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| Felipe Musco |
![]() Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 8:19 pm |
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Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 2434
Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
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--- description ---
Destroying creatures or lands, dominating the field, well, those may be nice, but what holds back a deck more than having no cards to draw?
--- end description ---
Destroying creatures or lands, dominating the field, well, those may be nice, but, what holds back a deck more than having no cards to draw?
After getting A LOT of nice ideas, I greatly altered the initial deck. Since they were "traumatizing" and "unthinkable" changes, I decided to repost the deck up here. Here’s how it is right now.
MAIN DECK
Watery Grave x4
Hallowed Fountain x4
Godless Shrine x4
Plains x3
Island x4
Dimir Signet x2
Orzhov Signet x2
Faith’s Fetters x4
Traumatize x2
Diabolic Tutor x2
Glimpse the Unthinkable x4
Infernal Tutor x4
Supply / Demand x2
Wrath of God x4
Mana Leak x4
Twincast x3
Dimir Infiltrator x4
Kami of False Hope x4
SIDEBOARD
Order of the Stars x4
Last Gasp x4
Mortify x4
Drift of Phantasms x3
"Ok, so I’ve got all those cards put together, how do I get this bad boy up and running?" you might be asking. Let’s get to business, then.
Lands - There’s only a total of 19 lands, which may seem like not enough, but since there’s also 4 signets, and the deck is actually quite cheap (4 to 6 mana, tops, and it’s playing since first turn).
Signets - Since there’s less black mana than the rest, I chose to add black signets. They’re also nice to surprise distracted oponent’s, since you can play a Mana Leak with only one land at the table. Signets also tend to speed thins up a bit, and to attract Putrefys and Mortifys onto them.
Faith’s Fetters - Great for board control, stopping main attackers, pains-in-the-neck and helping keep control after a Wrath. And since the duals are rather painful, a little extra life can’t hurt, so I chose Fetters over Pacifism, even if it is a little more expensive (but totally worth it, since blocking activated abilities is a GREAT help against some standard decks).
Traumatize - I’m only using two. They’re nice and all, but too expensive, and only good at the beggining of the game, and since they can be "twincast", there’s no need for more.
Diabolic Tutor - I was thinking about something that could transmute for Wrath, at first. I know, this would means HAVING a Wrath on turn 3/4 almost for sure, but I still decided to go with the Tutor, since for one more mana, you can get exactly just that combo lock which’s still missing from your hand (Glimpse, Twincast or Infernal Tutor, maybe Wrath, or even a land or signet). Also, this will help get Traumatize faster, should I stumble on it during the beggining.
Glimpse the Unthinkable - No comments needed. It’s cheap and it’s BAD. Just remember to try and "twincast" it, since I decided to remove Recollect from the deck.
Infernal Tutor - Very nice card! a cheap way to get more Glimpses and Twincasts. If there’s a chance to choose between them, though, go for the Twicast, since it’ll loose much of it’s effectiveness if left to be played with more expensive cards, like Traumatize (7 mana? Ouch!)
Supply/Demand - Forget Supply. Demand can get Glimpse faster, without having to transmute the Infiltrators, so they can be transmuted into Twincast (little confusing, isn’t it?). Also, Demand CAN fetch an Infiltrator, should you need some beef.
Wrath of God - Also dispenses commentaries. Absolute board control. I decided to use 3 of them, since I’m not using any Diabolic Tutors, and I decided to drop Clutch of the Undercity, which could be transmuted into Wrath.
Mana Leak - The only counterspell in the Main Deck. Should be used wisely, mainly to preserve your deck structure, or to help saving life points. And since Counterspell itself was not re-edited, it’s the best you can get in those grounds for only 2 mana.
Twincast - I was using 4 at first, but since it’s main use is to twincast Glimpse (but of course, if you CAN twincast Traumatize and it’s worth it, DO IT!), and Infernal Tutors and Dimir Infiltrators let me get them pretty fast and easily, a 3 to 4 basis is more than fine.
Dimir Infiltrator - 2 mana for some beef. Don’t even THINK about using it’s Infiltrate ability, since it could leave you wide open for, let’s say, a HUGE hasting Magnivore! However, the greatest use for the Infiltrators is their transmuting ability, which let’s you fetch Tutors, Twincasts, Glimpses and even Mana Leaks or Signets! (you should go for the Tutors first, if you’ll be able to use them accordingly. If not, try Twincast. Only go for Glimpse if you don’t have one in hand already).
Kami of False Hope - Very good card, even better than Will-o’-the-Wisp, since it can prevent ALL the damage you receive, with no need of an extra mana! Also, even if an opponent DO try to kill it, they’ll have to "waste" an instant (this if you DON’T counter it), since using a sorcery would only make you sacrifice him in response. Also, NEVER get more than ONE of these nice guys on the field, since you will waste them if an opponent plays a spell that affects all of your creatures. Sacrificing more than one of these does no good.
As for the sideboard, it’s wide open for whatever fits better for you. But let’s get to why I chose THESE cards.
Order of the Stars - Won’t even get into explaining why these guys are in, if you really want to know, read the posts, and feel free to take a shot at me, like everyone else (just kidding, critics are what makes a deck stronger and better built, for instance, this deck used to be green, instead of white).
Last Gasp - Last Gasp is a definitive way of dealing with tramplers, at least until Kami is out. It also saves you some turns before having to sacrifice Kami, and can stop most of the main threats in standard, if played fast enough.
Mortify - Kills creatures, kills signets. In resume, kills strategies. But since creatures hurt more than signets, and I already have 3 Wraths, I’m only sideboarding it.
Drift of Phantasms - Just useful if you REALLY need some blocking (but useful, notheless), since Wrath will kill it and there’s nothing he can transmute for. If creatures don’t tend to fly or trample a lot where you’re playing, then just drop it and add Order of the Stars.
This is the new deck structure, as I have dropped Green (but I still think Glimpse+Vulturous Zombie is NEAT, though), and you’ll see it’s a lot more playable than the last version (hope I get better reviews!  ). Thanks for everyone’s help, lot of nice ideas popping up here! Loved this site! Be sure you will be hearing from me a lot, here. 
Well, now all you have to do is assemble your decks, go for the hammering at your opponent’s library, and laugh your head off as they gloomly look those neat cards they’ve got being put into their graveyards faster than they can say "Duress"!!!  |
| Last edited by Felipe Musco on Thu May 25, 2006 5:43 pm; edited 4 times in totalI don't like YOU. |
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| Cobra |
![]() Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 3:41 pm |
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 1202
Location: Austin, TX, USA
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First off, welcome! Always great to see new writers in our Magic: the Gathering article contest, and I hope to read more from you in the future.
Some good ideas here, I especially like the Vulturous Zombie combo.
My main concern is simply all the early damage you’ll be taking. You have 1) not much protection against aggressive decks, and 2) lots of pain from your own cards. Either of those things I can roll with, but both together and it seems like you could be in trouble.
Maybe I’ve been reading La_Sin_Grail’s decks too much,  but what would happen if you basically played a  land base, with accelerators like Birds of Paradise, Utopia Sprawl, or Farseek to give you  and  ? That would take up a lot of deck space, but it would also remove the self-inflicted pain, speed things up so aggro is less threatening, and maybe allow for Carven Caryatid to sideboard in against aggro as well. |
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| Cleston |
![]() Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 5:53 pm |
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Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 110
Location: Brasil
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all your opponent would need is one or two hard to kill creatures... that plus your damage from lands should leave you in burn range quite often... psychic drain can save you a little life points, but it requires lots of mana to be reliable...
but I don’t like the idea of going green accelerator here.... I’d just use 4 drift of phantasms, perhaps cutting the dimir dopplegangers, because they’er also a bit slow, and once they get running you should have more than half of their library gone already... that, or a really huge vulturous zombie...
beside that, I do like the article, you take a 4 from me. keep them coming!  |
- "If I die, your deck will crumble!"
Gandalf (any of them) |
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| Felipe Musco |
![]() Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 6:11 pm |
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Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 2434
Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
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| I’d have to agree with Cleston. Drift of Phantasms REALLY seem good, and their Transmute ability also make them useful during any point of the game. And about the Psychic Drain, you may be right. I was thinking about switching it with Recollect, to take back my Glimpses, what do you think? |
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| Cleston |
![]() Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 6:41 pm |
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Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 110
Location: Brasil
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| Very nice, recollect for glimpse the unthinkable seems much more easy to do than a huge psychic drain... |
- "If I die, your deck will crumble!"
Gandalf (any of them) |
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| Arbitrary |
![]() Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 9:47 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 6
Location: TopdeckLand
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Hey there everyone. I’m new to this site but very enticed to winning for strategy
About this deck - which of the following are you trying to do here?
1 - mill the opponent to death
2 - swing with gigantic creatures for the win
3 - control the board by destroying everything
If you try to do all three at the same time, many games will be a conflict -- you can be a jack of all trades, but a master of none. Spending resources to both try to mill your opponent and get through with a big creature can only lead to disfocus from one goal. I’d drop at least one of the above to have a long-term game plan.
Will-o-the Wisp’s a bit too weak to be a major player, methinks. It is versatile, but you only have 4 in the deck and you’ll have to deal with keeping a black mana open every turn. You said yourself you cannot hope to lose out on mana - why strain your resources for such a weak card that cannot hope to compete with multiple attackers? |
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| Cobra |
![]() Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:24 pm |
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 1202
Location: Austin, TX, USA
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I do think there’s a place for Will-o’-the-Wisp here (and for Drift of Phantasms as well) to protect against early creature attacks.
But Arbitrary raises a good point -- this deck would be more solid if it were more focused. I would try concentrating on milling, and on surviving long enough for milling to be viable. For example:
IN:
Drift of Phantasms x4 (protection vs. aggro)
Traumatize x2 (great mill the first time it’s played)
Recollect x4 (get back Glimpse the Unthinkable)
OUT:
Plague Boiler x2 (doesn’t fit the mill theme as well)
Dimir Doppelganger x4 (ditto)
Szadek, Lord of Secrets x2 (tends to arrive late and leave early)
Perplex x2 (not very effective against aggro)
Just some thoughts, not totally sure if those are the optimal cards to switch out or even if that’s the direction you’d want to go, but it would help the deck be more focused on its primary method of winning. |
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| MythandManicle |
![]() Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 11:04 pm |
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Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 11
Location:
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I agree about the recollect and phantasms, and traumatize would be a great asset to the deck, but I’m here to bring up something else. You have 4 glimpses main and 2 tutors sideboard, but I was thinking you might want to add another way to get glimpse. After all, the tutors are sideboard, not relevant until game 2, so unless you want to move them maindeck you might consider adding Dimir Infiltrator or Muddle the Mixture to transmute. They can fetch Glimpse a turn earlier, and serve other purposes. After(the non-existent  ) traumatize, you still need to mill for 20 or so cards. Sure the transmuters are a little narrower than diabolic tutor, but you need to consistently get multiple glimpses. Such is my reason for this comment. Btw, cool deck, I like it.
EDIT: The title of the article is very misleading, seems like you’re about to look at a discard deck, not mill. |
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| Cobra |
![]() Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 11:46 pm |
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 1202
Location: Austin, TX, USA
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Ooh, Dimir Infiltrator is a great idea. If you need a cheap wall, he does that... if you need to grab a Glimpse the Unthinkable, he does that too!
This might be straying from Felipe’s goal for his deck, but I’m starting to wonder if basing the entire thing around Glimpse the Unthinkable would be a viable strategy. It’s fast, it’s efficient, we’ve got more and more ways to pull it and replay it, and five Glimpses basically wins the game.
(MythandManicle raises a valid point about the title as well... Felipe, you were playing our Magic: the Gathering Riddle Game, right? How about "Grinding Decks into Dust?"  ) |
| Last edited by Cobra on Fri May 19, 2006 11:54 pm; edited 3 times in totalhttp://cobracards.com -- Web's best deals on Trading Card Games. |
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| Felipe Musco |
![]() Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 11:52 pm |
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Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 2434
Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
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Well, so far, I made the following changes:
MAIN DECK:
Overgrown Tomb x4
Watery Grave x4
Llanowar Wastes x4
Underground River x4
Yavimaya Coast x4
Traumatize x2
Will-o’-the-Wisp x4
Drift of Phantasms x4
Circu, Dimir Lobotomist x2
Recollect x4
Glimpse the Unthinkable x4
Vulturous Zombie x4
Muddle the Mixture x2
Induce Paranoia x4
Clutch of the Undercity x4
Mana Leak x4
Dimir Infiltrator x2
SIDEBOARD:
Mindleech Mass x1
Moonlight Bargain x2
Vigor Mortis x4
Szadek, Lord of Secrets x1
Diabolic Tutor x2
Leyline of the Void x1
Putrefy x4
I added Muddle the Mixture AND Dimir Infiltrator (I may narrow down to just one of them, I don’t know, what do you think?), taking out Psychic Drain, which just consumed too much mana! Also, I added the Phantasms, I really WAS needing some protection (which is making me consider ruling out the Infiltrators), but didn’t take out the Wisps, they ARE a nice backup since they’re cheap, flying AND regenerate. It’s even worth keeping a spare black mana. As for Traumatize, THANKS COBRA! Now THAT’S a nice kicker! For the Sideboard, I switched out the Sisters, which were here only as a flavor, as I said, with a Szadek (using it at sideboard, since I won’t be able to use it quite often, as you guys said and I tested). I kept the Mindleech, ’cause it’s as I said: he’s only siding, not holding back the deck, and when put to good use, MAN this guy is DEVASTATING!
I’d like someone with a program to run some tests (I don’t have a Magic test program) and tell me what happened with this new structure.
Oh, and how’s that one for an Article Name? (In Brazil, we call Mill and Discard decks the same, that’s why I named my article that way, thanks for the tip!)
Oh, also, I really intend to play the Regionals with this deck, so I’d really appreciate simulations, if anyone could find it in their heart to spare the time to do me this favor, and also, I’m really learning with all your help and tips, keep’em coming! |
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