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Total Votes : 1
The First
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:47 am
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 195 Location: Anderlecht, Belgium
Ilvaldi wrote:
Compare your deck with a themed-guild deck:

Any deck w/ U will bounce, thus killing your hellbent and ridding you of potency.

Any deck w/ W will remove/fetter your threats.

Any deck w/ R will burn.

Any deck w/ B will kill.

Any deck w/ G...well...it doesn’t matter, G has UWRB.


That’s a bit too easy IMO. You forget blue’s counters btw.

Quote:

Your deck will kill if your opponent is unprepared for what is to come. However, considering spells like mortify, faith’s fetters, lightning helix, putrefy, loxodon hierarch, Azorious Herald, Ghost Council, Wrath of God, Devouring Light, Char, eye of nowhere, boomerang, even mark of eviction, you’ll have tough competition of killing your opponent.


4cc : fetters, hierarch, council, wrath
3cc : mortify, putrefy, herald, devouring light, char
2cc : helix, boomerang, eye

I begin dropping tough creatures from turn 2 AND I have 27 creatures in my deck. You have 27 removal in your deck? Or get at least 3 removal cards to deal with thoughness 3 creatures?

Quote:

Sure, you’ve got Rusalka to prevent spells such as fetters and helix triggering life gain, but you’ve still given your opponent an answer to your creature threats. Not to mention, wouldn’t your opponent be smart enough to target your Rusalka first so you’ll have to sac it?


Fetters = means that you can’t play anything else this turn most likely. You count on the 4 life gain. If I sac the targetted creature, that -1 instead of +4. And I get 1 turn for free. If they target my Rusalka, that means that my bigger creatures all get another free turn to attack. Plz, do target my Rusalka.

Most players are smart enough to not play the Fetters while Rusalka is out, unless they have no other choice.

Quote:

Ghost council may not allow quicker life gain, but it’ll slow down your tempo of beatdown. Thus, giving your opponent more time to answer to your threats. And, if it’s Ghost Council, expect your opponent to throw stuff like shining shoal and sickening shoal as well as mortify.


Yeah, Ghost Council is good. I have some experience as to how to deal with a Council since my friend has played Orzhov since Guildpact. Throw a Char at the Council and most of the time, he’ll lose 2 blockers. He can be a pain, but with the right tools, he isn’t THAT though.

Shoal either means that I regain some card advantage or that it will come very late in the game (turn 5 at best). But, yes, removal isn’t pleasant.

Quote:

How about this scenario:

Opponent (turn 1): hallowed fountain tapped.

Opponent (turn 2): plains and a Howling mine.

Opponent (turn 3): plain and a Paladin en-Vec, blocks whatever threat you have w/ it.

Opponent (turn 4): worship. Game over.


I’d say that’s not bad. But what’s any Black, Red, Rakdos, Gruul deck going to against it? Gruul might be able to destroy the worship, but it may already be to late (10x Paladin = gg). I could add Quicksand to deal with an attacking Paladin.

Quote:

Now, on turn 3, you may out an Avatar of discord and beat your opponent for 5, along w/ your rusalka and drekavac to put as much emphasis on the beat down as possible, but most likely, your drekavac will get blocked both times and your opponent will have taken 18 damage at the most. Thus, you will be too late to successfully stop your opponent even at the fastest speed.


With such a God hand, who would.

Quote:

Furthermore, the howling mine will kill the hellbent you have.


I play with Dark Confidant myself. 1 Howling mine most defenately doesn’t mean no Hellbent.

Quote:

Now, an answer to this would be something like a "lose life" spell.


Yes, indeed.
Quote:

Rain of gore may help your cause in crushing opponents who play life gaing spells and may even pin them from playing stuff like hierarch, fetters, or helix. Hmm, so instead of asituation in which your opponent jumps from 4 to 8 life and stops a creature threat, your opponent can’t do anything but pass his turn cause he knows his spells will be the cause of his downfall.


Good idea. Still, doesn’t help with the previous scenario. The Orzhov Guildmage does however. But is it a good idea to sb it?

Quote:

(P.S. the "opponent" was Osion w/ his standard U/W howling mine deck that crushed my extended red deck which had lightning bolt, chain lightning, incinerate, and fireblast.)


Nice deck. 4th turn game-over, lol.

~ The First
Ilvaldi
Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:17 am
Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 59 Location:
Quote:
Most players are smart enough to not play the Fetters while Rusalka is out, unless they have no other choice.


Of course, I’m not saying that! I’m talking about other spells like shock and helix which would be played at the end of your turn. On your opponent’s turn, he’ll play fetters.

Quote:
I begin dropping tough creatures from turn 2 AND I have 27 creatures in my deck. You have 27 removal in your deck? Or get at least 3 removal cards to deal with thoughness 3 creatures?


If you consider 1 removal per creature, sure. But WoG will definetly take out more than just one. W/that in mind, by then, you’ll have depleted your onslaught because you’ve hellbented your cards away and must now rely on serious top-decking.

These cards aren’t meant to stop all of your creatures, they’re here to slow you down long enough so the real threats could come out like vore, meloku, kumano, kokusho, firemane, yosei, and dovescape.

Quote:
I play with Dark Confidant myself. 1 Howling mine most defenately doesn’t mean no Hellbent.


Well, I can’t blame your for not knowing, but Osion overabuses his howling mine deck with a different strategy: deck your opponent.

He’ll play spells such as walking archive, kami of the crescent moon, mikokoro, center of the sea, and nonetheless, howling mine. Your dark Confidant will only contribute to his cause.
La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:48 am
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
Osion’s "Howling Mine" deck has quotes around it for a reason. It’s really U/W Worship control with lots and lots of decking. Anyways, I don’t think you can really win if you play avatar of discord against any deck with Blue (bounce), red (burn), or black (Last gasp) because you’ll be paying three cards for one!

I’ve been working on a U/G powerbeat deck that absolutely DEMOLISHES this because it’s so easy to get a turn three kodama of the north tree. Also, WoG is a consideration, and blowing up the o-naginata. Why would poppet ever be good? If you have hellbent, he’s burning-tree shaman without the ability...
The First
Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:16 pm
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 195 Location: Anderlecht, Belgium
La_Sin_Grail wrote:
Osion’s "Howling Mine" deck has quotes around it for a reason. It’s really U/W Worship control with lots and lots of decking. Anyways, I don’t think you can really win if you play avatar of discord against any deck with Blue (bounce), red (burn), or black (Last gasp) because you’ll be paying three cards for one!


Didn’t I say that I only play it when I think he’s useful? Not every blue deck has bounce. Red decks... that’s very specific. Which red deck? Mono-red isn’t aggro enough to beat this deck for instance. Same goes for Black. Take any deck. I’ll find a card that this particular deck will have problems with.

Quote:

I’ve been working on a U/G powerbeat deck that absolutely DEMOLISHES this because it’s so easy to get a turn three kodama of the north tree. Also, WoG is a consideration, and blowing up the o-naginata. Why would poppet ever be good? If you have hellbent, he’s burning-tree shaman without the ability...


You’re saying that YOUR deck will demolish mine because you get a KotNT out on turn tree... Sorry but that sounds rediculous. Sure, he’ll give me a hard time. But hardly an autoloss.

Fact is that BTS would be played even without his gametext. Same goes for Poppet. He’s good. His gametext makes him better.

WoG is a consideration for every aggro deck. That’s also why you have a sideboard. In this case, the sideboard would requirre more burn like Flames, maybe (not again) Demonfire. But I know very well that this deck will probably loose to a GWB control or Husk deck. But there are many decks facing the same scenario of doom.
The First
Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:23 pm
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 195 Location: Anderlecht, Belgium
Ilvaldi wrote:

Well, I can’t blame your for not knowing, but Osion overabuses his howling mine deck with a different strategy: deck your opponent.

He’ll play spells such as walking archive, kami of the crescent moon, mikokoro, center of the sea, and nonetheless, howling mine. Your dark Confidant will only contribute to his cause.


As if I would be stupid enough to play a Dark Confidant against Howling Mine. The Avatar might prove to be very useful against such a deck.

Not to be rude, but aren’t aggro decks supposed to be Owl’s worst match-up?
La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 9:57 pm
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
I think you’re missing the point. You see, discarding cards IS BAD! Unless you have some card like rakdos pit dragon that is a win condition only with hellbent, avatar of discord will not help you. Ever.

Fetters, Wog- white
Bounce of any kind- Blue
char, volc. hammer etc. red
Last Gasp- Black

Putrefy, Mortify- Gold

I just don’t think you’ll win getting a 1 for three. As for poppet, I think he’s good only if you’ve dumped your entire hand, which is unlikely on turn four especially with confidant, but I can understand why he would be here. Avatar just plain isn’t worth it unless you’re playing against a TOTAL fish, in which case you win anyway.
The First
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:13 am
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 195 Location: Anderlecht, Belgium
Actually, the Avatar HAS helped me before, otherwise he wouldn’t be in this deck. I do understand that discarding 2 cards to play 1 creature is bad if you know he’ll be gone next turn.

Most people I play against use their kill spells against turn 2 creatures like the rats and Drekavac. They often lack removal when my avatar comes out. If they don’t draw another removal card in the next 2-3 turns, it is gg. If they hold on to their removal, I often play my other creatures and ditch the avatar.

But like I said, I don’t always play him. I’ll probably drop the number to 2.

I think that the Poppet is great. By the time he comes out and he’s dealt damage, I should’ve played my best spells -or most efficient ones- and unless I draw two land cards (with Confi out), I’m able to keep hellbent.
La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:10 pm
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
Yeah, perhaps two avatar of discord could work... but drawing two would be very bad.

Consider adding lava spike to get rid of cards faster before poppet makes you dump them? If you play him turn three and they burn him, you’re in trouble.

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