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Total Votes : 7 |
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| ure_d_best |
![]() Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:26 pm |
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Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 43
Location: Kelowna, BC
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Grail, I think Keiga will help as well but not much, Vore decks have bounce cards Boomerang and Eye of Nowhere, with losing tempo still hard for the win. It is also the pyroclasm as another problem besides wildfire.
I still don’t get it though why you have 62 cards deck and have 25 lands in it? I don’t see any good decks in the T8 where there are more than 60 cards, specially 2 extra cards. Please provide input on this so we understand.
Come to think what we can add against Vore to this deck, may be splash black for Cranial Extraction or if you prefer not to splash black, we can try Jester’s cap. This is to remove the Vore threats. |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
![]() Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:03 pm |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Maryland
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First off, it looks to me like there are (4*7)+(3*3)=37 cards that aren’t land, and (4*2)+(2*6)+3=23 land, totalling 60 cards. I know I use odd counts of things, which can be confusing.
As for wildfires, I meant the tron wildfires build that got more T2s than Vore, despite a couple less T4s (according to the article from the official wizards website entitled "The 2006 Regionals Wrapup). Against vore, I just plain win. The basic concept of vore is an old concept- a quick stasis. However, with birds of paradise etc., I eliminate this stasis by having more than one mana source available for myself, despite their best efforts, even when they play first.
Clasm isn’t much of an issue because if they are casting pyroclasm, they’re either not bouncing one of my lands (eliminating any possibility of stasis) or it’s too late for me to care.
Honestly, any deck with 4 birds of paradise AND 4 llanowar elves can tear Vore apart in a matter of seconds. Vore beats decks without many or any one drops, but falls against those with one-mana accelerators. Go try this against a vore build, I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised. |
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| Felipe Musco |
![]() Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:58 pm |
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Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 2434
Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
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| Yeah, Grail is quite correct about this. I played R/G Vore, which IS a bit more about burning creatures than creating stasis, and I beat a G deck with one-drop accelerators, ’cause it had ahorrible "operator", but I saw I’d have had trouble against a good player. |
| I don't like YOU. |
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| ure_d_best |
![]() Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:50 pm |
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Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 43
Location: Kelowna, BC
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La_Sin_Grail wrote: First off, it looks to me like there are (4*7)+(3*3)=37 cards that aren’t land, and (4*2)+(2*6)+3=23 land, totalling 60 cards. I know I use odd counts of things, which can be confusing.
Sorry Grail, but I believe you are not being honest here. Your land before has 8 forest and 6 island, now when you look at your initial post of the article has been edited to show 6 forest. You could have just explained that it should be 6 forest not meant to 8 forest. So explaining it by (2*6) now and edited your original post is disappointing and |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
![]() Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:51 pm |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Maryland
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Erm... I’m not sure that’s applicable to this particular situation, but thanks for the vote of confidence.
My point is, even on the go, vore plays like this (on a good hand):
O= opponent, M=me, T=turn
T1O: Island
T1M: Forest, BoP
T2O: Island, Bounce a land
T2M: land, pass the turn (waiting to leak/remand their spell)
T3O: Stone rain/bounce another land/find some other way to deny me resources, which gets countered
T3M: Land, more mana accel (Elder, Llanowar, Bop, etc.) Hopefully another counterspell in hand. If not, Kudzu.
T4O: Annex (hopefully countered)
T4M: I have 4-5 mana. Click the own face button. Turn four, they lose the point of their deck if I can have even three mana this early.
On their draw, it’s not even funny. |
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| ure_d_best |
![]() Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:25 am |
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Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 43
Location: Kelowna, BC
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I think it is necessary. This posting here is Strategy Article Contest and as reader we rate the article and by doing so, I ask simple question why there are 62 cards to understand your deck design. But you were dishonest in your response, edited your original post and say something different.
Sorry to say, but this is contest where you are posting article and being dishonest is what is unnecessary here and manipulating the original posting instead answering a question. |
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| Felipe Musco |
![]() Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:19 am |
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Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 2434
Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
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| Hey, hey, someone is in a bad mood ’round here... Ok, so he didn’t count the lands right, that happens. Maybe, he typed them in wrong, who knows? I’m sure this didn’t lift up the grade, most of us had voted before. But I guess you made your point, and that’s what counts, if Grail did type in the wrong numbers (I didn’t notice it, sorry), he could just have said "sorry, edited the main post". But we DO have the option to alter ALL of our posts, INCLUDING the first one, for a reason... And about my post, what I meant is that my deck has a different way of playing. I simply destroy some lands, and then whack every creature with Pyroclasm or Savage Twister, ’till I have resources for a worthy Wildfire, so stalling early play is not THAT necessary. But, even though, decks with accelerators CAN be dangerous. BTW, I think my R/G vore would be a pretty solid deck if I added in Birds instead or Llanowars, and some Boseiju, Who Shelters All... |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
![]() Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:44 am |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
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Location: Maryland
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Thsi matter was fixed when a friend of mine told me about it a little while back.
So I miscounted lands. And?
Doesn’t really affect anything. None of you bothered to make the deck, I’d bet, so I can’t feel bad about making you find two islands, and I played it in testing with 6 and 6. Becuase I tested it with 6 and 6, I had to change it so people would not read the wrong results.
Um... I suppose I should apologize for my typo that I now fixed? I’m sorry I hit the wrong key, I guess. I was not dishonest. In the deck I made, there were 60 cards. If I hit a typing error, I hit a typing error. Dishonesty would have been to intentionally post something I hadn’t tested and say I had. When I found it was different from the deck I had played, I quickly fixed it. I wouldn’t want people from this site running around making 62 card decks because they think it’s better (although I have heard theories about how 62 is a better number for something with the probabilities if you play 24 land, but I’m not getting into that because while it may yield a better opening hand, the probabilities are worse that you find what you need on the draws) from a typo I made.
I wasn’t trying to rag on Fungus Fires or it’s variants (Apparently G/R vore is a popular one now), I was just meaning that it’s a very different deck. |
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| ure_d_best |
![]() Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:42 pm |
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Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 43
Location: Kelowna, BC
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I’m okay with it. All I ask is please answer the question directly instead of saying something different.
Back to Vore topic against U/G beats, do you think Cranial Extraction or Jester’s Cap will help against Vore decks? |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
![]() Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:37 pm |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Maryland
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Um.... in general, splashing another color for one matchup isn’t that great of an idea, so I’d rather stay away from that. For jester’s cap, this is an agro deck, and paying 6 mana for a little ability that will not affect their hand or board isn’t going to work for me.
I would like to seriously suggest you play some against vore to see the one-drop accelerators do their stuff. It’s pretty sick- the one-drops eliminate the effectiveness of the bounce land and kill land spells, leaving me plenty of options with which I can swing away early game. |
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