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Total Votes : 8 |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
![]() Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:36 pm |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Maryland
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It’s just fragile is I guess what me (and I think others) are trying to say. It just relies a lot on getting teysa and not having her eliminated, including fetters, devouring light etc.
It also seems a little slow for my personal tastes, with a little too much emphasis on them not having removal. |
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| Ilvaldi |
![]() Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:43 am |
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Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 59
Location:
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I would have to agree with Grail and the First. All you have is removal and no great win condition. You emphasize alot on defensive strategy. Though, in my opinion, I don’t think your deck is that fragile. It looks like you have many combos to work with so you should be able to work with something in your opening hand and your later draws.
I suggest that you find a win condition for that deck. Some decks aren’t designed for beat down emphasis and so your removal spells would go to waste. |
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| Memnarch Mastermind |
![]() Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:15 pm |
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 49
Location: Bochum/Germany
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Hmm... yes, all your comments are right in a way, but:
-this deck was designed within 10 min to have a deck to play against
-this is not a deck fit for tournament but for casual playing 
-there is indeed a lack of heavy kill options, nevertheless it did do its job fine the way it was designed for(and I suggest it won’t do much more  )
-I thought I print it here because I like the idea with Teysa and mind bend
-it offers also a perspective for the new MtG character Zur the Enchanter when some more enchantments are added in(e.g.Magemarks)
So I also know that no one will probably play this deck because I won’t do it either, but you have to admit it is somehow a cool touch to remove hundrets of beasts without even paying a single mana 
As I said: This is just a fun deck... a deck that makes fun. 
Please don’t tell me it’s bad against many decktypes... it’s worse than that so I really enjoy your professional opinion on this but it is really not necessary. Thank you all anyway! Good analysis! |
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| Ilvaldi |
![]() Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:47 pm |
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Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 59
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Sorry if you feel that way, but I’m not really comparing this deck to tourney types. I’m comparing it to players who want to have fun in MTG. If say you play this deck in a fun multiplayer casual game. Two things will happen:
1) They pick on you. You’re screwin somebody over with your removal.
2) They don’t pick on you. You are of no threat to them and probably your removal isn’t either which means you pretty much have dead cards in your hand.
You see, the idea sounds like fun on paper, but who really likes removal (esp. the victims)? You may be having fun, but other players can get pretty p.o. with the whole removing and stuff. I had a deck like with what? 20 removal and that really pissed a bunch of guys off. Most likely, if this is not happening, you’ll probably be someone’s bitch in a multiplayer game where some guy goes, "hey bitch! remove that piece of s*** off the board! It’s pissing me off!" And no one likes to be someone’s bitch in a multiplayer game.
You may have considered this fun, and it really is fun in my standards for a single 1-on-1 match, but it won’t be in a multiplayer one where you’ll have to do some diplomacy around other players or you’ll wind up taking commands and removing crap.
Try comming up with some win strategy that is creative for this deck. I really don’t care if it doesn’t appease to tourney decks, but it needs to havc something that is fun-active rather fun-defensive.
An example:
Darksteel Colossus + Worldslayer +multiplayer match w/ 9 players =  |
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| Felipe Musco |
![]() Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:21 am |
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Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 2434
Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
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I think the guys are right, I mean, even if it’s a casual deck, it’s no fun to have a deck that simply stalls a game, it gets really boring, for BOTH players! This guy here had a monoblue deck, filled with only the best counterspells and countering strategies, and 4 copies of a card that shuffled some graveyard back. So what did he do? He simply countered every single spell you tried to play, ’till you decked out!  Talk about annoying! I guess the main point here is: whether or not this is a casual deck, it IS fun to "casually" WIN matches, and decks like this CAN become tournament ones, who knows, you might have discovered the next big standard combo, combining those cards with Coldsnap! But in order to check that, you’d have to tweak your deck up a bit. I mean, my New Goblin Grenade deck is not tournament material (heck, it’s not even FNM material!), but I still tweak it once in a while, and the guys here DID post me some feedback on it, so it could become stronger, and I’m building a new version of it on Apprentice right now. So try to mess around with it a little, try some win conditions, like Nantuko Husk and/or Fallen Angel, to see what happens. Since you’ll be able to clear the board of blockers easily, and ALWAYS have pumps for your creatures, who knows, this deck can become pretty damn strong! Maybe some Worship copies, and/or Promise of Bunrei would help speed up things/keep you alive long enough to get your combo out. Also, I think some Exhaustion might help keep you alive...
Other than that, I really liked the combo, good thinking and exploring! If you polish the deck a little, and it becomes nice (yeah, I could do this on my own on Apprentice, but I think it’s part of the Author’s "job"), I’ll cast my vote, which will probably revolve ’round 4/5! |
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| Memnarch Mastermind |
![]() Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:51 am |
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 49
Location: Bochum/Germany
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Ilvaldi wrote:
You see, the idea sounds like fun on paper, but who really likes removal (esp. the victims)? You may be having fun, but other players can get pretty p.o. with the whole removing and stuff. I had a deck like with what? 20 removal and that really pissed a bunch of guys off. Most likely, if this is not happening, you’ll probably be someone’s bitch in a multiplayer game where some guy goes, "hey bitch! remove that piece of s*** off the board! It’s pissing me off!" And no one likes to be someone’s bitch in a multiplayer game. 
Ok, I am having fun with removal and this shortens the game pretty much, so if I am going to my friend an he’s got a deck with dozens of creatures, what speaks against it to play a deck like this?Does it not make fun to have a working mechanism IMO.
And the multiplayer-thing isn’t correct after all. No one’s a bitch, as Ilvaldi says. You can wipe everything from the table, and I don’t thing your opponents built decks that make you feel comfortable.
There isn’t anything like diplomacy in magic, and it would be foolish to show mercy. It is a game, and every player wants to win(I shouldn’t remeber you of that!) |
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| Memnarch Mastermind |
![]() Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:37 pm |
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 49
Location: Bochum/Germany
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Improved decklist
Creatures = 18 cards
2x Teysa, Orzhov Scion
4x Order of the Stars
4x Martyred Rusalka
2x Nantuko husk
4x Fallen angel
2x Ghost council of orzhova 
Instant/ sorcery = 22
4x Mind Bend
4x Devouring Light
3x Condemn
4x Mana Leak
4x Remand
3x supply / demand(search teysa)
Lands = 24
4 x Watery Grave
3 x Godless Shrine
3 x Hallowed Fountain
5 x plains
5 x swamp
4 x island
Sideboard
4x Trial / Error
4x Leyline of the Void
4 x Valor Made Real
3 x Shielding Plax
Against many creatures(like agro or whatever)
-4 Remand
-4 Mana leak
+4 trial / error
+4 valor made real |
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| Ilvaldi |
![]() Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:42 pm |
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Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 59
Location:
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Well if you’re having fun, go ahead, be my guest. I’m just stating from my past experience with multiplayer matches. If you like your deck this way, then I don’t really have I problem. I’m just making suggestions. 
Hmm, your veiwpoint on multi MTG is quite intriguing though. You speak of it as not of diplomacy but rather a FFA beatdown session. I guess I could be wrong since I use my red burn in most FFA multiplayer matches and you can guess how compatible burn is to multiplayer games. Not good. NOT GOOD AT ALL. So that’s where I put diplomacy into action. But consider this:
In a 4 FFA game, YOU are being ganged because Spike coerces Timmy to gang up and forces Johnny to participate because if he doesn’t, Spike will play his little shock and get rid of what’s left of Johnny’s life total. Did I mention Spike is using a burn deck?
Now this is the thing that diplomacy does to players. It can change the way people play in the games and allows the underdogs to rise on top. Sure you’ve got stuff to stop an onslaught of creatures, but what are you gonna do when Spike is blowing away your creatures, Johnny is countering your spells, and Timmy, the greatest newb of all, is pwning you!
Anthony Alongi wrote some articles that talks about multiplayer sessions on the official Magic The Gathering website, and he agrees that there is at least some shred of diplomacy in MTG games. Some could be small, and some could be like the bitchy kinds where players manipulate the newbs to gain better advantage.
You can have alot of removal, but in some cases, brains are better than brawns. Don’t underestimate diplomacy in MTG. |
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| Felipe Musco |
![]() Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:06 pm |
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Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 2434
Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
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| 4 Fallen Angel and 2 Nantuko Husk? Why?!? I don’t get this... |
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| BrianBoitano |
![]() Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:42 pm |
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 124
Location: Houston, TX
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Okay, I’ve been watching this discussion and I finally think I have something constructive to add
I agree with Felipe and Ilvaldi about the basic problem with your original decklist, in that removal alone will not win any games. Whether or not it will annoy other players depends largely on what kind of game they are interested in. In the spirit of "There’s an exception to every rule", some players might like playing against a deck built around removing creatures and a slow win condition, but I think we can improve this deck so that you don’t have to depend on playing these players.
My suggestion for this deck is to pull slightly away from the (I admit, fun) Teysa combo, and instead focus on making each peice more worthwhile with the other pieces, so that if you just can’t get Teysa out or if you get targeted by Cranial Extraction, your deck will still survive.
To do this, I say you should consider the card that just begs to be put in here: Twilight Drover. If you make the right kind of changes, this deck could become much more fun all-around, as an opponent wouldn’t mind so much losing to such an underused card. The Drover does two things for your deck: sets up a kind of sacrificing engine, and is a win condition if you get your Teysa combo out. So to fit in the Drover, I suggest you drop the Nantuko Husk and Fallen Angel (Their sacrificing ability is off-flavor and in contest with Teysa for your deck), in favor of Twilight Drover and Belfry Spirit. I think dropping down to 2 Teysa in favor of Supply / Demand was a bit odd, since the only other target for it is the Ghost Council. Speaking of which, I would like to say that although it is a great engine in itself, the Ghost Council needs support that it can only take from Teysa, in addition to its very difficult 4 colored mana cost! I also feel that Martyred Rusalka is a tad too limited as a sacrificing source, I suggest Thoughtpicker Witch, which can be more effective in some circumstances and is easier to activate.
So here’s what I suggest, with the goal to diversify your deck but still keep the general theme:
-4 Fallen Angel
-2 Nantuko Husk
-2 Ghost Council of Orzhova
-4 Martyred Rusalka
+2 Teysa, Orzhov Scion
+4 Twilight Drover
+2 Belfry Spirit
+4 Thoughtpicker Witch
This is a lot of change, and Thoughtpicker Witch might be a step in the wrong direction in terms of being fun for your opponent. Still, I feel that this is worth a try, since this helps your curve a bit and adds stability. |
"Not again" -Hans
Hello kind Sir or Madam, I am a polite sig virus. Please put me into your fine and dandy signature so that I might continue to replicate. Thank you for your time. |
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