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Total Votes : 5
Silver Sniper
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:29 am
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 Posts: 13 Location:
inresponse wrote:
I’ll have to try it out on work station, seems pretty good though!


What’s workstation? Also, great article, loved it. Especially the play testing. Good work.
The First
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:05 am
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 195 Location: Anderlecht, Belgium
Quote:

Instant Izzet- Decklist

8 Mountain
4 Steam Vents
8 Island
2 Shivan Reef

4 Reach Through Mists
4 Electrolyze
4 Compulsive Research
2 Shattering Spree
2 Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
4 Volcanic Hammer
2 Izzet Signet
4 Shock
4 Wee Dragonauts
4 Gelectrode
4 Lava Spike

Sideboard- 2 shattering spree
4 Unnatural speed
4 Drift of Phantasms
1 Convolute
4 Mana Leak


Looks pretty good. I only have doubts about that Unnatural Speed. When or why would you want to cast it? From GP alone, there are 2 1cc that are more useful being Gigadrowse (how cool is this card?) and Quicken.

I also have doubts about that 1 Convolute. Hinder is a lot more useful against Grave-Shell Scarab and co. But 1 card isn’t going to make such a difference.

What about Telling Time instead of Compulsive Research? I know that TT doesn’t work with Niv but since you only have 2 copies.

Last thing: why only 2 signets? I read that they helped you in 1 game. Are they consistent/useful enough to keep? Would you go to 4 signets if you could to increase speed (as a Dragonaut can be quite deadly early game with enough cheap spells).

Quote:

Matchups:

WwR- This is one of the best matchups you have. A turn three gelectrode kills off flyers, and with a turn four shock, you can take out three creatures in one blow. All you need to do is be careful they never get a jitted creature to deal damage, so save a burn spell in case. Wait until they enter declare attackers phase and kill the creature asap with shock, electrolyze, or gelectrode. Or a combination of them.


What about Isamaru? Or if they put down an anthem? Or all the removal (Helix, Shock, Devouring Light)? If they kill your Gelectrode, or if you don’t get one fast enough, they might outrace you.

They have about the same number of removal spells to take out your set of 4 Gelectrodes (and maybe Dragos even though they are blockable)... while they have a lot more creatures than you have.

Quote:

The Zoo (W/R/G Agro)- Although there are many variants of the zoo floating around, they all have a few unifying characteristics. First, they all play kird ape. Second, they all have many one drops, namely suntail hawk and lantern kami to compliment the apes. One drops are easily shot down by this deck, with the only problem being kird ape. Either wait for a dragonaut or volcanic hammer apes if they play a mountain before he starts hurting.


What about Burning-Tree Shaman? You don’t mention him but he could really mess with your deck. Silhana Ledgewalker (even though not is Zoo but still in my GR aggro) is a big problem for your deck. Even worse if she gets her Moldervine Cloack or Jitte turn 3 or 4.

I think you could use some Mana Leaks (or counters in general) main deck to protect your creatures. Most decks have plenty removal MD. Also, what do you do against Cranial Extraction?

I have a UR pinger deck myself (which I wanted to post but it still needs some playtesting + finetuning). I don’t use the Dragonauts and play most spells during my opponent’s turn. And yes, I use plenty of counters to protect my Gelectrodes.

- The First
inresponse
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:26 pm
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 162 Location:
so I just play tested this deck, and things haven’t gone as I expected. Wee dragonauts never lives for mroe than one attack, gelectrode does 2 or maybe 3 points of damage before dieing, and niv mizzet isn’t abl;e to carry a game home by himself. I lost to the jankiest decks I have ever played against on magic workstation. One guy had petrified woodkin and that terrible wurm from guildpact and kicked my butt. I thought this deck looked good, but it’s proving to be worse than I expected.
bungietech
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:42 pm
Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 7 Location:
The First has some very good points.

Inresponse, I agree that the synergy between the deck seems dependent on two very frail creatures.
La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:48 pm
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
inresponse wrote:
so I just play tested this deck, and things haven’t gone as I expected. Wee dragonauts never lives for mroe than one attack, gelectrode does 2 or maybe 3 points of damage before dieing, and niv mizzet isn’t abl;e to carry a game home by himself. I lost to the jankiest decks I have ever played against on magic workstation. One guy had petrified woodkin and that terrible wurm from guildpact and kicked my butt. I thought this deck looked good, but it’s proving to be worse than I expected.


A couple questions. First off, how many games did you test?

Second off, did you pretect your guys? You should always burn off their flyers before beating with dragonaut. This deck is a lot about how you play it, which is why my first question is relevant. It takes time just practicing to get the hand of it. If they’ve lasted long enough for a wood kin, you’ve made a mistake already. The deck runs smoothly when you burn flyers and beat, or control their board with gelectrode.

EDIT: In more clear terms, you can’t just pick up the deck and start playing. I almost dropped this idea when I started out losing, but slowly you learn how to win with it. If you try testing ten more games, I’d bet you a) win more and b) like it more.
La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:03 pm
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
Ok, some very good points. Speed is in for white weenie and zoo. I want to kill a birds of paradise or savannah lion as soon as I can, and played this allows gelectrode to do so.

I use compulsive research because it plain gets me two cards. My thought process is that I get two net cards with research and one with telling time. Considering all of the cheaper cards I have in my deck (shock etc.) I’m more likely to be able to play more spells, and play them faster if I draw two. The card to bottom of library is a land most times, anyway, so I might as well just discard it.

I suppose hinder could work over convolute, I just worry about transmute against BoW... also convo is less color intensive. Still, I suppose it’s worth investigation.

As for WWr, a build typically won’t run twelve copies of removal and anthem and jitte (this leaves only 20 creatures or less, making anthem not to maximum effectiveness). Light has nothing to do with gelectrode, anyway. My response to everything in the matchup except jitte is to ping. Jitte I shattering spree. Pinging and burning is incredible here. Remember that I only test one specific build of each archtype. The build I tested in Wwr was more creature riented than burn (ran 4 helix, 2 char as burn), and at the rate I draw cards, ten creatures to six burn will end up in my favor. Also, Isamaru without anthem takes a shock. With anthem, he’s a ping and a shock, untapping gelectrode. There’s really not much difference there...

As I’ve stated above, you need to think about things from the standpoint of I play a lot of burn. In response to moldervine cloak, I kill the creature. when they dredge it, I’ll wait and kill the creature in response to them playing it again. I burn burning-tree shaman with ping/shock/electrolyze/hammer just like anything else.

I don’t play counterspells maindeck because I really don’t like playing spells during their turn. It means dragonaut is useless (can’t use the buff much). I suppose I should run a couple copues, but there’s nothing worth cutting. I need the burn so I can headshot fast if necessary (usually possible turn 5-6 for 20), and I ran out of gas without the draw spells. I can’t remove mizzets because they are extra creatures, and the signets are so good I almost regret not having a full playset.

Last thing- why isn’t this pure ping?- I want to tap out to play gelectrode on turn three, plain and simple. I don’t want to wait even longer so I can have a counterspell to back him up, it just doesn’t do anything for me. That makes the first turn isamaru too phat to handle.
inresponse
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:05 pm
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 162 Location:
I played over fifteen games, against a variety of decks. I’ve had a lot of experience play testing this deck because I did a lot of playtesting with a version I built fromt he guildpact spoiler. My Dragonauts were never blocked, they just ran into mortfiy, putrefy, last gasp, or a bounce spell once they had been pumped. I ended up using gelectrode as a blocker most times just to stay alive.
The First
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:00 pm
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 195 Location: Anderlecht, Belgium
La_Sin_Grail wrote:

Ok, some very good points. Speed is in for white weenie and zoo. I want to kill a birds of paradise or savannah lion as soon as I can, and played this allows gelectrode to do so.


You’ll have to wait ’till turn 4 to play the Speed + Gelectrode just to kill that Lion and leave your defense wide open (which is always the case with this deck btw.). The Birds probably won’t matter anymore by turn 4.

IMO there are other, more useful cards to cast. This card becomes a dead card mid-late game because of the low creature count.

It’s your deck but I, personally, don’t like the speed in here.

Quote:

As for WWr, a build typically won’t run twelve copies of removal and anthem and jitte (this leaves only 20 creatures or less, making anthem not to maximum effectiveness). Light has nothing to do with gelectrode, anyway. My response to everything in the matchup except jitte is to ping. Jitte I shattering spree. Pinging and burning is incredible here. Remember that I only test one specific build of each archtype. The build I tested in Wwr was more creature riented than burn (ran 4 helix, 2 char as burn), and at the rate I draw cards, ten creatures to six burn will end up in my favor. Also, Isamaru without anthem takes a shock. With anthem, he’s a ping and a shock, untapping gelectrode. There’s really not much difference there...


You could be right about your burn spells handling the creatures but I don’t think that those Gelectrodes/Dragonauts will stay around for long. At least not against my WWr build.

And if you use most of your burn spells against the creatures, I would like to know how you are planning to win the game.

Seems like a fun playtest idea. Will probably test both decks against each other tomorrow.

Quote:

As I’ve stated above, you need to think about things from the standpoint of I play a lot of burn. In response to moldervine cloak, I kill the creature. when they dredge it, I’ll wait and kill the creature in response to them playing it again. I burn burning-tree shaman with ping/shock/electrolyze/hammer just like anything else.


there you go. The magical word that kept the Dragonauts out of my pinger deck; "in response".

Quote:

I don’t play counterspells maindeck because I really don’t like playing spells during their turn. It means dragonaut is useless (can’t use the buff much). I suppose I should run a couple copues, but there’s nothing worth cutting. I need the burn so I can headshot fast if necessary (usually possible turn 5-6 for 20), and I ran out of gas without the draw spells. I can’t remove mizzets because they are extra creatures, and the signets are so good I almost regret not having a full playset.


Your deck would be that more versatile/efficient if you dropped the dragonauts and went for a pinger deck that plays burn and counters in response to the opponent’s actions. But I’ll try the deck tomorrow because a deck doesn’t always work the way you expect it to.

Quote:

Last thing- why isn’t this pure ping?- I want to tap out to play gelectrode on turn three, plain and simple. I don’t want to wait even longer so I can have a counterspell to back him up, it just doesn’t do anything for me. That makes the first turn isamaru too phat to handle.


The first Isamaru dies to shock or Electrolyse at eot?
La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:23 pm
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
Turn four? No. I have signet.

As for burning creatures and still planning to win the game, my idea is that I can pump dragonauts every time I burn a creature, or ping an extra time. When they play 1-2 toughness creatures and I can burn 2-3 plus get the bonus of ping and/or pump, I can stall out. Also, I tend to have card drawing that lets trading one for one be in my favor.

I’m not sure why the words in response took out dragonauts from ping deck... if you mean they kill it in response, then I’m not seeing how it matters when they kill it. If they’re going to, you either counter it or take it.

As many people have told me, there aren’t enough creatures. this is why I put in dragonauts- there weren’t enough stable sources of damage. Yes, burn is nice, but it’s not going to deal some every turn. Burn is a shot i the arm, a quick explosion. I needed a little more stability in the deck which is why I need dragonauts. With this deck, 10 creatures outnumbers the kill spells they have 9 times out of ten (especially with card draw). With 6, I could be creature killed the entire time.
inresponse
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:21 am
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 162 Location:
even a turn 3 ping to a savannah lions is a little late, or to a bird. Besides, in Return for that late ping, you lose a card that you don’t have to lose. If you don’t mind losing a card to kill a creature, just play another burn spell and kill the creature turn 2. Glacial ray and guerilla tactics are far better options than using up 4 mana to kill one creature .

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