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| Thranduil |
![]() Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:49 pm |
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Joined: 01 May 2007
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But essentially that’s what the Virtual cards did - they created a 2E version of some cards.
Thranduil |
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| NBarden |
![]() Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:53 pm |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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Hobbiton Lad wrote: It’s really a lot cleaner if you start over with a "2nd Edition" mentality rather than try to fix the problems with a massive pool of cards. You just look at things one set at a time, fix the problems, and then move on from there.
So, for starters, we could work on Fellowship of the Ring 2E. Then Mines of Moria 2E, and finish up the block with Realms of the Elf Lords 2E. Within Fellowship block alone there are enough problem cards (and useless cards) to keep things busy for a while.
This way, you’re not really "creating" new cards. You’re just fixing the old ones, but within a controlled environment that allows you to focus solely on one particular set at a time without having to worry about 18 sets worth of metagame.
The problem with set by set is that Steadfast Champion wasn’t broken until Treebeard, Keeper of the Watchwood came out. Looking set by set, you go, "Huh? Why’s Steadfast Champion broken? Let’s unban it!" |
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| Hobbiton Lad |
![]() Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:55 pm |
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Joined: 26 Jun 2007
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Right, except that in SW:CCG you could still play with all the cards. It creates a nightmare for a PC to come up with virtual cards when you have to account for sets upon sets worth of previous material.
If you’re gonna do virtual cards for FotR and make a new edition out of it, you have to start from scratch. It’s no good trying to fix FotR when you’re worrying about how cards will interact with strategies from Siege of Gondor and Black Rider.
Rotate everything out. Start over. Develop Fellowship of the Ring 2E and make it the only tournament legal set to start out with. Then you bring in Mines 2E, Realms 2E, etc. You accomplish two things with this approach:
1) You allow people who already own the old cards to bring them back out and play with them. The inability to use the old cards is what drove players away in the first place.
2) You foster an environment where you can actually bring in new players. Nobody wants to come in and wade through 18 sets of cards. But if you make FotR 2E the only option up front, it gives new players something they can chew on a whole lot easier. |
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| Hobbiton Lad |
![]() Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:56 pm |
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Joined: 26 Jun 2007
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NBarden wrote: The problem with set by set is that Steadfast Champion wasn’t broken until Treebeard, Keeper of the Watchwood came out. Looking set by set, you go, "Huh? Why’s Steadfast Champion broken? Let’s unban it!"
In that case, you fix Treebeard when his set comes up for review, since that’s the card causing the real problem. |
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| NBarden |
![]() Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:01 pm |
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| Hobbiton Lad |
![]() Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:04 pm |
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| Then you fix the wording of Steadfast Champion so it can’t be exploited in that particular fashion when Treebeard is released. You can use common sense when it comes to the combos that you know are broken (or will be broken once certain cards are released). |
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| Thranduil |
![]() Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:16 pm |
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NBarden wrote: No, Treebeard is a great card, he just gets broken with Steadfast Champion. Steadfast Champion is borderline overpowered anyways.
Treebeard was asking to be broken as are all cards that replay other cards in the regroup phase. Cards that give you a penalty during the turn then an ability in the regroup phase make serious problems with cards that replay during the regroup phase, because you miss the penalty. It’s a problem with the concept, not the cards.
But I basically entirely agree with HL’s approach.
Thranduil |
'We do what we do because of who we are. If we did otherwise, we would not be ourselves.'
- Dream of the Endless
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| Gartax |
![]() Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:26 pm |
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Joined: 10 Apr 2006
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You have good ideas hobbiton and i hope it will work, but i do not hope very much since too much person have too many defferent way to see things.
and if those person don’t have their way they try to screw everything else
My idea would be to look at each card ask yourself those question
1- is it broken
2- is it NPE
3-is it useless
4- can we make a raisonnable adjustment to make the card usefull without being broken and NPE
then when you make the sugestion people will start shouting no it is not good or too good or NPE .....
just like the stupid comparaison beetween pillage of rohan and snow......
when i explicitly said that without Nertea snow may be ok.....
anywya good luck and i ll try to help |
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| Elessar's Socks |
![]() Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:52 pm |
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Joined: 29 Jul 2007
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kingmj4891 wrote: Creating new cards is where the legal trouble can come in big, revising the game text is totally different.
Yeah, that’s a continuation of my initial post, where I was describing non-graphical dream cards for online play.
IF online play is the emphasis, then there’s no real point in modifying useless cards. You have an arbitrarily large card pool and can create what the original cards should have been. IMO it’s not worth alienating players fixing what ain’t broke. Same applies to "normal"-powered cards like Goblin Runner (and I know that was just an example).
However if we intend to use these for offline play, then we might have a limited card pool depending on how things are set up (I suppose 1:1 between new card and old card). In that case useless cards become a valuable commodity, and it’s sort of like having X old cards turning into X dream/revised cards, regardless of whether they share the same spirit (e.g. changing Lightfootedness from anti-archery into a move limit bonus).
Alternatively we can further split into CC Offline and CC Online formats and work on both. CC Offline can mainly focus on revisions, and CC Online can focus on bringing in dream card sets. |
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| Celebrimbor |
![]() Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:39 pm |
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Joined: 12 Sep 2006
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Elessar’s Socks wrote: I think revising/X’ing should be limited to overpowered/broken cards, with everything else remaining as is. Even the completely useless ones like Lightfootedness and Frenzy of Arrows. My reasoning is we can simply create new cards to fill in those niches (e.g. Storm of Arrows) while minimizing the risk of alienating players who like to keep their cards as they are--especially given the lack of Decipher’s official blessing and an arbitrarily large card pool anyway.
I have to second ES. First of all, if all of the power over the holy LOTR TCG was put into the hands of mortals ugly things can happen....
Groups of people arguing with groups of other about which cards should be re-ruled, if at all, and the definition of "broken".
I don’t have a problem with any of the Current card rulings from decipher, but just a couple, namely Grimbold. |
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