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Total Votes : 4
Cleston
Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:31 pm
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 110 Location: Brasil
annex seems pretty nice now that people are using the bounce karoos... nice point... you steal not one, but two turns of mana development...
- "If I die, your deck will crumble!"
Gandalf (any of them)
La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 2:38 pm
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
Not only that, but it gives some extra mana acceleration that may be needed.
MythandManicle
Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 1:09 am
Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 11 Location:
Yeah, I’ll give annex a try. My only strike against it is that on turn 4 I could be dropping Worship or possession. (not ’til I get that dissention patch going though, curses)
The First
Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 5:18 am
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 195 Location: Anderlecht, Belgium
To be honest, I don’t get the idea behind the possession. This card is a good sideboard card against a certain deck that draws a lot of cards (deck with Tidings, Sky Hussar??,...). You can play the possession to have a benefit of this.

Playing it yourself and then use cards to make your opponent draw cards, without some kind of negative effect for your opponent (like Owl decks for instance), is just plain stupid. Both aggro and control/combo pla&yers will thank you for this (heck, even my rakdos will be happy).

NOTE: drop that Kami. It will never give you an advantage over your opponent. Without possession in play = 1 extra card. With Possession = 1 extra card. The possession skips your draw step, so you don’t have a beginning either.

I would prefer tutor cards like Demand (get Dovescape, Pride of the clouds, windreaver) and counsel of the soratami, Telling Time,... instead. No extra cards from your opponent (that you’ll have to find answers for) and counsel is a lot cheaper in the end. Don’t forget that possession has a cost of 4 and then, you didn’t even draw a card. I’d prefer 8 good draw spells and 4 wrath of gods in main than your current situation.

Don’t forget: wrath can be used both as mass removal or to remove only 1 or 2 creatures. That’s the power of wrath. I also dislike Condemn in this deck. I would prefer dream leash or a counterspell.

IMO Azorius Guildmage > Pride of the Clouds in this deck. Early game defense (just like Pride) but late game, you’ll benefit more from a Guildmage than from a Pride that will/can be blocked with tokens from dovescape. You on the other hand, won’t be able to block creatures that have fear or are unblockable. The Guildmage can tap those creatures for you.
MythandManicle
Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 7:56 pm
Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 11 Location:
@TheFirst:

The idea behind possession was specifically not to have it as sideboard tech. All I need to come up with a deck idea is a cheap(us 50 cents, woot!), little played card with a cool effect.(doesn’t have to be cheap or little played, but those are boons to me)
Quote:
Playing it yourself and then use cards to make your opponent draw cards, without some kind of negative effect for your opponent (like Owl decks for instance), is just plain stupid

As you can plainly see, I get twice the cards my opponent gets for every symmetric draw spell I play. Last time I checked, a 1Ucc card that draws you four and your opponent 2 was pretty good. Anyways, if you think it’s stupid, go make your own deck and totally pwn me. Sure every other deck benefits from my draw spells, but the worship and/or dovescape that I (hopefully) draw will obsolete many a card in my opponents hand. I mean, what deck runs tons of enchantment removal main?
The kami was a big oversight on my part d'oh! , but an extra card isn’t bad. The deck really needs to find it’s combo/lock pieces to function, and that extra card still helps. It’s also one of the cheapest cards in the deck, and this deck really needs a way to speed up.
I know wrath is great tech, and it can be both spot and mass. Against other control/combo decks though, chances are I won’t be gaining much, or nothing at all. I’d rather be playing worship turn 4 anyway. Such makes it a great sideboard card for this deck.
Why don’t you like condemn? What would make me take dream leash over confiscate? My turns, I’ll usually be tapping out, so counterspells are pretty borderline for this deck.
Azorius Guildmage is quite the lesser card from my point of view. Sure, it’s early game defence, like pride, but late game, it’s not quite as good. Show me 3 good, playable standard cards with fear or unblockable. Worship should cover this end of the spectrum anyway. Once I have tokens, Pride will be blocked, for sure. But that allows another 1 damage or so through, though. If they can’t block it, they take a good 9+ damage to the face.
All good points, well put and thought out. Hope I answered a few questions and swayed you to look at it my way a bit. Now, back to trying to open the Apprentice Dissension patch! Mr. Green Seriously, it’s starting to piss me off.
The First
Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 8:23 pm
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 195 Location: Anderlecht, Belgium
MythandManicle wrote:

Quote:
Playing it yourself and then use cards to make your opponent draw cards, without some kind of negative effect for your opponent (like Owl decks for instance), is just plain stupid

As you can plainly see, I get twice the cards my opponent gets for every symmetric draw spell I play. Last time I checked, a 1Ucc card that draws you four and your opponent 2 was pretty good. Anyways, if you think it’s stupid, go make your own deck and totally pwn me. Sure every other deck benefits from my draw spells, but the worship and/or dovescape that I (hopefully) draw will obsolete many a card in my opponents hand. I mean, what deck runs tons of enchantment removal main?


Against aggro decks, giving away free card draws is always welcome. Chances are that you will die faster. I’d rather have some anti-aggro cards at my disposal. A control deck like this one - or rather combo deck, can afford to "go off" late game. Might be personal preference, but I prefer to draw 2 cards and my opponent none instead of 4-2.

Quote:

Why don’t you like condemn? What would make me take dream leash over confiscate? My turns, I’ll usually be tapping out, so counterspells are pretty borderline for this deck.


Just for instance: Windreaver can be countered but not condemned. Meloku can be countered but condemning 1 token isn’t very effective.

And those are only the creatures, eg Jitte is worth countering as well.

And since you don’t have that many free card slots, I’d switch them.

You are right. Confiscate is better.

Quote:

Azorius Guildmage is quite the lesser card from my point of view. Sure, it’s early game defence, like pride, but late game, it’s not quite as good. Show me 3 good, playable standard cards with fear or unblockable. Worship should cover this end of the spectrum anyway. Once I have tokens, Pride will be blocked, for sure. But that allows another 1 damage or so through, though. If they can’t block it, they take a good 9+ damage to the face.


Try the Guildmage and find out why. That’s all I can say. Apparently the Guildmage isn’t that convincing on paper but you’ll be in love with the card once you try it, I promis. I myself was skeptical about the Guildmage.

Quote:

All good points, well put and thought out. Hope I answered a few questions and swayed you to look at it my way a bit. Now, back to trying to open the apprentice Dissention patch! Mr. Green Seriously, it’s starting to piss me off.


Use Magic work station : http://www.magicworkstation.com/ Mr. Green
La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:53 pm
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
Yeah, The First, the draw phase is one of many, many in your turn. Missing your draw phase does nothing to stop your untap or upkeep. I agree about wrath (with the first). I think it could be a great tool here because you have a notable lack of creatures. As you’ve said yourself, this is a control deck, and wrath can help control a good bit of the board. Also, with kami, you’ll be kind of shooting yourself in the foot against agro, so wrath may help you recover.

I’ll have to say azorious guildmage deserves to be played if you aren’t playing wrath. It’s great against people playing moldervine cloak or dragons or hippie or firemane angel. I.E. It’s just a great utility, and it gives you some beef at 2 for a 2/2.

I like the whole pride thing, but I think you’ll need to keep working with the speed here (perhaps playing things like azorious guildmage) to help give yourself some time to pull it out.
MythandManicle
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:59 pm
Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 11 Location:
ok, you’ve convinced me on wrath. But what to remove? I was thinking the 2 peace of minds and an azorius signet.
La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 7:32 pm
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
I would make the deck more like this....

Land:
3 Adarkar Wastes
4 Hallowed Fountain
8 Island
8 Plains
Total 23
Creatures:
4 Pride of the Clouds
2 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
2 Keiga, the Tide Star
Total 8
Others:
4 Condemn
4 Psychic Possession
2 Peace of Mind
3 Worship
4 Dovescape
4 Azorius Signet
4 Wrath of God
4 Annex
Total 29

Perhaps like this? Or...

Land:
3 Adarkar Wastes
4 Hallowed Fountain
8 Island
8 Plains
Total 23
Creatures:
2 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
2 Keiga, the Tide Star
Total 4
Others:
4 Honden of Cleansing Fire
4 Zur’s Weirding
4 Honden of Seeing Winds
2 Dovescape
4 Azorius Signet
4 Wrath of God
3 Peace of Mind
4 Spell Snare
Total 33

This build gives you a weirding lock, lots of board control, card draw, and a few big win conditions. Might want to test this bottom one out.
MythandManicle
Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 12:01 am
Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 11 Location:
Yeah. I’ll test both out, I’m sure both will be able to take aggro better. The bottom one looks to be better than the first, but it may only be because I have a penchant for Zur’s Weirding.

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