Post your Gemp-LotR bugs here

[bibfortuna25]

I found a bug with Army of Haradrim. There was 4 twilight in the pool and my opponent was able to activate the Army's skirmish action, even though he could not afford to play a mount from his discard pile. The rules state that if you initiate an action whose effect is playing a card from your discard pile, you have to be able to play that card if you initiate the action.

The Army should only be able to use his ability if there is 5 or more in the pool.

[MarcinS]

I found a bug with Army of Haradrim. There was 4 twilight in the pool and my opponent was able to activate the Army's skirmish action, even though he could not afford to play a mount from his discard pile. The rules state that if you initiate an action whose effect is playing a card from your discard pile, you have to be able to play that card if you initiate the action.

The Army should only be able to use his ability if there is 5 or more in the pool.

Fixed (after restart):
- Effects that play attachments should now correctly check available twilight (including the cost of the effect)
before being allowed to be played.

[Air Power]

Both yesterday and today, when I opened reflections packs, there was no display of the cards in the pack.  The pop-up asking if I was sure that I wanted to open the pack showed up both times, and, when I clicked yes, the number of packs owned went down by 1.

[MarcinS]

Both yesterday and today, when I opened reflections packs, there was no display of the cards in the pack.  The pop-up asking if I was sure that I wanted to open the pack showed up both times, and, when I clicked yes, the number of packs owned went down by 1.

For some of the players the popup with new product is not showing up. This will be fixed after restart. But you do get the cards that you bought/opened/won.

[Air Power]

Thanks Marcin

[MADG0BLIN]

I just played a game where someone left the game and then returned. Nothing happened so I did nothing. Then I asked what he was waiting for and he said it was my turn.. I refreshed and suddenly the game moved on and it was my turn, but I lost due to time-out.... This is very annoying and the second time I see nothing happening after a player returns..

Here is the replay link: http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=MADG0BLIN$7d98inkjxk5pkd6a

[Helkadal]

On the issue about Earthborn and Just a Nuisance, I think all effects should take place. Here's why:

Let's assume the idea of Just a Nuisance being stacked at Earthborn, but no Uruk-hai should be removed. Just a Nuisance states that:

* IF you discard Just a Nuisance, THEN you remove an Uruk-hai

Using logics, we can build a contrapositive:

* IF you DIDN'T remove an Uruk-hai, THEN you DIDN'T discard Just a Nuisance.

So, if you DIDN'T discard it, you obviously CANNOT stack it. So Just a Nuisance isn't discarded or stacked, neither is the Uruk-hai. Lame, nothing happens AT ALL.

----

How I understand it:

You discard Just a Nuisance and remove an Uruk-hai. Now think that Just a Nuisance is making his way to the discard pile (it's "about to be discarded", it'd be clearer if "when it's being discarded"). That's when Earthborn's effect takes place, and stacks Just a Nuisance on it. And I'm pretty sure that's what they intended for these cards.

[Tbiesty]

Forces of Mordor does not ask how many minions you want to spot.

[It was marked with a "TODO", so I checked and Uruk Spy had the same "TODO".]

[MarcinS]

On the issue about Earthborn and Just a Nuisance, I think all effects should take place. Here's why:

Let's assume the idea of Just a Nuisance being stacked at Earthborn, but no Uruk-hai should be removed. Just a Nuisance states that:

* IF you discard Just a Nuisance, THEN you remove an Uruk-hai

Using logics, we can build a contrapositive:

* IF you DIDN'T remove an Uruk-hai, THEN you DIDN'T discard Just a Nuisance.

So, if you DIDN'T discard it, you obviously CANNOT stack it. So Just a Nuisance isn't discarded or stacked, neither is the Uruk-hai. Lame, nothing happens AT ALL.

----

How I understand it:

You discard Just a Nuisance and remove an Uruk-hai. Now think that Just a Nuisance is making his way to the discard pile (it's "about to be discarded", it'd be clearer if "when it's being discarded"). That's when Earthborn's effect takes place, and stacks Just a Nuisance on it. And I'm pretty sure that's what they intended for these cards.

Incorrect. First you play out all the costs, so discard the Just a Nuisance, however you play response to it, to put it on Treebeard instead, then you play out the effect of removing an Uruk-hai, however due to bibfortuna's interpretation, the effect doesn't take place, since you failed to pay the cost.

And no, your logic doesn't work, if you had a card: "exert a companion to remove a burden", if you choose to play it, and there is no burdens, you still exerted the companion, even though you didn't remove a burden.

[MarcinS]

Forces of Mordor does not ask how many minions you want to spot.

[It was marked with a "TODO", so I checked and Uruk Spy had the same "TODO".]

Fixed (after restart):
- Both "Forces of Mordor" and "Uruk Spy" now give a choice of number of minions to spot, therefore allowing to spot less
than are in play.

[mardukra]

From the Comprehensive Rules 4.0

discard
The default meaning of the word "discard" is
"discard from play."...
When you discard a companion or ally to use
its game text or as a result of some other effect,
place that card in your discard pile (not your
dead pile).

Earthborn replaces the location of the discard as opposed to replacing the discard itself.  The discard itself is just the act of leaving play.

[Helkadal]

Incorrect. First you play out all the costs, so discard the Just a Nuisance, however you play response to it, to put it on Treebeard instead, then you play out the effect of removing an Uruk-hai, however due to bibfortuna's interpretation, the effect doesn't take place, since you failed to pay the cost.

(You may disagree, but I'm not incorrect. I'd say you're incorrect, too, but I know it's just a matter of perspective because the rules are NOT crystal clear. Anyway,) if you didn't pay that cost, you wouldn't be able to use Earthborn's effect. Also, you said it yourself that "first you pay all the costs". I ALREADY payed the cost, THEN I played a response. Again, if the cost hasn't been payed, the response wouldn't activate, would it?

And no, your logic doesn't work, if you had a card: "exert a companion to remove a burden", if you choose to play it, and there is no burdens, you still exerted the companion, even though you didn't remove a burden.

I also disagree. You did the action of removing a burden, even though there wasn't any. It's like making your character drink a Potion while his HP was full. You'll even see that he restored 100 HP because of the green numbers, BUT he couldn't get more HP because he was at max. The potion is wasted, too. In other words, just because we didn't SEE the effect doesn't mean nothing happened at all. It's the rule of doing as much as you can and ignoring the rest. You didn't ignore because you failed to follow a rule, but the contrary.

Anyway, we shouldn't go thinking there's a right answer to these questions. This game has a lot of holes. But I agree with mardukra. It's like the previous discussion about SoS.

- Exerting pays the cost, but you don't place the token as an effect of SoS.
- Discarding JaN pays the cost, but don't put JaN in the discard pile, you stack it on Earthborn.

Again, it's a matter of perspective. Does the "instead" on Earthborn refers to "stack instead of discarding"? Or is it "stack it here instead of the discard pile"? While I think it's the latter, we'll never be 100% sure, even if we ask the original developers (even they might disagree). We could, though, get to a consensus.

[bibfortuna25]

Anytime a cost is replaced, you cannot get the effect. Here's an example:

Some of the Orcs in the first couple sets give an additional "wound a companion" cost to some FP events. If you choose to wound the Ring-bearer for this, you cannot use the Ring's response to turn the wound into a burden. Same thing with Morgul Brute/Destroyer.

Earthborn cannot "catch" JaN if you want to get the effect of removing the Uruk.

[Helkadal]

So, I've been re-reading the rules and definitions. Seems like it all comes to "instead" (that's the difference to SoS) and the "about to" state. Ok, fair enough. One more thing just to be clear. If the text were:

"Response: IfWhen an unbound Hobbit is about to be discarded, stack him here instead."

... would Earthborn "catch" JaN and still get the effect of removing an Uruk-hai? Or only if it were:

"Response: IfWhen an unbound Hobbit is about to be discarded, stack him here instead."

Or would neither give me the effect mentioned above? I know it's all hypothetical, but it's good to fully grasp the details of all the rules.

[bibfortuna25]

Yes, that would work. In a game like this, the wording of the cards is of utmost importance. That's why I always say all cards do what they say.