Post your Gemp-LotR bugs here

[dark293]

nope in the case of stacking minions onto cards it will auto select and then not give me the choice i have had this with tmc before and only having 1 minion it will auto select and remove my minion then not give me the choice to use it's effect again

[MarcinS]

an issue between Aragorn, Thorongil (15R55), Their Marching Companies (8U107), Shadowfax, Greatest of the Mearas (17R24), the Aragorn and shadowfax may trigger their effects of adding a threat to Remove a non existant burden or to not exert a minion weaker then aragorn even in the case of him having 0 strength so IB decks add threats all day even if you remove them, but the same case can't be said for their marching companies We cannot remove a threat to choose not to play a minion from our sites the game makes the decision for us

I'm not sure, if you are saying there is a problem with any of those cards, or not. I believe these cards work correctly, if you think otherwise, please be more specific, which card works incorrectly, what happened, and what you were expect to happen.

I assume you refer to not being able to activate Their Marching Companies to remove a threat without card stacked on it in Shadow phase, or not being able to play the stacked minion. If so, you will find the answer to this problem below.

Here is a quote from Comprehensive Rules:
"If you perform an action that has playing a card from hand or discard pile as part of its effect, you must (be able to) play that card. This exception applies to all kinds of actions and all the different ways you can play a card (except playing a card directly from your draw deck)."

The rules are written in a very weird way - first they list, when the rule applies (playing from hand or discard) and then they say it applies to playing cards from all places but draw deck. So I go with the second part, as having better merit.

So, in case of Their Marching Companies, you have to be able to play a stacked card (have twilight, meet all requirements), to be able to activate the ability. Therefore, if you have no stacked minions or are unable to play any of the stacked minions, you may not activate it (remove a threat).

[dark293]

Nevermind since the way the rules are written really seems to #$&*@! shadow players thanks but i'm done

[MarcinS]

nope in the case of stacking minions onto cards it will auto select and then not give me the choice i have had this with tmc before and only having 1 minion it will auto select and remove my minion then not give me the choice to use it's effect again

Can you please describe a situation when you think the card worked incorrectly and how you think the card should have worked in that situation. For example:
I have card X in my support area and Y twilight was in the pool. During P phase I was not able to activate Q. I think I should be able to activate Q, because I had Z in my hand/discard.

[dark293]

honestly it was more a case of thinking the rules weren't so convuleted to let this sort of stuff where people could litterly sit on people legally like having 9 threats added every fellowship phase without being able to with 1-2 cards be able to counter it

[MarcinS]

honestly it was more a case of thinking the rules weren't so convuleted to let this sort of stuff where people could litterly sit on people legally like having 9 threats added every fellowship phase without being able to with 1-2 cards be able to counter it

You do realize, that having a lot of threats is supposed to be beneficial to the Shadow player, if FP voluntarily adds them, all you have to do, is just kill a companion and they will all change into wounds. You should adapt your way of playing against opponents having lots of threats into that direction. Killing off a companion is the best way of removing threats Shadow player has at his/her disposal.

[dark293]

when you really cant get to use them especially in expanded when everyone abuses madril, IB but frankly you have lost me as a player because seriously it feels like i might aswell just play half a deck or just stop and wait for something that will never come a Look over cards that need a fix or heck even a R-list

[Kralik]

Here is a quote from Comprehensive Rules:
"If you perform an action that has playing a card from hand or discard pile as part of its effect, you must (be able to) play that card. This exception applies to all kinds of actions and all the different ways you can play a card (except playing a card directly from your draw deck)."

Hold on... the (be able to) part is not written in the rules. I copy-pasted that exact block above as being a possible reason for how the rules are being interpreted, but I'm not sure. What makes you add that text?

I think you could also interpret it as: if you pay the cost, you must play the card if you can. Unlike playing from the draw deck, where you can pay the cost, be able to play the card, but decide not to play it anyway. Therefore, you can pay the cost (remove a threat) and if you have a minion you must play it, but if not, you don't.

[dark293]

well according to gemp it doesn't allow me the choice of activating if i don't have a minion on my site

[MarcinS]

Here is a quote from Comprehensive Rules:
"If you perform an action that has playing a card from hand or discard pile as part of its effect, you must (be able to) play that card. This exception applies to all kinds of actions and all the different ways you can play a card (except playing a card directly from your draw deck)."

Hold on... the (be able to) part is not written in the rules. I copy-pasted that exact block above as being a possible reason for how the rules are being interpreted, but I'm not sure. What makes you add that text?

I think you could also interpret it as: if you pay the cost, you must play the card if you can. Unlike playing from the draw deck, where you can pay the cost, be able to play the card, but decide not to play it anyway. Therefore, you can pay the cost (remove a threat) and if you have a minion you must play it, but if not, you don't.

There was a thread about it somewhere. I think bibfortuna has ruled, this is how this rule was supposed to be interpreted. If not, I should be able to change that quite quickly, but that will change how a lot of cards work. For example, Treebeard, Keeper of the Watchwood at the moment cannot be used if you can't play condition from your discard.

[Kralik]

I think I would agree with Treebeard, KotW because the rules very explicitly mention playing from hand and discard pile. Although... there is another effect and the general though on effects is that you must do as much as possible.

I'm not entirely convinced about stacked cards though. Anyone have a link to the thread?

[MarcinS]

I think I would agree with Treebeard, KotW because the rules very explicitly mention playing from hand and discard pile. Although... there is another effect and the general though on effects is that you must do as much as possible.

I'm not entirely convinced about stacked cards though. Anyone have a link to the thread?

Well, next sentence of the rule says that "This exception applies to all kinds of actions and all the different ways you
can play a card (except playing a card directly from your draw deck)."

So, if you agree, that you should not be able to use the Treebeard without a playable condition in your discard. You should also not be able to use the TMC, as the rules applies to "all kinds of actions and all the different ways you can play a card", including from being stacked.

[Kralik]

"This exception" refers to:

"Exception:
If you perform an action that has playing a card
from hand or discard pile as part of its effect, you
must play that card."

Which states that you must play a card (if you can), not that you must be able to play a card before paying the costs.

The earlier paragraph about having to be able to play a card before paying the cost refers only to hand and discard.

"If an action plays a card from your hand (or
discard pile) as part of its effect, then that card
must be in your hand (or discard pile) before you
can begin to perform that action..."

[MarcinS]

"This exception" refers to:

"Exception:
If you perform an action that has playing a card
from hand or discard pile as part of its effect, you
must play that card."

Which states that you must play a card (if you can), not that you must be able to play a card before paying the costs.

The earlier paragraph about having to be able to play a card before paying the cost refers only to hand and discard.

"If an action plays a card from your hand (or
discard pile) as part of its effect, then that card
must be in your hand (or discard pile) before you
can begin to perform that action..."

In that case, can I get a concise requirements that have to be met to be able to play an action?

Is it:
1. You have to be able to pay all the costs (obviously).
2. You have to meet all the requirements.
3. If an action as its effect plays a card from hand or discard (only these two places), you have to have a legally playable card in hand or discard).

Correct?

[Kralik]

Incidentally, I think I can see that perhaps the (be able to) is implied, but regardless, Decipher's wording could use some work. If the first paragraph and the "exception" were referring to the same thing, they really should have been combined, perhaps like:

If an action plays a card as part of its effect, then that card must be able to be played before you can begin to perform that action (except playing a card directly from your draw deck). See draw deck.