Namarie (POLL)

[ephen]

Seems like it has been proved that banning cards like Namarie wouldn't restrict deck ideas, it would allow people to run some condition based shadows. If a card is so good that everyone runs it or has to run something to deal with it it kills the diversity of decks.

[Olorin]

I think it is better not to compare Namarie with that card: http://lotrtcgwiki.com/pages/LOTR13042.html

This card is unique, twilight cost of three, cannot be replayed in infinite loops, cannot replay other conditions... at the maximum there get 3 tokens on it... but in the average 1 or 2... for 2 tokens (and not for just 1) you may discard a condition... and you have to spot a wizard...

... so I don't understand the discussion about Namarie: it's just a to broken card... Namarie just has to be banned! Elves have got so many other ways to discard conditions... but to keep the game at least a little bit balanced, Namarie has to be kicked out of the game!

off topic

Normally Gil-Galad should be kicked out too. We still have to find a way to handle his brokeness, I think!

Recently I played against Pepin... I played Glorfindel Eldarin Lord... guess the shadow I played against... Shelob possession with Gollum... this only Glorfindel destroyed the whole deck! win- remove threat, win- remove threat... whole time... shelob didn't have any chance...

In my opinion, Elves are overpowered in general... and I am not the only one...

another example is the elven ringbearer Galadriel...

well she was made with values of a hobbit... strength 3/ vitality 3... so there was no set back... and NOW?

Galadriel with the e.g. Ring of Reflections, the silver ewer and nenya... she is a companion... with strength 6, Vitality 5, Resistance 10 (with 4 other comps) - why shall I play Isildur or Gimli as ringbearer... they always have to add threats or burdens, etc... Galadriel... nothing...

We all know Decipher made a lot of problems... the balance of the game got lost. - DEFINITELY.

...or have you ever seen in a tournament that a deck with Ents or men won a tournament? No... because they are just to weak... same for Gandalf Ringbearer...

but Gondor, Ringbound Hobbits and Elves are reliable fellowships... but as I said before, to keep at least a little bit of balance, we have to kick out the obviously broken cards, that are just that broken, that an errata would be a complete other card and not just a little change, like Namarie, or Gil-Galad.
I am happy, that Decipher recognized to put an errata on elven armaments... (skip archery phase)... but they didn't (enough) on Gli-Galad and Namarie.

[Olorin]

Seems like it has been proved that banning cards like Namarie wouldn't restrict deck ideas, it would allow people to run some condition based shadows. If a card is so good that everyone runs it or has to run something to deal with it it kills the diversity of decks.

Word!

[Smeagollum]

Olorin

Elves were always very strong in lotr tcg. I just don't agree with you. There is enough against it. I'm really not afraid with a ninja-gollum deck for any elvendeck. If it becomes meta, people will start to play counterdecks against it and then it won't be that populair anymore. Just make it unique.
And I'm afraid that Corsairs will bash Namarie-decks.

What I don't like is that because a card is very powerfull and  people want to x those cards, because their decks can't stand it. In that case try to find a solution. Use your creativity and imagination.

[sickofpalantirs]

I don't see many new players coming to LOTR. With no new cards being printed, banning cards would just restrict different deck ideas.

what is it with you and wanting to keep your hands on OP cards?

[Elessar's Socks]

@Smeagollum: Where would you stand on Lady Redeemed?

For the record, I think she's in a class of her own (targeting possessions as well, pitching cards for Cirdan, requiring more specific removal), but the arguments back then for/against her are quite similar to the ones now. Don't play conditions, meta against her, condition removal is the Elves' strong point, etc.

[Smeagollum]

@Smeagollum: Where would you stand on Lady Redeemed?

For the record, I think she's in a class of her own (targeting possessions as well, pitching cards for Cirdan, requiring more specific removal), but the arguments back then for/against her are quite similar to the ones now. Don't play conditions, meta against her, condition removal is the Elves' strong point, etc.

I love her... want to marry kate Blachet for it  , but she's already married

No Seriousley. I like the card. But you're right; It is similar. Everybody thought it overpowered by then. But I never had that many problems with it. You see.. it's nice to be that powerfull, but if an opponenet plays a scrubdeck and you counter it then you'll have problems in keeping her. Again there's enough against it. I ussually use multipple tactics in a deck so that I don't depend on just one. If I play a condition-intensive shadow. Just be assured that there also will be enough minions to do enough to stop you without the conditions or I'll have a fellowship which will outrun yours.

Though I can sense some problems in combinations, but that wasn't meant to be and there wasn't enough playtesting.
Actually Big D made 2 games for Lotr: Filmblock and post 10. And that's why we suffer some problems now. And as I don't like to x anything then an errata is on it's place: For conditions and possesions you can make it unique. Events & comps you can't do that in that case you should make a text-errata. In her case I would say at the start of the maneuver or at the start of the regroup. Actually you could do the same with Gil-Glad & Glorfindel. But what you also could do is use the rule of 4 for those 2.

[Elrohir]

I do not have any problems with lady redeemed. And Glorfindel is an average companion. Just one threat remove is not that strong, compared to black land chieftain. You all see what happend after x-listing lady redeemed. Elves have heavy dificulties if facing Corsairs and the ships. This was an very unbalanced decision - and so it will be the same with Namarie.

[Smeagollum]

I do not have any problems with lady redeemed. And Glorfindel is an average companion. Just one threat remove is not that strong, compared to black land chieftain. You all see what happend after x-listing lady redeemed. Elves have heavy dificulties if facing Corsairs and the ships. This was an very unbalanced decision - and so it will be the same with Namarie.

Well the combo Glorfindel with lr is very strong. If you have 5 comps and you'll be able to add 5 threats and there are ways to get those removed as well, then you can remove 5 possesions/conditions.

Then again. I don't have a problem with it as well. Against everything there is a counter.

Further it's the same discussion as back then with LR, now it's namarie.

But if you want to keep everybody happy you can think of a small errata: At the start would help I think.

[Olorin]

Once again... Errata is not good... banning is better coz it causes less confusion... errata is just for cards that need a very small fixing... Namarie... needs a huge fixing... if it even can get fixed... by banning Gil-Galad perhaps... shall we ban Gil-Galad to let us get spending thoughts on errata for Namarie?

I just understand why there are some people against banning Namarie... though it's brokeness is that obviously... elves even don't need the card essentially... Namarie gets banned an fine.

perhaps next time we are talking about r-listing final account or steadfast champion or r-listing Galadriel LR... wuahahah... (notice for me: dunno which card is more broken: Gil-Galad, Namarie or LR)

I do not have any problems with lady redeemed. And Glorfindel is an average companion. Just one threat remove is not that strong, compared to black land chieftain. You all see what happend after x-listing lady redeemed. Elves have heavy dificulties if facing Corsairs and the ships. This was an very unbalanced decision - and so it will be the same with Namarie.

off topic
Glorfindel is strength 9. Play Boromir... he is just strength 7. you need to play a sword on him to get the same strength... this means you need to play one card more in deck (deck gets larger)... means also, that possession can get discarded again too. Glorfindel is strength 9 - but Shelob loses the whole strength bonus from possessions.... Black Land Chieftain may make threats... but don't kill all elves just by playing him... he is for sure not an average companion... you just need one card in deck... and not 2 (example Boromir).

[MR. Lurtzy]

If Namarie was R-listed an Gil-Galad given an errata (regroup action changed to at the start of the regroup phase), I think the whole situation would be perfectly balanced. Errata may at first be a little more confusing, but it is better than just making the card unplayable.

[Smeagollum]

Once again... Errata is not good... banning is better coz it causes less confusion... errata is just for cards that need a very small fixing... Namarie... needs a huge fixing... if it even can get fixed... by banning Gil-Galad perhaps... shall we ban Gil-Galad to let us get spending thoughts on errata for Namarie?

I just understand why there are some people against banning Namarie... though it's brokeness is that obviously... elves even don't need the card essentially... Namarie gets banned an fine.

perhaps next time we are talking about r-listing final account or steadfast champion or r-listing Galadriel LR... wuahahah... (notice for me: dunno which card is more broken: Gil-Galad, Namarie or LR)

I do not have any problems with lady redeemed. And Glorfindel is an average companion. Just one threat remove is not that strong, compared to black land chieftain. You all see what happend after x-listing lady redeemed. Elves have heavy dificulties if facing Corsairs and the ships. This was an very unbalanced decision - and so it will be the same with Namarie.

off topic
Glorfindel is strength 9. Play Boromir... he is just strength 7. you need to play a sword on him to get the same strength... this means you need to play one card more in deck (deck gets larger)... means also, that possession can get discarded again too. Glorfindel is strength 9 - but Shelob loses the whole strength bonus from possessions.... Black Land Chieftain may make threats... but don't kill all elves just by playing him... he is for sure not an average companion... you just need one card in deck... and not 2 (example Boromir).

Errata can be excellent for Gil-Galad & LR. No x-ing cards. There's no need for it. So no x-ing Namarie.

Of-topic: Shelob, eater of light will get the bonus, because it's not the possesion which gives her extra strength, but the amount of minions she spots on a possesion. So what you say is not quite true. A nice try though....

[Elrohir]

I think I would agree to errata Gil-Galad's Regroup ability to "At the start of the regroup phase". So there are no elven loops left.

[Smeagollum]

I think I would agree to errata Gil-Galad's Regroup ability to "At the start of the regroup phase". So there are no elven loops left.

Errata the ability for LR as well into: at the start of.
Make Namarie unique
Then things should be fine.

End of discussion; Smeagollum, son of Annatar has spoken
 

[Olorin]

LR cannot be allowed to play, otherwise Elves could discard possessions as well...

and if you think about Gil-Galad... once again... he don't need two abilities... cancel the whole regroup ability... compare gil-galad to erland... elves are to powerful...