Another question...

[Zoskan]

Hello again! Should be a simple question for all the Masters out there: Can someone play a Relentless Charge to exert his enduring nazgûl even if there's no archer to wound? One of my friend is doing this all the time and I'm not sure it's quite legitimate.

Thanks for the help.   

[HawkeyeSPF]

Yes; he is paying the cost (exert a nazgul) in order to gain the effect (wound every archer companion). Just because there are no archer companions does not prevent him from paying the cost.

[Zoskan]

Just thought about another situation that could involve Relentless Charge: If you have Rumil, Silvan Elf and your opponent play Relentless Charge, does Rumil spot then a wounded minion and he become an archer making him take a wound 'cause of RC?

[FingolfinFinwe]

Tricksy, but I would say yes.  The cost comes before the effect, and in this case Rumil would become an archer before the effect happens.  Someone correct me if this is wrong.

[TheJord]

I would say no it doesnt, as the cost of a card cannot be part of the effect, like Fury of the White Rider cannot spot the tokens added as part of its cost.

[Thranduil]

I think TJ that you're right; the effect resolves only by wounding each companion that was an archer when you started playing the card.

Thranduil

[FingolfinFinwe]

Ah good point!

[Elessar's Socks]

The wounds from Relentless Charge are not simultaneous, right? If they're assigned one at a time, I'm not sure why Rumil wouldn't be effected.

[TheJord]

The wounds arent placed simultaneously, but the cost of playing a card cant affect its effects.

[Elessar's Socks]

Haha, major brain fart. For some reason I had it my head that Rumil was keying off a wounded (archer) companion, and not the Nazgul itself. Okay, now that I get the situation...

I'm not seeing how Fury of the White Rider relates. Spotting 3 twilight tokens is a requirement, not a cost. Requirements must be met before paying costs, which is why FotWR can't key off of that. Relentless Charge is a cost/effect issue and not a requirement/cost issue. I think Rumil will still take that wound.

[Kralik]

The wounds arent placed simultaneously, but the cost of playing a card cant affect its effects.

I've got to throw another wrench in the gears here, as this has to do with a question I have. Look at Decipher's notes for Under the Living Earth:

The twilight token added for the cost of this card adds to the strength bonus provided by its effect. For example: if the twilight pool is empty when this card is played, Gandalf is strength +1.

So the cost clearly alters the effect.
Keep that in mind, and here's another question:

If Fat One Wants It is on the table and you play So Polite, does the threat added by FOWI add to twilight. Based on the ruling for UtLE, I would think yes... hmmm...

[Elessar's Socks]

If Fat One Wants It is on the table and you play So Polite, does the threat added by FOWI add to twilight. Based on the ruling for UtLE, I would think yes... hmmm...

I'd say yes. FOWI triggers before the effect of So Polite (because the costs must first be paid, and one cost is to play Gollum).

[TheJord]

Under the Living Earth has an effect that spots twilight tokens.

With Relentless Charge, at what point does Rumil spot the wounded minion? Before or after the costs are met? What gets priority? I say the event does.

[Kralik]

Rumil's language ("while") seems to indicate that at any point there is a wounded minion, he gains archer.

[Elessar's Socks]

Rumil's text triggers when the FP player can spot a wounded minion. This happens after a Nazgul exerts as a cost of Relentless Charge. Then when the effects are performed, Rumil is wounded because he's now an archer.

To turn this around, why should Rumil wait until after the effects are performed? If he has to wait, then why are response actions (e.g. Unheeded) allowed to step in? The rules use the same "trigger" terminology for both. Response actions have a trigger describing when they may be performed. "While" text also have a trigger describing when they take effect. It seems like a stretch to say that when a minion exerts, Unheeded can detect this trigger immediately, but Rumil cannot.