LotR TCG Wiki → Card Sets:  All 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 → Forums:  TLHH CC

Author Topic: Whisper in the Dark  (Read 15615 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

February 09, 2010, 05:51:48 PM
Reply #15

jdizzy001

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • Knight
  • Posts: 1038
Re: Whisper in the Dark
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2010, 05:51:48 PM »
i thought cards did what they say they did? why is this even being debated? true, followers can't bear stuff but the text of the condition specifically states bearer must be a follower
*All posts made by jdizzy001, regardless of the thread in which they appear, are expressions of his own opinion and as such are not representative of views shared by any third party unless expressly acknowledged as such by said party.

I play LOTR SBG look at my minis!
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.124731667611081.33577.100002227457509&l=aeb5fa3bdd

February 09, 2010, 07:10:22 PM
Reply #16

MR. Lurtzy

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2745
  • Wouldn't it be nice if we were Hodor?
    • My website
Re: Whisper in the Dark
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2010, 07:10:22 PM »
Because followers can't bear cards. Not all cards do what they say.

February 09, 2010, 07:20:08 PM
Reply #17

MR. Lurtzy

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2745
  • Wouldn't it be nice if we were Hodor?
    • My website
Re: Whisper in the Dark
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2010, 07:20:08 PM »
Cards that mess with play order like Anduin Wilderland, The Balrog, DB, or Caverns of Isengard wouldn't work (the rules say that you have an archery phase and that the Free Peoples player wins at the start of the regroup phase at site 9).
Where does it say that there must be an archery phase?

February 09, 2010, 09:31:10 PM
Reply #18

MuadDib85

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • Ranger
  • Posts: 940
Re: Whisper in the Dark
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2010, 09:31:10 PM »
Where does it say that there must be an archery phase?

Where does it say there must be fellowship phase or a skirmish phase or a regroup phase?...

The archery phase is a part of the game just like the others.

Whether or not people agree, Whisper In The Dark can be used. Simple as that. Or at least everyone that I have ever played against on gccg has never had a problem with it and I have a whispers deck that I used to use all the time. It's nothing namarie can't handle, and useless against ring-bound decks.

I would also say that it has been errated, so why errata it if it can't be used..?
(I know about frenzy of arrows, they must have had plans to introduce orc archers in the last couple of sets that were never released is all I can come up with for that ridiculous errata)







February 09, 2010, 10:59:59 PM
Reply #19

MR. Lurtzy

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2745
  • Wouldn't it be nice if we were Hodor?
    • My website
Re: Whisper in the Dark
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2010, 10:59:59 PM »
Read the thread before you post.
Where does it say that there must be an archery phase?

Where does it say there must be fellowship phase or a skirmish phase or a regroup phase?...

That wasn't my point. I don't see anywhere that says that the archery phase cannot be skipped.

Whether or not people agree, Whisper In The Dark can be used. Simple as that.
Followers can't bear cards. It's in the rules. Simple as that.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 01:22:26 AM by MR. Lurtzy »

February 10, 2010, 05:28:03 AM
Reply #20

Gil-Estel

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2267
  • Abuser of the Force
Re: Whisper in the Dark
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2010, 05:28:03 AM »
Hmm, I am not sure about this. Both say things that make total sense. I am leaning towards Lurtzy, but that is only because I hate Whispers in the Dark, which is not a legal point of view, haha
..."Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill"...

February 10, 2010, 05:57:15 AM
Reply #21

legolas3333

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2152
Re: Whisper in the Dark
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2010, 05:57:15 AM »
i actually think the real problem is it's combo with Saruman, SoS cause i usually don't run followers (except pallando) so i normally don't worry about my own followers. but since it can be played on saruman, it makes it so much more versatile, i mean would you want to run it if you were dependent on your opponent playing followers? without saruman, it would be like running the cave troll's chain in a multiplayer game where you're basically counting on your fellow shadow players to play the cave troll, otherwise you have 3-4 useless cards

of course you could just discard saruman by running Librarian, Keeper of Ancient Texts, Erkenbrand's Horn, Horn of Boromir, The Great Horn or Gamling's Horn
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 06:01:29 AM by legolas3333 »
A Promo Saved is a Promo Earned

February 10, 2010, 11:55:39 AM
Reply #22

Sam, Great Elf Warrior

  • ****
  • Information Offline
  • Horseman
  • Posts: 303
Re: Whisper in the Dark
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2010, 11:55:39 AM »
That wasn't my point. I don't see anywhere that says that the archery phase cannot be skipped.
Saying there is an archery phase after the maneuver phase implies that at the end of the maneuver phase, you have an archery phase.

Besides, the rules clearly state that you can't play a unique companion when there's a copy of that companion in your dead pile (contrary to Sent Back), etc.

In order to argue that preexisting rules supersede the cards, you don't just need to explain how that allows Anduin Confluence to work, you need to explain how Sent Back, Gollum, PD, or the many other cards that contradict the rules and yet have never been challenged work, just as I was able to give an explanation for the only case where a rule was deemed to supersede a card that directly contradicted it (OEG) (if you can come up with a case where a preexisting rule was interpreted to render part or all of a card's text entirely ineffective, I'd be happy to hear it).

Moreover, the question still remains why Decipher would bother to errata Whisper in the Dark if the rules prohibited it from ever being played. Yes, they did that stupid errata with Frenzy of Arrows, but that could be explained by the notion that they planned to make [Orc] archers or even forgot that there were no [Orc] archers, a far more understandable mistake than failing to notice that the card's game text explicitly contradicted a rule. Also, it could be that the errata to Frenzy of Arrows was intended a backdoor ban, whereas the errata to Whisper in the Dark would, by your interpretation, have absolutely no gameplay effect (since the card could never be played anyway).


What this keeps going back to, however, is the question: When a preexisting rule would render part (or all) of a card's game text entirely ineffective, which wins? I would argue that the card wins, both because the card is later and more specific (so the general principles of interpretation favor the card), and because of the numerous examples where cards' game texts have been held or assumed to override preexisting rules (with no counterexamples of which I am aware).
« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 12:00:58 PM by Sam, Great Elf Warrior »

February 10, 2010, 02:16:26 PM
Reply #23

ket_the_jet

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 2062
  • He/Him/His
Re: Whisper in the Dark
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2010, 02:16:26 PM »
Another stalemated argument in Standard. What a surprise.
-wtk

February 10, 2010, 02:19:22 PM
Reply #24

MuadDib85

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • Ranger
  • Posts: 940
Re: Whisper in the Dark
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2010, 02:19:22 PM »
Read the thread before you post.

That wasn't my point. I don't see anywhere that says that the archery phase cannot be skipped.

Followers can't bear cards. It's in the rules. Simple as that.

I did read the thread.

Well if whispers doesn't work then neither does sent back. Explain that please Mr. Lurtzy.
Why can companions be played from the dead pile even though it contradicts the rules?

So if Sent Back is allowed then Whispers is too. Can't allow one and not the other just because you don't like whispers..

February 10, 2010, 02:20:30 PM
Reply #25

MuadDib85

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • Ranger
  • Posts: 940
Re: Whisper in the Dark
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2010, 02:20:30 PM »
Another stalemated argument in Standard. What a surprise.
-wtk

Not stalemated because whispers can be played. ;)

February 10, 2010, 02:21:50 PM
Reply #26

MuadDib85

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • Ranger
  • Posts: 940
Re: Whisper in the Dark
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2010, 02:21:50 PM »

February 10, 2010, 03:27:42 PM
Reply #27

MR. Lurtzy

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2745
  • Wouldn't it be nice if we were Hodor?
    • My website
Re: Whisper in the Dark
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2010, 03:27:42 PM »

February 10, 2010, 07:22:21 PM
Reply #28

MuadDib85

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • Ranger
  • Posts: 940
Re: Whisper in the Dark
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2010, 07:22:21 PM »
That's right, he knows the rules well. :)

February 10, 2010, 08:28:44 PM
Reply #29

MR. Lurtzy

  • *****
  • Information Offline
  • King
  • Posts: 2745
  • Wouldn't it be nice if we were Hodor?
    • My website
Re: Whisper in the Dark
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2010, 08:28:44 PM »
Obviously not, because it can't be played.