Dáin's DCs - Mordor's Borders (5/29: End Of The Game...?)

[DáinIronfoot]

As I continue to figure out where and how to jump back into specific cultures in a specific set after the move here from CC, I'll also continue to pass the time by doing some random "themes". We recently did a short jaunt through Helm's Deep, so now let's move much further east to the borders of Mordor itself.

Perhaps one of Mordor's greatest guardians is also one not really connected to Sauron at all. You know who I mean...HER.

•Shelob, Dark Terror of Cirith Ungol
Minion • Spider
Strength: 8
Vitality: 8
Site: 8
Ambush . Damage +1. Enduring. Fierce. Toil 2.
Shelob may not be exerted by other Shadow cards.
Each time Shelob wins a skirmish, you may exert or heal her.
"As for Sauron: he knew where she lurked....So they both lived, delighting in their own devices, and feared no assault, nor wrath, nor any end to their wickedness. Never yet had any fly escaped from Shelob's webs, and the greater now was her rage and hunger."

I've longed to make a solid Shelob that connects to Gollum...but isn't reliant on him, like Shelob, Her Ladyship and Shelob, Menace are. I figured toil was a great way to do this, as it lets you get Shelob cheaper if you have Gollum around (and are willing to exert him); basically, it takes away her normal roaming cost. Of course, the fact that you can't exert Shelob (or Gollum much, if you exerted him to get Shelob cheaply) means that many cards which require some exerting are then out of reach, but the payoff should be worth it, methinks. The fact that she's a perma-damage +1 should help make up for the lack of her other versions' killer text.

•Gollum, Brings Nice Food
Minion
Strength: 5
Vitality: 4
Site: 3
When you play Gollum, you may remove X threats (limit 2) to make his twilight cost -X.
Skirmish: Exert Gollum to make a minion strength +1 (or +2 if skirmishing a Ring-bound companion).
"Gollum withdrew himself, and a green glint flickered under his heavy lids. Almost spider-like he looked now, crouched back on his bent limbs, with his protruding eyes."

And here's the nasty little traitor himself. Combine him with 2 threats and the Shelob above, and under the right circumstances, you can get BOTH for only twilight. Not too shabby, eh? Oh, and then you can give some nice little strength pumps, too. Nasty!

[lem0nhead]

•Shelob, Dark Terror of Cirith Ungol
Minion • Spider
Strength: 8
Vitality: 8
Site: 8
Enduring. Damage +1. Fierce. Toil 2.
Shelob may not be exerted by other Shadow cards.
Each time Shelob wins a skirmish, you may exert or heal her.
"As for Sauron: he knew where she lurked....So they both lived, delighting in their own devices, and feared no assault, nor wrath, nor any end to their wickedness. Never yet had any fly escaped from Shelob's webs, and the greater now was her rage and hunger."

Meh with the first line she becomes very limited use, whilst being balanced at the same time, cos without it its abuseable and clearly as broken as you have identified. Toil and damage do help but still a bit bland.

•Gollum, Brings Nice Food
Minion
Strength: 5
Vitality: 4
Site: 3
When you play Gollum, you may remove X threats (limit 2) to make his twilight cost -X.
Skirmish: Exert Gollum to make a minion strength +1 (or +2 if skirmishing a Ring-bound companion).
"Gollum withdrew himself, and a green glint flickered under his heavy lids. Almost spider-like he looked now, crouched back on his bent limbs, with his protruding eyes."

Awesome, i like muchly. Why limit it?

[DáinIronfoot]

•Shelob, Dark Terror of Cirith Ungol
Minion • Spider
Strength: 8
Vitality: 8
Site: 8
Enduring. Damage +1. Fierce. Toil 2.
Shelob may not be exerted by other Shadow cards.
Each time Shelob wins a skirmish, you may exert or heal her.
"As for Sauron: he knew where she lurked....So they both lived, delighting in their own devices, and feared no assault, nor wrath, nor any end to their wickedness. Never yet had any fly escaped from Shelob's webs, and the greater now was her rage and hunger."

Meh with the first line she becomes very limited use, whilst being balanced at the same time, cos without it its abuseable and clearly as broken as you have identified. Toil and damage do help but still a bit bland.

Unfortunately, balance sometimes means "a bit bland". I think having her fierce AND damage +1 makes her a force to be reckoned with all by themselves, though. Think about it. In the right circumstances, she dishes out AT LEAST four wounds in a turn. Yowch.

Plus, I really think a potentially-cheaper Shelob like this is necessary. That site 8 thing makes it hard to get her until late in the game, so this helps you throw her at the FP player earlier than you might normally consider.

Bland? Yes, I won't deny that. But she certainly has her uses.

•Gollum, Brings Nice Food
Minion
Strength: 5
Vitality: 4
Site: 3
When you play Gollum, you may remove X threats (limit 2) to make his twilight cost -X.
Skirmish: Exert Gollum to make a minion strength +1 (or +2 if skirmishing a Ring-bound companion).
"Gollum withdrew himself, and a green glint flickered under his heavy lids. Almost spider-like he looked now, crouched back on his bent limbs, with his protruding eyes."

Awesome, i like muchly. Why limit it?

Because I didn't want to create any potentially broken loops or unintended combos by letting you remove any number of threats. Since Gollum costs only , you don't NEED to remove more than 2 threats to get full benefits of the text, so why allow something that might be abused in ways I didn't intend, like removing 3 threats? Or 4? Or 9? The X-list has taught me that it's better to be safe than sorry, because some really cool and really useful cards are on that list thanks to simple, silly mistakes that let them be abused in ways they were never intended to be.

Oh, thanks for the review. 8) Have some gold, my friend. Ka-ching!

[lem0nhead]

Thanks for the kings advisor ching!  But can i just question 1 thing further, how do you think shes is gonna win 2 skirmishes to deal 4 wounds? She's only 8 strength and you cant exert her before she wins so shes gonna get battered!

Your thoughts?

[DáinIronfoot]

Thanks for the kings advisor ching!  But can i just question 1 thing further, how do you think shes is gonna win 2 skirmishes to deal 4 wounds? She's only 8 strength and you cant exert her before she wins so shes gonna get battered!

Silly autolinker.

8 strength is nothing to sneeze at. It's not up to snuff with many typical heavy hitters, granted, but it's enough to win against nearly any companion in the game, including the likes of Aragorn, Gandalf, Elendil, Eomer, Elrond...the list goes on. Yes, that requires those companions not have any pumps to help them out, but if you can catch them napping, she can win without too much trouble.

And there WILL be some pumps to help Shelob out, too, that don't require exerting. Heck, there are already a few, from Countless Cords to Hobbitses Are Dead to Cunningly Hidden. Any one of those should all but ensure victory as long as the FP player isn't using such pumps himself.

It might take little work against certain fellowships, but it can be done against most of them. And against certain ones, like Hobbits, it's a true killer.

Aside from fighting, though, I will again point out how this Shelob is potentially cheaper than others, helping grease the gears of many Gollum/Shelob combos that people love to try and pull off...or allow some more expensive cards you might normally not consider. Sting of Shelob, anyone?

[lem0nhead]

Yeah ok shes cheaper granted and it is good but i have say i dont have any decks that wouldnt be able to take her out. My biggest and 2nd biggest fighter in any deck could have her easy, twice! 8 IS enuf be sneezed at. I laugh at minions that are anything less than 11 strength really.

[DáinIronfoot]

Yeah ok shes cheaper granted and it is good but i have say i dont have any decks that wouldnt be able to take her out. My biggest and 2nd biggest fighter in any deck could have her easy, twice! 8 IS enuf be sneezed at. I laugh at minions that are anything less than 11 strength really.

Underestimate her at your own risk.

[lem0nhead]

Haha if thats your final word then fair enough lol i cant argue. 

[DáinIronfoot]

Well...alright. If you think she needs a little sprucing up, here are a couple options I've thought of:

- Add a little ambush. This fits perfectly with her stalking nature, and would combo nicely with cards like Sting of Shelob and some other regroup cards I have in mind.

- Change the last line of her text to either "At the start of each skirmish involving Shelob, you may exert or heal her" or the similiar "At the start of each fierce skirmish involving Shelob, you may exert or heal her". This would give her a small built-in pump to help her compensate for not being able to otherwise exert, but I personally am worried that either--and especially the first of the two--would make her TOO good.

I dunno, though. What do YOU think, my juicy friend?

[lem0nhead]

Well bearded one I agree with you on both fronts. First ambush is a nice idea and does fit in as you say but thats a lot of keywords lol.

Second, i share your worries, yes its a good way, but yes it can get a bit sick. Maybe add the ambush and see what the spammer and Thran say.

Cheers

[DáinIronfoot]

Well bearded one I agree with you on both fronts. First ambush is a nice idea and does fit in as you say but thats a lot of keywords lol.

Second, i share your worries, yes its a good way, but yes it can get a bit sick. Maybe add the ambush and see what the spammer and Thran say.

Done.

We really need to come up with a nickname for Thran. Just don't want him to feel left out, ya know?

[lem0nhead]

I hear that but he doesnt give us anything to work with. Hes a straight arrow, not confrontational not a spammer and dignified. Hes just an dc-ing elf king from the hobbit!

[Anvar]

Love these cards. I would (hesitantly) disagree with Lemon here, as I'm not sure what the Ambush adds to the card. It isn't really a theme of Gollum culture and I doubt it would have much relevance. As is, your Shelob provides what the others do not - a beatdown spider with potential price reduction. Sounds good to me.

Anvar

[Thranduil]

I agree with Anvar on Shelob.

But I don't understand why there's a limit on Gollum's twilight reduction. Why would you want to remove more than 2 threats when his minimum twilight cost is anyway?

Thranduil

[sickofpalantirs]

•Shelob, Dark Terror of Cirith Ungol
Minion • Spider
Strength: 8
Vitality: 8
Site: 8
Enduring. Damage +1. Fierce. Toil 2. Ambush .
Shelob may not be exerted by other Shadow cards.
Each time Shelob wins a skirmish, you may exert or heal her.
"As for Sauron: he knew where she lurked....So they both lived, delighting in their own devices, and feared no assault, nor wrath, nor any end to their wickedness. Never yet had any fly escaped from Shelob's webs, and the greater now was her rage and hunger."
nice lore ...we need the thumbs up smiley. Good card.

•Gollum, Brings Nice Food
Minion
Strength: 5
Vitality: 4
Site: 3
When you play Gollum, you may remove X threats (limit 2) to make his twilight cost -X.
Skirmish: Exert Gollum to make a minion strength +1 (or +2 if skirmishing a Ring-bound companion).
"Gollum withdrew himself, and a green glint flickered under his heavy lids. Almost spider-like he looked now, crouched back on his bent limbs, with his protruding eyes."

maybe +2, or +3 is skirmishing...