Towers Standard Sealed League

[dmaz]

Hello everyone,

Currently in GEMP we have 5 running sealed leagues, I believe. FotR, TT, RotK, WotR and Movie.

Out of all of these, one of the leagues I enjoy the most is the Movie one. I think some people here could agree! The combination of the cool elements of Movie block, with the exciting aspect of SEALED just makes for a great league.

So since the Movie sealed was successful, why not reach for Towers Standard?

I got in touch with MarcinS, and he said he would be fine with uploading the TS Sealed "starter" decks for each serie. He explained to me the correct format to write them up in. All we need to do now, if you are all interested, is define the starter decks and booster support for each serie!

My plan of action is:

1. Brainstorm, discuss possible themes for each starter
2. Vote on overall themes for each starter
3. Decide on number of starter options per serie and what booster support for each serie
4. Develop card lists and playtest these card lists
5. Finalize card lists that are both playable and balanced (outside of the booster support)
6. Send to MarcinS

This thread we can use for the initial brainstorming and over discussion of the progress of the project.

Who's with me?  

ADDED: Here is the link to the Starter Deck Theme poll. Let your opinions be heard!
http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,9009.0.html

[Prince_of_Ithilien]

Just off the top of my head to get an idea rolling:
-a player could start by choosing two starter decks (one fellowship block, one towers block)
and
-choice of 4-6 boosters (from sets 1-6)
-grant 2-3 boosters (choice of sets 1-6) for each series

[dmaz]

Overall, for a TS Sealed league, I feel like it would be nice to launch some starters that have themes that have not been touched on at all with the existing sealed decks.

As far as Shadow goes, there will always be some repetition, but I really think there are some combos or strategies in general which would benefit from having their own starter. In the end, everyone would be having some fresh experiences, working with combinations of cards that they probably have not in the past

I'll just throw down some of my ideas to the list, going serie by serie...this doesn't mean that I think that one deck would be limited to that serie in particular...it might just fit there a little better.

I'll underline the ones that I feel stronger about. Let me know what you think and please post your own!

FoTR / TT

FELLOWSHIP
Rangers - a combination of the rangers from FOTR Block, and maybe a couple Ringbound ones from TT. Splash a No Stranger to the Shadows or two and some athelas
Rohan/Gandalf
Dwarf/Gandalf
Shoulder to Shoulder - I think a starter deck centered around this card would be very cool
Gondor/Stealth Hobbits
Gandalf/Stealth Hobbits

SHADOW
Isengard Trackers - Maybe include the one tracker from RotEL and throw in some Saruman's Ambition...
Easterlings
Dunland
Southron

MoM/BoHD

FELLOWSHIP
Elf Archery
Gondor Knights - I think a starter based on knights would be cool...even if the pool is limited, you could add some support from FotR Block
Smeagol/Hobbit Choke
Ringbound Companions

SHADOW
Twilight Nazgul - I really think its time for these guys to make their debut. They may not be the strongest, but with some support from Fell Beast and set 6 Nertea, they should put up a fight in a Sealed environment. Would be a lot of fun.
Sauron Trackers
Archery
Warg-Riders - Maybe these guys should get left out since they already have a starter? Maybe they could be combined with something?
Berserk Uruks and Machines

RotEL/EoF

FELLOWSHIP
Last Alliance - Elves and Gondor companions
Help in Doubt and Need - Rohan and Gondor companions
Shire Pipeweed/Dwarf Tanks - just trying to think outside the box, haha
Ent Hordes

SHADOW
Sauron Discarding
Gollum/Easterlings - combine Easterlings with the Gollum and his events that add burdens and wound for skirmish wins.
"Stupid Swarm" - This would be the classic combination of Isengard and Moria orcs
News of Mordor - Nazgul and Isengard minions (possibly orcs like Isengard Smith)

Also, as a general discussion topic, what are peoples' thoughts on including Cavern Entrance in one of the starters. In the TT sealed, it doesn't look like it shows up in any of the starters...maybe because it is so powerful a card? What does everyone think?

[dmaz]

Just off the top of my head to get an idea rolling:
-a player could start by choosing two starter decks (one fellowship block, one towers block)
and
-choice of 4-6 boosters (from sets 1-6)
-grant 2-3 boosters (choice of sets 1-6) for each series

This was where my mind went right away! The positive aspects to this is that it would take a lot less work to set up, and could effectively be launched in one day

However, if the base card pool of decks is coming from pre-existing starters the amount of "new experience" each player would get would be truncated a little.
For example, it would be a new experience to play the FotR Gandalf starter with Moria on the TT site path...maybe you would combine it with Dunland for swarm factor...but the meat of your deck is still coming from cards and strategies that people have played against before...
If we completely design brand new starter decks, which was done for the Movie sealed, we would have completely fresh and interesting games every serie.

[Eukalyptus]

Like in Movie, some cards from later sets could be added, or some P cards.

And I strongly advise against using EoF orcs for any of the preconstructed starters. Mixing those with RotEL orcs would just be too powerful, both in swarming as well as wounding capability.

I'll voice some thoughts on the matter after I've had time to think about it, BUT I'm still negative about MarcinS to actually implement the decks once they're finished. Let's hope I'll be proven wrong!

Edit: This thread would have been better at Valinor

[sgtdraino]

Just a word of caution, any starter decks you create need to be playtested extensively for balance. You can be sure that decipher extensively playtested the starters they released, and we still have arguments about whether or not they are balanced. So ALOT of testing is needed.

[Eukalyptus]

I agree with draino here, except for the point that Decipher did actual playtesting after Shadows.

Here's a first draft for a Knight freeps. Boy, this sure ain't easy.

Ring-bearer: Frodo, Son of Drogo
Ring: The One Ring, The Ruling Ring

Adventure deck:

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
2x Faramir, Son of Denethor
2x Gondorian Knight
1x Turgon, Man of Belfalas
1x Merry, From O'er the Brandywine
1x Armor
1x Banner of Westernesse
1x Knight's Mount
2x Sword of Gondor
2x Hobbit Sword
2x Dagger Strike
2x War Must Be
1x Citadel of the Stars
2x City Wall
2x First Level
1x Garrison of Osgiliath

I was thinking about White Tree Guard, but opted for Knights Mount as outsider card. While Guard is practically just a 3-7 companion, adding another Knight isn't that good imo. Those Fortifications shouldn't be usable for free that easily. I also thought about including Pippin, GOMT, but ditched him as well, to not provide a serious cycling ability.

This side has 23 cards, forcing to use whatever booser packs are available. I would have preferred 25, but I haven't found any useful cards and upping the companion count is also a no go imo.

[dmaz]

The ball is rolling!  

Like in Movie, some cards from later sets could be added, or some P cards.

I definitely agree! There are some good P cards that we could splash into any given theme without ruining the TS element.

And I strongly advise against using EoF orcs for any of the preconstructed starters. Mixing those with RotEL orcs would just be too powerful, both in swarming as well as wounding capability.

Very good point... In the all cards league I got stomped by a combined Isengard orc deck that was comprised of nearly all commons and uncomons anyway. Do you think a stupid swarm that didn't incorporate any of the wounding in regroup phase would still be too much?

I'll voice some thoughts on the matter after I've had time to think about it, BUT I'm still negative about MarcinS to actually implement the decks once they're finished. Let's hope I'll be proven wrong!

I'm hopeful, or at the very least, motivated

Edit: This thread would have been better at Valinor

True... Forgot that there was the one exclusively for online play. I'll definitely post the voting and play testing on there

[Eukalyptus]

Swarm in general is bad in a Sealed. It limits the pack choices heavily, since Hobbit protection is all FotR and TT. I never died to swarm last FotR Sealed, but I had enough protection going on. Not gonna happen here if we want to push diversity rather than "hey, this is the safest way to go!"

EoF orcs are fine. If someone desires to build such a swarm shadow, he would have to choose RotEL packs, which would be fine. If we implement those orcs, of course. Also, Sealed is mostly flooding the pool and see what comes. Such a shadow would empty its hand every time.

[dmaz]

Just a word of caution, any starter decks you create need to be playtested extensively for balance. You can be sure that decipher extensively playtested the starters they released, and we still have arguments about whether or not they are balanced. So ALOT of testing is needed.

This will be the most time consuming part of this process for sure... At least we don't have to develop the cards themselves

At the very least we'll need several games of each possible combination for each serie playing eachother...

[Prince_of_Ithilien]

This was where my mind went right away! The positive aspects to this is that it would take a lot less work to set up, and could effectively be launched in one day

If we completely design brand new starter decks, which was done for the Movie sealed, we would have completely fresh and interesting games every serie.

Ah, ok - wasn't aware of how the Movie block was run (wasn't around for that one).  I'll get to stirring up a few ideas, then   :-)

[Prince_of_Ithilien]

Overall, for a TS Sealed league, I feel like it would be nice to launch some starters that have themes that have not been touched on at all with the existing sealed decks.

Shoulder to Shoulder - I think a starter deck centered around this card would be very cool

I've made one of these - it can be a very, very fun one!

Twilight Nazgul - I really think its time for these guys to make their debut. They may not be the strongest, but with some support from Fell Beast and set 6 Nertea, they should put up a fight in a Sealed environment. Would be a lot of fun.

I've also found this to be a fun one - one challenge is the potential number of rares needed to make it most effective (Witch-King lotn and Nelya come to mind).  While certainly do-able, those rares would need to be balanced out to make other decks on par.

Also, as a general discussion topic, what are peoples' thoughts on including Cavern Entrance in one of the starters. In the TT sealed, it doesn't look like it shows up in any of the starters...maybe because it is so powerful a card? What does everyone think?

I think choice of site 7 would ultimately be based around what the final decks look like.  Personally, getting killed by an ill-timed Bill Ferny at Cavern Entrance is like getting hit by lighting because you were holding up a lolli-pop stick: dang embarrassing, but it makes for a funny story, but only if you live  :-)

[Eukalyptus]

No Cavern. Starters are designed so you could play everything. Cavern negates that. If a player pulls one, fine. Otherwise I'd recommend against it. Also, no R cards even if it's just the P pendant like from the CttK collection.

[dmaz]

No Cavern. Starters are designed so you could play everything. Cavern negates that. If a player pulls one, fine. Otherwise I'd recommend against it. Also, no R cards even if it's just the P pendant like from the CttK collection.

Ok cool, I think everyone else will agree that we can settle the matter on leaving them out. While I was debating it, it just didn't feel like a necessary card, but this explains the situation perfectly.

I also agree on not adding rare cards. Even for a strategy like Twilight Nazgul, as its a starter deck, I think having twilight Enquea on a Fell Beast as your big hitter isn't too bad...

[dmaz]

I agree with draino here, except for the point that Decipher did actual playtesting after Shadows.

Here's a first draft for a Knight freeps. Boy, this sure ain't easy.

Ring-bearer: Frodo, Son of Drogo
Ring: The One Ring, The Ruling Ring

Adventure deck:

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
2x Faramir, Son of Denethor
2x Gondorian Knight
1x Turgon, Man of Belfalas
1x Merry, From O'er the Brandywine
1x Armor
1x Banner of Westernesse
1x Knight's Mount
2x Sword of Gondor
2x Hobbit Sword
2x Dagger Strike
2x War Must Be
1x Citadel of the Stars
2x City Wall
2x First Level
1x Garrison of Osgiliath

I was thinking about White Tree Guard, but opted for Knights Mount as outsider card. While Guard is practically just a 3-7 companion, adding another Knight isn't that good imo. Those Fortifications shouldn't be usable for free that easily. I also thought about including Pippin, GOMT, but ditched him as well, to not provide a serious cycling ability.

This side has 23 cards, forcing to use whatever booser packs are available. I would have preferred 25, but I haven't found any useful cards and upping the companion count is also a no go imo.

I like it so far! I wanna dig a littler deeper on it later too, but this just came to mind: what about possibly addding: http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/lotr00023 as a companion?

EDIT: Is there a standard card count for each of the created Movie sealed starters?