Elrond's Continuing Council set 20

[simplegarak]

Why don't we have a continuing council like Star Trek?

So, set of virtual cards, max 54.  Given that it's number 20, seems it should be something special like "reflections 2" or something.  What should we call it?

Finally, before we start throwing out cards, how is the state of the game?  Are there degenerate strategies that need to be reigned in?  Rarely played strategies that could stand a boost?  Throw it out there and possible answers.  We'll worry about balancing later.

[Air Power]

Check the discussion here: http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/board,40.0.html

Long story short: Decipher set up the Players' Committee for SWCCG because they wanted to maintain a fanbase that would transition to LotRTCG.  They didn't care when LotR died, so they didn't set it up.  The players tried to organize one, but ran into legal questions and didn't want to hire a lawyer to figure it out.

Short of that, people just create whatever projects they want (Second Edition was bandied about for a while, but then I think people realized how challenging overhauling the whole game really is.)

[sgtdraino]

Check the discussion here: http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/board,40.0.html

Long story short: Decipher set up the Players' Committee for SWCCG because they wanted to maintain a fanbase that would transition to LotRTCG.  They didn't care when LotR died, so they didn't set it up.  The players tried to organize one, but ran into legal questions and didn't want to hire a lawyer to figure it out.

Short of that, people just create whatever projects they want (Second Edition was bandied about for a while, but then I think people realized how challenging overhauling the whole game really is.)

This (although the link you gave is not to a specific thread).

The player base for LOTR TCG is pretty fractured when it comes to what we think should or should not be changed or added to the game. Since Decipher didn't set up any kind of committee, there isn't any person (or people) that speaks with sufficient authority that the player base is just going to accept what they say.

The consensus for now (and the foreseeable future) is to simply rely strictly on official rules, rulings, and clarifications that came down from Decipher. No new cards, formats, or rules.

To top that off, for many of us, playing LOTR TCG on a daily basis means playing it online via Gemp. Gemp is a website that was created and is maintained by one guy, MarcinS. He has absolute control over what rules, formats, and cards people can use there, and for the most part, he is a strict adherent to the "nothing new" policy. In addition, he really doesn't make changes to Gemp very often anymore, so even if he were to consider allowing new stuff into the game, the chances that you could actually get him to sit down and code that in are very slim.

So a committee can invent all the new stuff they want, but (1) most of the player base isn't going to listen to them, and (2) even if the player base were in favor of it, new stuff almost certainly isn't going to end up on Gemp, and so committee decisions would have zero effect on the way many of us play the game.

[simplegarak]

To top that off, for many of us, playing LOTR TCG on a daily basis means playing in online via Gemp. Gemp is a website that was created and is maintained by one guy, MarcinS. He has absolute control over what rules, formats, and cards people can use there, and for the most part, he is a strict adherent to the "nothing new" policy. In addition, he really doesn't make changes to Gemp very often anymore, so even if he were to consider allowing new stuff into the game, the chances that you could actually get him to sit down and code that in are very slim.

So a committee can invent all the new stuff they want, but (1) most of the player base isn't going to listen to them, and (2) even if the player base were in favor of it, new stuff almost certainly isn't going to end up on Gemp, and so committee decisions would have zero effect on the way many of us play the game.

Ok, so those who become a part of the committee have to agree to help out MarcinS on gemp?  If he gives me a syntax overview I can help program (not much for graphical work, though).

And to start we can very much work on creating cards that work within existing rule structures.  Like...

<3> *Sauron, the Lidless Eye
Follower
+1 vit
Aid - Remove a burden or threat.
Each time bearer wins a skirmish, you may discard a follower or ally from play.

<2> Orthanc's Armory
Condition * Support Area
Shadow: Stack a shadow possession from hand onto this card.
Maneuver: Remove (1) to play a possession stacked on this card as if from hand.


Like I've said, I've not played with the hunters block and later near enough to know how well things are or aren't working in current expanded.

[Ringbearer]

I think if a committee is formed that new cards arent the first thing to do. There were people before who thought of making new cards, but you need to have a system first that workds, THEn see if you can agree on new cards.

Not to mention the legal system of using copywrited artwork and names.

[sgtdraino]

Ok, so those who become a part of the committee have to agree to help out MarcinS on gemp?  If he gives me a syntax overview I can help program (not much for graphical work, though).

You are welcome to try, but as far as I know MarcinS has never given anybody that level of access before. The most he has done, is given certain players the ability to set up the league schedules, and to moderate players who are violating the code of conduct.

[dmaz]

Seems like the closest thing we have to a functioning council is the group right here.

Almost everyone is pretty set on leaving things the way they are, but there are some minor exceptions. For example, we've recently been developing a new sealed league, which would include new precronstructed starter decks, and I'm trying to work on developing new formats to play the same cards, but in different ways

[simplegarak]

I think if a committee is formed that new cards arent the first thing to do. There were people before who thought of making new cards, but you need to have a system first that workds, THEn see if you can agree on new cards.

Not to mention the legal system of using copywrited artwork and names.

You put credits on the images/pages, no big deal.  Legal shouldn't be a problem any more than using LotR gifs on like tumblr or something.

So what else we need?  New formats?  (Shadows block + Fellowship!  Hunters + RotK!)  Connections?  Petitions?  Bug the tar out of cryptozoic?

You are welcome to try, but as far as I know MarcinS has never given anybody that level of access before. The most he has done, is given certain players the ability to set up the league schedules, and to moderate players who are violating the code of conduct.

Fair enough, and I can get where he's coming from, I'm just saying: maybe make it a rule that those on the council have to agree to help out MarcinS as much as possible.  Heck he doesn't even have to give access, he can just say: "Here's the syntax for creating a card module" and then those of us capable can write up new modules for him to plug into the system (or however it works).

Seems like the closest thing we have to a functioning council is the group right here.

Almost everyone is pretty set on leaving things the way they are, but there are some minor exceptions. For example, we've recently been developing a new sealed league, which would include new precronstructed starter decks, and I'm trying to work on developing new formats to play the same cards, but in different ways

Alright.  What do you need?  House rules?  Physical vs virtual set ups? etc

[Ringbearer]

Again, using the images is a breach of copyright, especially when using then in a game. There is a reason the Star Wars Committee uses existing cards or fan-made images.

You jump on the bandwagon too much, thinkign a committee is formed inmediately. The last time we tried we failed on several aspects, the most important one: recognition. A lot of people on GEMP dont even know this exsists and they just come there. Why should they follow someone they dont know, who has no known experience, and at this moment has no plan.

[simplegarak]

Again, using the images is a breach of copyright, especially when using then in a game. There is a reason the Star Wars Committee uses existing cards or fan-made images.

But the star trek cc uses new images all the time.  They even make virtual promo cards which are often reprints of old, physically existing cards but with new pics.

You jump on the bandwagon too much, thinkign a committee is formed inmediately. The last time we tried we failed on several aspects, the most important one: recognition. A lot of people on GEMP dont even know this exsists and they just come there. Why should they follow someone they dont know, who has no known experience, and at this moment has no plan.

Not immediately, just know that all things have to begin somewhere and it's easier to stand around and talk about beginning than to actually start.  Not even asking to lead, just saying let's do something, and I'll help any way I can.

[Ringbearer]

I understand where you come from, I am just saying we tried before and failed on many ways. I think we should just accept that a committee has no effect anymore. People play liek they used to and thats it. been too long a dead game for a committee to have any effect.

[dmaz]

Again, using the images is a breach of copyright, especially when using then in a game. There is a reason the Star Wars Committee uses existing cards or fan-made images.

Ok, now I have a question.  I've started working on custom artwork for the starter decks for the TS Sealed league. Having the boxes look like this when people choose their starter will give a little more excitement and generate interest.

After reading your comment here though, I'm worried that it might be a copyright violation if we actually use them for the game, as I made the box from a screenshot in the movie, and photoshopped it a little.

I know the internet is full of photoshopped LOTR screenshots, which apparently aren't a problem, would this fit into the same category? Or not because I can't justify that it's actual purpose is to show the power of photoshop?

If us using box images like this one for the game IS in violation of copyright, what would be the alternate options? Could I just dump an image from an already-existing card on there instead?

[sgtdraino]

Quite honestly everything that happens on Gemp is a breach of copyright. If Decipher or New Line Cinema took notice and wanted to shut it down, they could do so in a heartbeat.

[simplegarak]

Quite honestly everything that happens on Gemp is a breach of copyright. If Decipher or New Line Cinema took notice and wanted to shut it down, they could do so in a heartbeat.

How is it?  I haven't tried it out yet (last time I played online was vassal) but it would only be a violation if profit was being made from it or it didn't have copyrights listed SOMEWHERE (are the cards scanned images? if so the copyright should be on there).

Then again I'm speaking of US copyrights.  Does it violate cr in another country?  Otherwise I say go for it, dmaz.  I like the look of your work.

[Ringbearer]

I am not an expert but using the images in any way is considering breach of copyright. Its depends tho on the size of breach if it is worth prosecuting. So they might know about GEMP and dont care, since its use of exsisting materials released by new Line Cinema, who has full rights of Tolkien Enterprise for the movies.

If they feel tho it will cause them harm and it is worth it, you can expect cease and desist orders. Christopher Tolkien is very protective of his grandfathers legacy.

If you look at the Star Wars Committee, they had long term contacts with both Decipher and LucasArt and they never made any new images from the movies, just some CGI and cosplay. Not to mention how it goes now since Disney bought Star Wars.

All in all its a legal jungle with mixed rights and influences, so no-one can for certain tell whats gonna happen.