multi-player question

[CrdTrd]

bill - free peoples player
jeff - shadow player 1
chris - shadow player 2


if both jeff and chris are playing nazguls and chris has Black Marshal in his support area, could chris exert one of jeff's nazguls to play an orc and one token ?

this was confusing for our game last nite...especially since on Fear it says, 'exert YOUR nazgul', but on other cards (such as Black Marshal) it says 'exert A nazgul'.

are there times when you can play off other shadow players cards and times when you cant ?

thanks for any help.

[mardukra]

Yup, you pretty much answered your own question   If the card doesn't say 'your' then you may use other players shadow cards.

[Witchkingx5]

I also think so, that's why the cards have been worded like that, so it should actually work with Black Marshal.

[mardukra]

On this topic, how many shadow phases are there at each site in a 3-player game?  In particular for cards such as:  Spurred to Battle (11U139) and Vile Pit(17C118.)

[Tbiesty]

There is a separate shadow phase for each Shadow player.

If the card doesn't say 'your' then you may use other players shadow cards.

So would that mean another Shadow player could discard my Saruman's Ambition to make an Uruk-hai strength +2?

[Thranduil]

Yup, you pretty much answered your own question   If the card doesn't say 'your' then you may use other players shadow cards.

I'm really not sure about that. I'm almost certain you can't use abilities on other people's cards. That's like a Shadow player fighting Wearer of Black and Silver saying "I return Pippin to MY hand".

Another Shadow player can, however, use cards in a way to support you. So in a skirmish involving YOUR Uruk-hai, he can pump your minion with Saruman's Ambition. But the OWNER OF THE CARD is using the ability, not you. Otherwise you could just discard them all for no effect whenever you wanted so that your fellowship wouldn't have to fight them.

Thranduil

[stimpy]

I searched the rules briefly to try to find support for this... but can't find any.

From my memory though I believe Thranduil is absolutely correct. I don't think one shadow player can exert another player's minion in this scenario. And there can't be any 'mixing' of shadow phases - as in, during Chris's shadow phase, Jeff couldn't choose to then exert one of his Nazgul to allow Chris to play an orc. If black marshal was in play, Jeff or Chris could use its ability during his own shadow phase using his own Nazgul (regardless of who played the condition), but that's all.

I agree that the wording of "your" v. "a" Nazgul in different scenarios is confusing.

[Elessar's Socks]

Looked through the Comprehensive Rulebook for "Shadow player" and "multiplayer"; hope this covers most of the multiplayer rules, one piece at a time:

Playing sites

If your fellowship moves to a site that has not been played yet, one of the Shadow players must place a new site on the adventure path. To determine which player, look at the site you are moving from. Each site has an arrow at the bottom center of the card. This indicates who is to play the new site, with ---> meaning the Shadow player to your right and <--- meaning the Shadow player to your left.

Playing Shadow cards

A Shadow player cannot play a Shadow artifact, condition, or possession on another Shadow player's minion, or to another player's support area. However, Shadow cards may give bonuses or other game effects to other players' Shadow cards, and Shadow players may play events for other players' Shadow cards as appropriate.

Archery fire

All Shadow players count the number of all their minions with the keyword archer to determine the "minion archery total." No matter how many Shadow players there are, there is only one minion archery total.

[The Free Peoples player] then chooses one Shadow player who must assign a number of wounds equal to the fellowship archery total to his minions, in any way he wishes.

Assign defenders

When you [the Free Peoples player] have informed the Shadow players that you are done making assignments, they may assign any leftover unassigned minions to any companions (even if those companions are already assigned). The first Shadow player on your right may assign any of his unassigned minions, and so on, counter-clockwise around the table.

active

Occasionally in a multiplayer game, two copies of the same unique Shadow condition may be in play at the same time. Only the first copy of a unique Shadow condition (or the first 4 copies of a non-unique Shadow condition) closest to the right of the Free Peoples player are in effect at any time. All other copies are also active, but their game text is ignored.

Shadow phase(S)

After your fellowship phase, each other player in the game, starting with the player immediately to your right, has one Shadow phase.

When one Shadow player has completed all of the Shadow actions he wishes to perform, the next Shadow player to his right (if any) then performs a Shadow phase.

Shadow players may converse and plan among themselves. They may name cards in their hands, but they cannot actually show each other those cards. They may make agreements, but those agreements are not binding.

You may use (and exert) another player's character to pay a cost for your Shadow card or special ability.

twilight cost

All Shadow players pay for cards by using the same twilight pool. The second Shadow player uses twilight tokens left over from the first Shadow player, and so on.

[Thranduil]

You may use (and exert) another player's character to pay a cost for your Shadow card or special ability.

Here's the point. You can't use another player's Black Marshal, but you CAN exert another player's Nazgûl to pay the cost for your own Black Marshal. That's the difference between "your" and "a".

Thranduil

[stimpy]

Well, it appears that's correct then - sorry for being off-base. Thanks for helping me learn, too.

To me this also suggests that each shadow player plays a new shadow phase, and therefore spurred to battle and vile pit would trigger twice per turn in a 3-player game (as asked above). Do others agree?

[mardukra]

If the card doesn't say 'your' then you may use other players shadow cards.

So would that mean another Shadow player could discard my Saruman's Ambition to make an Uruk-hai strength +2?

[/quote]

I didn't mean a player could activate another player's card.  I meant that one of your shadow cards could 'use' another player's shadow card if your card didn't specify to 'use' 'your' shadow cards.

[Thranduil]

Well, it appears that's correct then - sorry for being off-base. Thanks for helping me learn, too.

To me this also suggests that each shadow player plays a new shadow phase, and therefore spurred to battle and vile pit would trigger twice per turn in a 3-player game (as asked above). Do others agree?

Vile Pit certainly, as it says "each Shadow phase". I assume Spurred to Battle is the same (even though it says "the Shadow phase", but it needs a clarification.

Thranduil