LOTR TCG support in the future

[Tbiesty]

Greetings to all LOTR TCG players out there!

I've enjoyed playing LOTR TCG since around 2001 with a group of about 6 close friends.  Even though Decipher's support of the game ended in 2007, my friends and I continue to play, as many of you do.  I wanted to share with others my thoughts on continuing support for LOTR TCG.

Since we continue to play this complex game, the need for consistent and trustworthy support of gameplay rulings is required.  So, with a Rulebook and a Current Rulings Document (CRD) that haven't been updated for years, we attempt to address card and gameplay rulings on a case-by-case basis on this forum.  Sometimes we come to a total consensus because there is no doubt what the Rulebook or CRD says, but other times the Rulebook and CRD just does not address a specific case clearly (or perhaps not at all).  Without that guidance, we try our best to provide a good ruling interpretation when a question comes up.  There may be differences in opinion because of lack of clear guidance from the Rulebook or CRD, and perhaps not everyone can agree on a ruling.  So without a clear, "official" ruling, we are all left to pick our own ruling and run with it.  If the question comes up again, another forum topic that may involve a completely different set of opinions, and perhaps come to a yet another conclusion, is possible.  This is where we are today.

I would like to see the CRD once again be a "current" rulings document, a "living" document that identifies these rulings and is regularly updated, so gameplay integrity is preserved.  Now, not just anyone can update the "official" rulebooks and CRD; that is something that Decipher would need to provide a group of people with authority to do so.  This group of people would be the LOTR TCG Player's Committee (PC).  There may be other activities that this PC would be authorized to do, but I'm focusing on gameplay integrity, which I think is a top priority.

Another part of gameplay integrity I believe is to improve the quality of playability, without adding complexity.  The way I believe this should be done is to allow all cards to be playable by the PC providing a clear, easy-to-access document that spells out all card errata.  This document would also include card inserts that contain the actual errata game text; players could cut out and place the inserts right in the card sleeve, so the game text is right on the card.  I think outright banning cards is bad for the game; we need a smarter approach.  Again, this single "official" document would need to be clear and easy-to-access to prevent adding complexity.  By having a single "official" card errata document that applies to all formats, we eliminate the need for the multiple X-lists, R-lists, etc., which are not even consistent between formats.

Since learning about TLHH website in April 2010, I've grown excited to know there are other players out there that play this great game.  I also recognize that reliable and consistent support for this game is needed to ensure its continuation and integrity.  Many people (including me) have contacted Decipher about the status of them authorizing a PC.  Here is a reply (dated May 27, 2010) I received from Decipher about a Player's Committee:  

"Troy,

Multiple people have approached us about authorizing a Player's Committee for LOTR, however, we are just not ready to do that. There are lots of issues on the backend legal side that we simply can't get cleared at the moment. That said, I'm not at all against the concept (as you know from our Star Wars CCG and Star Trek CCG support).

While you clearly are free to make inserts for personal use, I'm afraid that I can't yet authorize public distribution of such items. At some point, I suspect we will pick a group and authorize them to use our proprietary rights in such an endeavor. For the next year or so, however, that is not likely.

All the best,
Warren"

I would encourage others to contact Warren <warren.holland@decipher.com> and let him know that you are interested in a PC.  Clearly, Decipher is aware that there are those of us that would like a PC established; we just need to wait for them to make the next move.  I would only hope that the more people that let Warren know there is interest, the earlier they will take that step.

So until Decipher gives some group the green light, which hopefully includes many of us at TLHH, I will just continue using this forum to preserve the game we enjoy as best I can in an "unofficial" capacity.

Sincerely,

Tbiesty

[Imrahil]

stalling

[ket_the_jet]

I don't want to really get into this [everything] again, but this is a big "who cares?" to me. Some people play; some people don't. I think the D-crew are about as non-committal as anyone could be and that's fine too.
-wtk

[Tbiesty]

Questions about some responses:

stalling

Not completely sure what you mean, but I'm guessing you mean that Decipher just seems to be stalling.  If so, I very much agree.  Unfortunately, there are just some things that nobody will be allowed to do until they give permission.

I don't want to really get into this [everything] again, but this is a big "who cares?" to me. Some people play; some people don't. I think the D-crew are about as non-committal as anyone could be and that's fine too.
-wtk

Not sure what you were trying to say here.  I hope you meant more than just "I don't think anyone cares what you have to say."  If not, I consider that very rude.  Otherwise, would you mind clarifying?

[ket_the_jet]

I'm not saying that I don't care what you, personally, have to say, Tbiesty. I'm am saying that I'm about tired of the Player's Committee pipe dream.
-wtk

[Kenddrick]

I'm not saying that I don't care what you, personally, have to say, Tbiesty. I'm am saying that I'm about tired of the Player's Committee pipe dream.
-wtk

That is not the first time you've told us that. We already know what you think, and we DON'T CARE.

[chompers]

I'm not saying that I don't care what you, personally, have to say, Tbiesty. I'm am saying that I'm about tired of the Player's Committee pipe dream.
-wtk

That is not the first time you've told us that. We already know what you think, and we DON'T CARE.

I agree (at least as far as PC stuff goes) .. but thats just me and forums are free for anyone to comment. To be fair, Ket is tired of us reiterating the same point again and again.

I do really think this has hit a brick wall though based on recent posts ... but that is just my opinion.

Unfortunately, my involvement in a finished game will be limited without a PC keeping the game alive ... and that is why from my perspective we need to pursue this as far as it can go.

[Tbiesty]

Added a couple updates to my initial post...

[chompers]

Since we continue to play this complex game, the need for consistent and trustworthy support of gameplay rulings is required.  So, with a Rulebook and a Current Rulings Document (CRD) that haven't been updated for years, we attempt to address card and gameplay rulings on a case-by-case basis on this forum.  Sometimes we come to a total consensus because there is no doubt what the Rulebook or CRD says, but other times the Rulebook and CRD just does not address a specific case clearly (or perhaps not at all).  Without that guidance, we try our best to provide a good ruling interpretation when a question comes up.  There may be differences in opinion because of lack of clear guidance from the Rulebook or CRD, and perhaps not everyone can agree on a ruling.  So without a clear, "official" ruling, we are all left to pick our own ruling and run with it.  If the question comes up again, another forum topic that may involve a completely different set of opinions, and perhaps come to a yet another conclusion, is possible.  This is where we are today.

I would like to see the CRD once again be a "current" rulings document, a "living" document that identifies these rulings and is regularly updated, so gameplay integrity is preserved.  Now, not just anyone can update the "official" rulebooks and CRD; that is something that Decipher would need to provide a group of people with authority to do so.  This group of people would be the LOTR TCG Player's Committee (PC).  There may be other activities that this PC would be authorized to do, but I'm focusing on gameplay integrity, which I think is a top priority.

I actually think that a living CRD can easily be established in an unofficial capacity ... just call it the "Unofficial LOTR TCG CRD" and post in on the forums or better still the other website. Perhaps add "This document is not endorsed by Decipher". Those interested in using it will do so. There could even be a forum (already established) to discuss the contents that enter the CRD and appropriate wording. I think the only barrier to creating this is someone that is willing and capable of doing so. The other part that is necessary is gaining the respect of the community here at TLHH so that it becomes an accepted document. If eveyone is involved in some capacity I see no reason that it can't work.

Thoughts? Volunteers?

Action (or inaction) is one of the biggest barriers to a successful PC (official or unofficial) - whether it is endorsed by Decipher or not.

[Tbiesty]

I am absolutely willing to work on those documents.  Hopefully, from the help I give in the "Archives of Minas Tirith" forum, that others notice that gameplay integrity and consistent rulings are important to me.

[chompers]

I am absolutely willing to work on those documents.  Hopefully, from the help I give in the "Archives of Minas Tirith" forum, that others notice that gameplay integrity and consistent rulings are important to me.

Some things you may like to consider:
* I suggest you have a look at existing CRDs .... perhaps even look at the work of other PCs CRDs (Star Trek, Star Wars). Look at how they set it out, the wording they use (where appropriate insert the words Unofficial, not endorsed, etc.)
* I suggest you issue the document as a .pdf file so it can't be modified except by you.
* I would consider issuing different CRDs for the most popular formats ... or perhaps just focus on the format that your group plays.
* I suggest you try and rally some support so that you are not doing this alone ... use your gaming group, use the forums, try and establish using the chat chanel, maybe setup some polls to find out areas of need. Creating the file doesn't mean you are making the ruling but rather presenting a team of ideas (and a cnsensus that has been reached) in a document for future use.
* To start with perhaps pick one card or one concept used on many cards that has come up recently as a ruling issue and start there. Present a little bit of your work on TLHH and see what feedback you get before you go further.


Just some random thoughts .. they may or may not be of use. If you want some extra help i am willing to do so (perhaps via PM?). I am not sure my knowledge of the rules is good enough to help in making rulings, but I can search the archives and put together potential entries for the CRD. I may also be able to help with correct wording (although again I am not so sure how well I would go with that within the framework of LOTR).

From recent memory a good one to start with might be Gimli's Helm and the can't take more than one wound in skirmishes combined together with wound prevention and damage bonuses.

I could also probably write a step by step process for creating a new entry within the CRD that would involve all members of TLHH that choose to participate via the forums.

[Kenddrick]

My knowledge of how to make rule changes is very limited, but count me in! Willing to help the cause!

[chompers]

My knowledge of how to make rule changes is very limited, but count me in! Willing to help the cause!

I don't see this being about rule changes ... it would be a way to document decisions made on the forums in a concise and easy reference ... a tool to aid in playing the game. As the document is unofficial only those that choose to use it would. It also will not attract issues with Decipher.
 
Making it is one thing but gaining respect from community so they will use it is another. That will come depending on the quality of the document and the procedures used to make it.

It is also a way to demonstrate the qualifications and expertise someone or a group of people have.

[Tbiesty]

To get this started, I'm going to focus on existing rulings that have been done on this site. Here is a topic I created.  Please help if you can.