Steward's Tomb and Armor

[hrcho]

Hi!
This being my first post I would like to say hello to everyone here. I must say I've been using the lotrtcgdb site for some time now, but only recently have I discovered a forum (Eureka!)

Btw. Happy New Year everyone! (It's 5 AM in my country).

Past that greeting formalities, I do indeed have a question regarding Steward's Tomb and Armor (or cards with similar effect).

I understand the difference between "cannot take wounds" and "prevent wounds" but I do not know if Armor's effect translates as "cannot take more than 1 wound" or "prevent all wounds after the first". It says: "Bearer takes only 1 wound during each skirmish phase. Thus, I do not know if Steward's Tomb has any effect on Armor, Gimli's Helm or Swift Steed for example.

[Sam, Great Elf Warrior]

My guess would be that "cannot take wounds (after the first)"="prevent all wounds (after the first)" just as "kill"="place in the dead pile" (the latter being a statement I heard from someone at Decipher shortly after Saved From the Fire was released).

[Elessar's Socks]

I understand the difference between "cannot take wounds" and "prevent wounds" but I do not know if Armor's effect translates as "cannot take more than 1 wound" or "prevent all wounds after the first". It says: "Bearer takes only 1 wound during each skirmish phase. Thus, I do not know if Steward's Tomb has any effect on Armor, Gimli's Helm or Swift Steed for example.

The bearer cannot take more than 1 wound during each skirmish phase. If the bearer takes a threat wound, then no more threat wounds can be assigned to him that skirmish phase.

Steward's Tomb doesn't affect Armor and Swift Steed (both translate to "cannot"), but it does stop Gimli's Helm ("prevent").

[Kralik]

Concur with ES. Also see Swept Away or Consorting with Wizards ... cannot or may not is NOT the same as prevent.

[hrcho]

@ Kralik: I know that "cannot" is not the same as "prevent", that was never the question. Text of Armor doesn't mention either so which is it?

@ Elessar's Socks: I presumed as much, thank you. I mentioned Gimli's Helm for it's second sentence, as the third one clearly says "prevent". Anyway, thank you for clearing that up.

[TheJord]

The text of Armor states that the bearer cannot take more than 1 wound in a skirmish.  If it was prevent, it would say prevent all wounds after the first.

[sharkey]

Also, if armor was on, say, Isildur, BoH, Would he only take 1 burden against a damage +3 minion, instead of 4? ( assuming he was weraing the ring)

[hrcho]

As Armor says that bearer cannot take more than 1 wound, only one wound can be assigned to the bearer. If the bearer of armor also wears The Ring, only one burden is added instead of that wound.

However, if the text of Armor said "prevent wounds" instead of "cannot take wounds" the ring-bearer wearing the ring would have to take 4 burdens (if the minion is damage +3).

There is an example of Isildur, BoH wearing the Ring and about to take a wound (burden) which was to be prevented by discarding The Sapling of the White Tree, except that it cannot be done because it prevents wounds, not burdens.
That example is made in Comprehensive Rules 4.0 under response.

[Elgar]

As Armor says that bearer cannot take more than 1 wound, only one wound can be assigned to the bearer. If the bearer of armor also wears The Ring, only one burden is added instead of that wound.

However, if the text of Armor said "prevent wounds" instead of "cannot take wounds" the ring-bearer wearing the ring would have to take 4 burdens (if the minion is damage +3).

There is an example of Isildur, BoH wearing the Ring and about to take a wound (burden) which was to be prevented by discarding The Sapling of the White Tree, except that it cannot be done because it prevents wounds, not burdens.
That example is made in Comprehensive Rules 4.0 under response.

I disagree with part of this statement.  Wounds happen one at a time.  Because of this, Armor essentially says that wounds can not be assigned to the bearer *if he has already taken a wound in this skirmish*.  Therefore, your first example is incorrect.  If the RBer is wearing the one ring, he will still take burdens, as he has yet to take his wound for the skirmish.

Another example:
Gondor man with Armor loses to damege +1 minion.  If you use Sapling of the White tree to prevent a wound, this man would still take the second wound, since he had not yet taken a wound during that skirmish.

Your second example is also off if Armors text was manditory prevention (as I assume you mean).  There would be 2 manditory triggers (preventing the wounds, and the replacement of wounds with burdens)  In tihis case, if the ring were put on after the RBer had taken a wound for the skirmish, Armor would could prevent the other wounds before they were converted to burdens via the ring because the FP can order the manditory triggers.

The sapling example is correct because Sapling is not manditory.  Since all manditory triggers happen first, the wounds are replaced with burdens before the FP can use Sapling.  In other words, the RBer is no longer taking a wound when the FP can respond with Sapling.

[hrcho]

I did not know that wounds happen one at a time. Due to this new fact, I must agree with you about the Ring-bearer having to take burdens. That must also mean that Gondor wraiths cannot be killed even if they are not already exhausted and the FP has the initiative (Swept Away is active and in play). I thought that if a wraith that is not exhausted loses a skirmish against a minion with enough damage bonus, that wraith would be killed. Thank you very much.

As for the second example, I presumed that the ring-bearer is wearing the ring before the skirmish (I mostly use The One Ring, The Binding Ring) and armor could not prevent burdens.

[TheJord]

Nothing happens in LOTR TCG simultaneously, at least not until all POSSIBLE responses to an action have occured.

[Thranduil]

The text of Armor states that the bearer cannot take more than 1 wound in a skirmish.  If it was prevent, it would say prevent all wounds after the first.

For example, Lorien Protector.

Thranduil