Healthcare: The Truth Uncovered

[HawkeyeSPF]

Okay, kind of a hopeful thread title.

I'd like to talk about healthcare in the US, and the plans proposed by the two major candidates.

Please, no mudslinging herein. I'd love a simple discussion of the topic with opinions as they are, about what the candidates themselves have said about their plans and what they've listed as official platforms.

I want to start out with McCain's plan; here's what I know of it, please correct me on specifics or generalities if I've misheard something:

- The plan's basis is a $5000 tax credit with which to purchase healthcare. ($5k for families, $2500 for individuals) (quote from McCain's site: "While still having the option of employer-based coverage, every family will receive a direct refundable tax credit - effectively cash - of $2,500 for individuals and $5,000 for families to offset the cost of insurance. Families will be able to choose the insurance provider that suits them best and the money would be sent directly to the insurance provider.")

McCain assumes that (this is straight off of his own campaign site: johnmccain.com) competition among insurance providers will "improve the quality of health insurance with greater variety to match people's needs, lower prices, and portability."


First of all, I want to know what route the money takes; is it sent directly to the provider, is it paid for out of my pocket and then I'll get a tax credit next April, how does that work?

Second, I want to know how he can guarantee that competition will bring higher quality healthcare for lower prices. Innovation will go on either way, so what does this plan bring to the table that will cause that to increase relative to what it would have been anyway? Pharmaceutical companies do spend millions upon millions of dollars creating, testing, and bringing to market new and wonderful drugs that continue to amaze us all, but they also make money hand over fist selling those drugs as brand names, kicking money back to doctors who will recommend or even prescribe them over generics or competing brands, when really, they're as invested in the health of human beings as doctors are. Healthcare should not be a marketplace, it should be a place of convelescence, a place of healing. Doctors and those who create the drugs that heal us should revered as the noble people they are; they have dedicated their lives to helping others - there is no greater gift to humanity. Instead, many doctors and pharm. companies are seen as corrupt or dirty, and for good reason; they have acted unethically, or in the case of all pharm. companies, they have replaced the health of humanity with their own wealth as their prime concern.

It seems to me that if you let loose the insurance companies to ultimately decide what counts as a pre-existing condition or how long a person needs to stay in a hospital bed for what illness, or how much they can charge, that people will suffer, and suffer greatly.

I was surprised to see what current private health insurance would cost for me (at least an initial quote), and shocked to see that McCain's plan actually would cover the entire cost and more. I also like the (somewhat obvious if you think about it) benefit of portability of private health insurance.

One thing that I did not know was a part of McCain's plan, was that people will still have the option of employer-based coverage. Okay, that's great, but...will it become a thing of the past if companies know they no longer have to offer health insurance to attract employees? Sure, some places will still keep it as an incentive, and it won't happen overnight, but it will disappear as time goes on. After all, even with a great group rate, insurance is expensive for employers, which is why not every one of them offers it - if they can drop that expense, you bet they'll all - every single business in America - consider it as an option.

Lastly, and this may not be evident to some of you who aren't 28 with a 40-hour work week and 3 advanced accounting classes and married (no kids to pay for yet, thank God), but if you leave it to individuals and families to decide on a specific coverage, that a lot of people will remain or suddenly become uninsured, simply due to the hassel and complicatedness of it all. I have enough going on in my life as it is, I do not need to be filling out more forms, or especially worrying that I filled them out incorrectly and will still be uninsured.

Anyway, let's discuss this. Things have been great in the other thread (which still needs a new title, btw), let's keep that spirit going here.

No attacks, just discussion. If I'm blatenly wrong on something, point it out for me, point me in the right direction as far as facts go (and a source, I like reading, but I might need to find a free minute to do so), and we'll move on.

Thank you.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

As far as letting loose the companies to do what they will...the idea is that with people getting a free choice, the only thing determining that choice is the quality of the service that you provide. So. If you don't provide quality service, nobody picks you, and you lose business. In my opinion.

I like the idea of leaving the power in the people's hands, and not the companies' hands.

[Kralik]

- The plan's basis is a $5000 tax credit with which to purchase healthcare. ($5k for families, $2500 for individuals) (quote from McCain's site: "While still having the option of employer-based coverage, every family will receive a direct refundable tax credit - effectively cash - of $2,500 for individuals and $5,000 for families to offset the cost of insurance. Families will be able to choose the insurance provider that suits them best and the money would be sent directly to the insurance provider.")

I hadn't heard this -- could you clarify if the plan was a one-time tax credit or a revolving yearly credit? And if the latter, who would be paying for it?

[HawkeyeSPF]

It would have to be a revolving yearly credit. As for who would be paying for it, that's a good question. Ultimately, I suppose that taxpayers to pay for it in the end, whether they receive the benefit or not - which is a really good point. If you still do end up with employer based coverage, why should ANY of your tax dollars go towards paying for this?

I don't know, the money does have to come from somewhere though, and unless they start selling naming rights to DC buildings, I imagine the money would come from taxes as everything else does. ::Shudder:: Oh God, I can just see the Capital One Capitol Building...or the White House Presented by AT&T (reach out and touch someone, lol).

[Kralik]

I don't know, the money does have to come from somewhere though, and unless they start selling naming rights to DC buildings, I imagine the money would come from taxes as everything else does. ::Shudder:: Oh God, I can just see the Capital One Capitol Building...or the White House Presented by AT&T (reach out and touch someone, lol).

Yikes! That reminds me of a book I heard of (name escapes me now) where the world was so inundated by advertising that companies bought the naming rights to years. So instead of of 2013, it was "Year of the Depends Adult Undergarment" and 2014 = "Year of Caffeine-Free Diet Cherry Vanilla Dr. Pepper," etc.

So if someone decided that they didn't want health care, would that mean that they automatically get $5,000 more per year? Besides the obvious question of where the money comes from (as if our country wasn't in enough debt already), how would it be directed towards its intended purpose? Or would it be controlled at all?

[HawkeyeSPF]

I'm really having trouble seeing what the exact process he's proposing would be. It looks like it's actually outlining two entirely different ways of doing it, but calling it one and the same:

1 - Each year, if you show proof of health insurance, you will recieve a $5000 tax credit.
2 - Each year, if you show proof of health insurance, we will send the money directly to your insurance provider, with any surplus going into a Health Savings Account for you (whatever that is, I don't have time to do the research right now).

With #1, the major problems I see are that a) it's just one more thing for a famliy to take care of and keep track of and pay for each month, b) the lag time between when the family pays for their insurance and when the tax credit comes their way, and c) families tend to spend any tax refund they receive on things like vacations or other luxery items. Sure, that is a lot of money being injected into the economy, but in essence, each of those families now makes $5000 less than they did before, because that money was supposed to pay for their health insurance, but instead, it paid for a (very nice) vacation. Meanwhile, these same families are still racking up credit card debt and trying to pay off a mortgage they can't afford (especially now that they're making $5000 less).

With #2, it just seems like insurance providers would want to raise their rates to the point where they have very basic coverage (just enough to cover federal requirements as far as tax credits go) for families start about $4500 or something, since they know all that money would be covered by the government, and if you want better coverage, you'll actually have to start spending money out of your own pocket.

Either way, this plan does nothing - that I can see - to encourage the medical industry to provide better care or develop new and better technologies for treating illness and injury. This plan does nothing to ensure that all Americans have basic coverage without some hassel - who wants to fill out more forms and have to go through all the stress of buying their own coverage?


And for the advertising, everybody here should rent or find Idiocracy - great movie, and scary to think that it actually could happen if we're not careful.

[MR. Lurtzy]

And compared to McCain, what would Obama do?

[Kralik]

With #2, it just seems like insurance providers would want to raise their rates to the point where they have very basic coverage (just enough to cover federal requirements as far as tax credits go) for families start about $4500 or something, since they know all that money would be covered by the government, and if you want better coverage, you'll actually have to start spending money out of your own pocket.

Basic private health care for my family (spouse + children) is already well over $4500 no matter where I look. My employer pays about $850 a month. If that was shifted to me, even with an extra $5000, I'd be at a loss.