Ask the Libertarian

[sickofpalantirs]

wow gate troll your being an idiot...who knows if he hasn't sold a lot and given it away? we have a bible book of hard questions and says that it means you give freely, and your mindset shouldn't be on the poor.

I've gotta a personal question for you, whens the last time you willingly gave to the poor ( of money that WASNT your tithe money.)

again its as elf lvr said, if we were more charitable, the government wouldn't have to be. but we aren't, so the government needs to be.

let me rephrase that....do you know ANYONE who is living with the principles of what he said, FULLY drawn out...probably not. but do you know anyone who is living with those principles. I've known of some...people who gave money away and relied on god...

[Gate Troll]

wow gate troll your being an idiot...who knows if he hasn't sold a lot and given it away? we have a bible book of hard questions and says that it means you give freely, and your mindset shouldn't be on the poor.

I've gotta a personal question for you, whens the last time you willingly gave to the poor ( of money that WASNT your tithe money.)

again its as elf lvr said, if we were more charitable, the government wouldn't have to be. but we aren't, so the government needs to be.

let me rephrase that....do you know ANYONE who is living with the principles of what he said, FULLY drawn out...probably not. but do you know anyone who is living with those principles. I've known of some...people who gave money away and relied on god...

Sorry, it just seemed like a really hypocritical thing to hit me with. It basically said: "If you haven't given your money away you aren't a Christian. Secondly, as I am still in high school and the summer is over, I have no job and I am unable to give what I do not have. To your third point, it is not the government's place to support people whether they be legitimately poor, disabled, widowed, or otherwise.

[Gil-Estel]

If we, or for that matter any of us are christians, there is no need to raise our voices....
It is not to us to judge what someone should give. The bible says, if your righthand gives something, don't let your lefthand know. Each of us should share what they could. Some can give more than others. I don't think Jesus wanted us to sell everything we have and become poor people. In the chapter that he is talking to the rich young man, he saw that this young man was relying more on gold than God..even when he really wanted to live according to the bible.
Don't be eager to judge other people, lay low, take your own actions, your own words in consideration. Everyone is trusted with certain qualities, capacities, take responsibility for those, for that is what you are asked to do. And if there is something that needs to be said about another, do it mildly, for we need to construct eachother....

[MR. Lurtzy]

Actually, I agree with Gate Troll. But what my main issue is that the government is deciding how much of my money goes to other people. It really is not their place to do that kind of thig. You guys need to calm down. Seriously.

[sickofpalantirs]

Actually, I agree with Gate Troll. But what my main issue is that the government is deciding how much of my money goes to other people. It really is not their place to do that kind of thig. You guys need to calm down. Seriously.

I feel like this:    
I'm the person and I'm banging your head against the wall called 'reason'.

So why haven't you given all your money away? And your computer? You obviously don't live by what you teach if you haven't sold your computer and by the very fact you posted I know you didn't. 

and I'm the one not being calm here?

[AgentDrake]

See, SoP, whether you're right or not (and I haven't read the whole thread, so I dunno) about who needs to calm down, that little comment is entirely unnecessary. Just let it go.

Or do I need to separate you guys?

[Gate Troll]

-Comments removed-

[SomeRandomDude]

Preceding two posts were complete spam...thus, deleted.

Anyways, the points being made are very valid. Let me clarify what exactly is being debated here.

Government Should Provide Welfare:

Private organizations aren't capable of caring for everyone.

Government Shouldn't Provide Welfare:

Government oversteps its bounds by "forcing generosity" on the people.

And then a bunch of irrelevant ad hominem attacks on both sides.

So pretty much, it comes down to these fundamental disagreements.

[turin08]

Wow this really got out of hand didn't it. Debating always brings out the overly sarcastic and nasty side of me and I apologise.

[Gil-Estel]

And NB, to continue: I have an other question:

You say that government should only provide protection for their citizens. And that they should not interfere with other things.
With the current crisis, it shows that the only thing that drives people is greed. Bizar products were constructed to gain even more profit. Should there not be more involvement from the government? Because now people, who aren't even involved are victims of other peoples greed. And thus one might say that we need protection. And we might say that the liberal idea that the market will regulate it self, isn't true.......or don't you agree?

[SomeRandomDude]

And NB, to continue: I have an other question:

You say that government should only provide protection for their citizens. And that they should not interfere with other things.
With the current crisis, it shows that the only thing that drives people is greed. Bizar products were constructed to gain even more profit. Should there not be more involvement from the government?

No. Negative claim is the default, unless you can prove government should be involved, it is assumed that it shouldn't. I'll address your objection.

Because now people, who aren't even involved are victims of other peoples greed. And thus one might say that we need protection. And we might say that the liberal idea that the market will regulate it self, isn't true.......or don't you agree?

Okay. First of all, who got us into the mess? Government! A self-regulating market was going along fine, the greed was being counterbalanced and creating a stable market. Along comes government.
Government: "You must give loans to people who can't afford it."
Banks: "Uh-oh, now these people have loans they can't afford and we're stuck with crummy mortgages, let's turn it over to someone else."
Someone Else: "Well...since this did happen, we gotta turn some money on this (Greed in play here), so let's create some investments out of it, contingent upon these mortgages being paid back."
Gullible Investment People: "Let's invest in THAT!"
People Holding Mortgages: "We can't pay, that's why the government shouldn't have made you give us a loan in the first place."

End result? Well...I bet you know where that led.

So the number one problem IS government involvement. The government, trying to give everyone housing, welfare style, created the problem and crashed the economy. So, if free market practices truly WERE adhered to, none of this would have happened.