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Author Topic: Deck Challenges.  (Read 17068 times)

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August 18, 2018, 11:07:05 AM
Reply #15

Phallen Cassidy

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Re: Deck Challenges.
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2018, 11:07:05 AM »
The third tab from the top left is Game History. Maybe give it a look ;)

Perhaps a replay would be good for us (well, Dictionary) to see what you were up against and trying to do with your Shadow side. I do not play Expanded, but it looks like there's a lack of focus. What does Horribly Strong accomplish, exactly?

The goal of effective Promise Keeping decks is to max out on threats and then kill a companion in a skirmish, causing each threat wound to essentially place two tokens (because threat wounds are placed whenever a companion dies, making them skirmish wounds). They Stole It can be used with Promise Keeping to kill many companions outright if they have no wound protection, but everyone's aware of Ninja Gollum and has to have ways of dealing with it. The point of Her Ladyship is to try and neutralize whatever companion is most able to deal with wounding shenanigans. This may not always be the most capable fighter, in my opinion: winning a skirmish is only one way to create a wound. I think a lot of your buffs could be swapped for utility. Where's Deceit, for example? Fat One Wants It, if you'll be replaying Gollum? Incited + You're a Liar and a Thief (allows you to play a single copy of YaLaaT twice) can kill someone off without any notice (wound, exert, wound again) if you've got Gollum winning skirmishes.

From Deep in Shadow appears to be a card worth substituting some of your other minion-pullers for. If you're not going for burdens, Mad Thing might be weaker than Threatening Guide.

Other people will be far more helpful about this than I am, anything I know about Expanded meta (heck, Movie meta) is theoretical knowledge at best. Solo Smeagol + Ninja Gollum should be a solid deck, but a lot of Expanded seems to be rock-paper-scissors. Your Free Peoples could probably be better optimized, too. Where Shall We Go is usually worse than Don't Look at Them, for example.

August 18, 2018, 01:25:49 PM
Reply #16

menace64

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Re: Deck Challenges.
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2018, 01:25:49 PM »
Quote from: Phallen Cassidy
The third tab from the top left is Game History. Maybe give it a look ;)

F'n'a Gemp has everything!!

Quote from: Phallen Cassidy
Perhaps a replay would be good for us (well, Dictionary) to see what you were up against and trying to do with your Shadow side. I do not play Expanded, but it looks like there's a lack of focus. What does Horribly Strong accomplish, exactly?

Ahh sorry I mean Sudden Strike, not Horribly Strong. If replays are automatically generated I'll fetch one when I'm able!

Quote from: Phallen Cassidy
The goal of effective Promise Keeping decks is to max out on threats and then kill a companion in a skirmish, causing each threat wound to essentially place two tokens (because threat wounds are placed whenever a companion dies, making them skirmish wounds). They Stole It can be used with Promise Keeping to kill many companions outright if they have no wound protection, but everyone's aware of Ninja Gollum and has to have ways of dealing with it. The point of Her Ladyship is to try and neutralize whatever companion is most able to deal with wounding shenanigans. This may not always be the most capable fighter, in my opinion: winning a skirmish is only one way to create a wound. I think a lot of your buffs could be swapped for utility.

That's mostly what I remember. My impression now, though, is 1-Part "The meta is extremely unforgiving against condition-heavy decks" and 1-Part "menace64 has lost his edge."

Quote from: Phallen Cassidy
Where's Deceit, for example? Fat One Wants It, if you'll be replaying Gollum? Incited + You're a Liar and a Thief (allows you to play a single copy of YaLaaT twice) can kill someone off without any notice (wound, exert, wound again) if you've got Gollum winning skirmishes.

I think the lack of all of those cards in my build is indicitive of my problem: I'm not as fluent in card-knowledge as I would've been back in the day. Deceit outright solves my problem of getting gutted but I forgot it even existed - along with basically every other card in that sad, unjoyful set. (I still have nightmares about #18...)

Quote from: Phallen Cassidy
From Deep in Shadow appears to be a card worth substituting some of your other minion-pullers for. If you're not going for burdens, Mad Thing might be weaker than Threatening Guide.

A solid focus on threats would make Threatening Guide a much better fit; I only went with Mad Thing because I remember he was the Gollum most likely to kill me when last I played.

Quote from: Phallen Cassidy
Other people will be far more helpful about this than I am, anything I know about Expanded meta (heck, Movie meta) is theoretical knowledge at best. Solo Smeagol + Ninja Gollum should be a solid deck, but a lot of Expanded seems to be rock-paper-scissors. Your Free Peoples could probably be better optimized, too. Where Shall We Go is usually worse than Don't Look at Them, for example.

You've already been helpful! Just as simple a critique as "lacks focus: go for threats" gives me something to aim for! What do you think is the upper size limit on a deck like this?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 01:28:50 PM by menace64 »

August 18, 2018, 02:24:51 PM
Reply #17

Dictionary

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Re: Deck Challenges.
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2018, 02:24:51 PM »
a lot of Expanded seems to be rock-paper-scissors.
I've seen this description levelled at pretty much every format I've played, and many more besides. I've never seen things that way myself though.

The meta is extremely unforgiving against condition-heavy decks
This is definitely true. I think some the [Orc] culture's popularity has receded a bit over the years (Just parts of it, it's still a strong culture) because of rampant condition discard. Playing on Gemp made me give up on many conditions a long time ago. Gollum does have Deceit though (As Phallen mentioned) and while it does not make you invulnerable (Despite what many will tell you) it is a big help for Gollum.

Possessions are a bit safer. Larder is good for Shelob buffs if you want them, and if you stick with Enduring Shelobs you can use Gothmog, Morgul Leader and then Larder him if they don't make twilight.

Just speaking for myself, I like building 80 card decks and then working my way down, as I find losing due to lack of minions extremely painful. Bigger decks are, of course, doable, but they require a lot of work to get right.
Visit LOTR TCG wiki for strategy articles and extra card details, contributed by various community members. All set 1 cards finished.

August 18, 2018, 02:38:34 PM
Reply #18

menace64

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Re: Deck Challenges.
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2018, 02:38:34 PM »
Quote from: Dictionary
This is definitely true. I think some the [Orc] culture's popularity has receded a bit over the years (Just parts of it, it's still a strong culture) because of rampant condition discard.

I'll accept any meta-level setbacks if doing so keeps [Orc] dead forever.

Quote from: Dictionary
Possessions are a bit safer.

Why do you think I still like Troll of Cirith Gorgor so much?  :twisted:

August 23, 2018, 07:02:05 AM
Reply #19

Phallen Cassidy

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Re: Deck Challenges.
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2018, 07:02:05 AM »
This is one of the more gimmicky decks I've built, but I didn't know what else to do.

The Secret Smeagol Slide

Ring-bearer: Smeagol, Bearer of Great Secrets
Ring: The One Ring, Such a Weight to Carry

Adventure deck:
Ettenmoors
Morannon Plains
Neekerbreekers' Bog
Fords of Isen
Mere of Dead Faces
Window on the West
Dammed Gate-stream
Green Dragon Inn
The Prancing Pony

Free Peoples Draw Deck (36 cards):
1x Frodo, Frenzied Fighter (Starting)
1x Sam, Resolute Halfling (Starting)
1x Anborn, Skilled Huntsman
1x Boromir, Steward's Heir
1x Faramir, Son of Denethor
4x Ranger of Ithilien
1x Bilbo, Aged Ring-bearer
4x Release Them
4x Something Slimy
1x Follow Smeagol
1x Gladden Homestead
4x Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
4x Poor Wretch
4x Secret Paths
4x There's Another Way

Shadow Draw Deck (36 cards):
3x Gollum, Old Villain
2x Shelob, Eater of Light
1x Shelob, Her Ladyship
3x Web
4x Captured by the Ring
4x Horribly Strong
4x Led Astray
3x So Polite
3x Deceit
2x Evil-smelling Fens
1x Fat One Wants It
1x Final Strike
1x Incited
4x It's Mine

You'd probably do well to cut the deck down to 30/30: I'd recommend -4x Release Them, -1x Gladden Homestead, and -1x Poor Wretch for the Free Peoples and -2x Evil-smelling Fens, -1x Fat One Wants It, and -3x Led Astray for the Shadow. There's probably a lot of missed opportunity for site optimization and manipulation here, and some tweaking could be done to the quantities. I made a few edits after the maiden voyage, but nothing major.

With 4x Secret Paths, you can probably guess the goal: use Smeagol's regroup ability to coast to site 9. Ring-bound Rangers are there to up the threat limit and provide cushion for the first few moves; with 8 companions (and no threats) you can play all of your Secret Paths and move from 3 to 9, though in the handful of games I played I could only move from 3 to 8. If your opponent's shadow side has cycling you're pretty much screwed.

I've bid 0 and started Green Dragon Inn when able, otherwise hopefully as the 2nd site with Prancing Pony or Dammed Gate-stream (depending on which I need) for site 3. The sites are basically all situational, I'd try to reserve Smeagol's vitality for using Follow Smeagol if you pulled/drew it early or Mere of Dead Faces with There's Another Way to ensure a crucial favorable site. Still, I haven't needed to depend on them one way or another. Neekerbreeker's Bog and Morannon Plains are theoretically cool, but there's probably something better that could go here. I didn't have a chance to try Window on the West or Fords of Isen but I have high hopes for them.

Having a Ranger in your opening hand is crucial (maybe I should start Prancing Pony instead?) because of how low the strength of the starting fellowship. Between Herbs and Stewed Rabbit, Poor Wretch, and There's Another Way Smeagol is usually plenty stacked by site 3 (Strength ranging from 11-15). Sam should be used to discard any Shadow cards you've got because there's a lot of digging you need to do. I use Something Slimy as a placeholder for Secret Paths and only use it to pull something else if I can get my max copies out (hopefully 4, but at least 3). Gladden Homestead is a fine way to clog the opponent's hand, but I'd spread the uses out rather than push all the conditions back at once.

The Shadow side is only here to help your Free Peoples, but so far it looks scary enough to keep your opponent from moving too fast (Ninja Gollum and what all). Play Gollum and exert him three times with It's Mine to get what you need. Horribly Strong is a great bonus because it lets you do this again. There are 11 distinct companions total in the deck, so don't worry if you discard Rangers. Incited only has one copy, but should probably move up to 3. Gollum will only be skirmishing for the first 3-4 sites if all goes well, which means he'll be much stronger than companions and can win skirmishes just by discarding your extra Shadow cards. If you can use Incited, I wouldn't use it to grab anything but a lost Free Peoples condition or a used Something Slimy. Playing Shelob at all is a secondary goal. Eater of Light pulls Web and thus bumps your shot at drawing your Free Peoples cards, but Her Ladyship stops moves better and if your opponent figures out that your Shadow side is toothless soon enough, there's a chance you could be out-raced by an opponent with an increased move limit (Radagast, mostly). I'm not sold on either one. Just remember that the focus here is to help your Free Peoples get set up.

August 23, 2018, 10:32:11 AM
Reply #20

menace64

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Re: Deck Challenges.
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2018, 10:32:11 AM »
The challenge has been issued to build a deck incorporating Uruk Spy. It hasn't been stipulated to what format this deck should reside, so I say Towers Standard until otherwise corrected.

August 23, 2018, 11:49:50 PM
Reply #21

Pepi

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Re: Deck Challenges.
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2018, 11:49:50 PM »
Really glad you brought Uruk Spy up! I've been thinking about an Uruk archery deck that utilizes these guys and Saruman's Reach to either add burdens (which can be at the very least -- traded off for extra minions at Palantir Chamber), or some extra exerts. I think Evil Afoot would help in a deck like this aswell. Not sure about fellowship, though. Some filtering would be great, so I'd likely go for Rohan, because Symbelmyne.

So that's my five cents. :)

August 24, 2018, 07:49:20 AM
Reply #22

menace64

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Re: Deck Challenges.
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2018, 07:49:20 AM »
1x Boromir, Steward's Heir

I want to see this deck in action, and until three seconds ago I had NO idea there was a Ring-bound Boromir. Holy crap! Are there other juicy-keyword online-only companions out there?!

---------

Uruk Spy isn't working [yet]. It feels like I'm missing some crucial component. The Nazgul side of the deck is working well enough - I think swapping out my generic Uruk cheapies with archers might be what I need here.

Not sure about fellowship, though. Some filtering would be great, so I'd likely go for Rohan, because Symbelmyne.

So far I'm using Ring-bound rangers with Shards of Narsil for cycling. I did learn this morning that stacking a Shard on a Shard and then shift+clicking a card stacked on Shards crashes gemp produces a slightly scary red error message prompting me to refresh. Or something else wonky is going on. (http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=menace64$ind1lh36vodks9b0 for the replay although the scary-red-text doesn't show up here.)
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 08:06:22 AM by menace64 »

August 24, 2018, 01:55:09 PM
Reply #23

Shelobplayer

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Re: Deck Challenges.
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2018, 01:55:09 PM »
I want to see this deck in action, and until three seconds ago I had NO idea there was a Ring-bound Boromir. Holy crap! Are there other juicy-keyword online-only companions out there?!

It's not online-only, just a very rare promo.

August 24, 2018, 01:56:53 PM
Reply #24

menace64

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Re: Deck Challenges.
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2018, 01:56:53 PM »
I want to see this deck in action, and until three seconds ago I had NO idea there was a Ring-bound Boromir. Holy crap! Are there other juicy-keyword online-only companions out there?!

It's not online-only, just a very rare promo.

 :o :o :o :o

September 02, 2018, 11:56:40 PM
Reply #25

menace64

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Re: Deck Challenges.
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2018, 11:56:40 PM »
I am issuing a DECK CHALLENGE to all of you.

I want you to build a custom Starter Deck, with the intent of it being simultaneously Approachable, and Enjoyable, something you could sit down and teach with.

Each side of your Starter Deck must revolve around a simple focus, whether that be a specific character, or mechanic.

The format can be whatever makes you happiest, even Open! (I plan on trying Open first.)

I won't disallow Rares or Rare+s but these should be included at the barest of minimums.

Alternate Ring-bearers are fine - even encouraged - just be careful to keep things simple if you choose to go this route.

Feel free to use pre-existing Starter Decks as templates in your construction, but no copy and pasting! Try to innovate within these constraints.

September 03, 2018, 06:53:41 AM
Reply #26

Wyrden333

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Re: Deck Challenges.
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2018, 06:53:41 AM »
I guess the challange is for a 60-Card deck (or more).

Just asking sice the Decipher Decks always had like 50 cards or so...
Go King Standard!