Been busy, dizzy and a bit too tired, but I'm back again. This new thread looks great, good job Dictionary!
Huorn should be in the "Anti-Thematic cards" list. And
Aiglos might be moved to the "Overpowered" list, since it's broken pieces were probably present in Rivendell during Frodo's journey, but is excluded due to
Greenleaf. I'd also specify "Irrelevant cards
(not excluded)".
Stand Against Darkness should go to the X-list, if we want to see the big
![[Sauron]](https://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/Smileys/classic/sauron.png "Sauron")
minions in action.
We might even add another list, for lore's sake: "
Mutually excluding list" for things that shouldn't be together. That means, "Andúril FOTR +
Narsil BotF /
The Shards of Narsil." In a logical world, the superb sword is either broken or remade, but not both. So either Boromir carries the hilt to enhance his Hobbit pumping / ally summoning, or Aragorn fences the
Flame of the West against the enemies of... the West.
...
![[Shire]](https://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/Smileys/classic/shire.png "Shire")
-
Fredegar Bolger: We're forgetting about good old
Fatty! He'd be weaker than Pippin as cannon fodder, but in a dedicated
deck he'd be strong in region 1, weak-but-slippery in region 2 (stealths, Bombadil), and somewhat reliable in region 3 (
Goldberry,
TABA,
Bounder /
Everyone Knows,
Nice Imitation /
Seek and Hide). Without a Farmer Maggot of his own and only 3 vitality, he'll need
Stout and Sturdy /
Hobbit Appetite to survive in the long run. But can keep the Hobbit count high, and that's important.
-
Warmed Up A Bit: It's a shame Bolger doesn't have a self-discard skill to stay in the Shire. What about adding that event too? It'd make Hobbits harder to kill (and would still work when the main stealths stop cancelling skirmishes), but would also be counterproducive with double moves (and
Narrow Escape). It'd be mostly for Pippin and
Fatty, since Merry won't want to lose his
Hobbit Sword.
Dear Friends / Bilbo RA would bring them back to play (or another copy). Or
Knocked on the Head if we're willing to add one more, which is fine to me.
-
Tom Bombadil's Hat: Agree with Phallen,
Sam SoH is enough a nightmare to also have this cutting burdens by half.
![[Gandalf]](https://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/Smileys/classic/gandalf.png "Gandalf")
Wizards-
The Art of Gandalf & Have Patience: I disagree with Phallen: while is true that Gandalf is strong in Rainbow fellowships, he's actually weak in mainly
decks. Has many mighty tricks but depends too much on hand, and even worse, exerts too much without any healing but sanctuaries and extra copies (so often is forced to add
Aragorn KiE,
Frodo's Pipe or
Elrond HtGG and change the deck a lot). He cannot choke or double move well.
The Art of Gandalf will help dense
decks with hand dependance, but will provide little to no utility for Rainbow ones. And to correct the lack of healing
we can add Have Patience, which is strong but very costly (in a format that tends to punish extra twilight). It's actually much weaker than pipes.
-
Sent Back will make those Gandalf-centered decks lose the frailness of depending on one companion, so they can compete in better terms with Rangers and Archery. In regards of
Radagast, killing and replaying him for a leap in the sitepath shouldn't mean much with all the stopping power of the format (with no
OOTHA or Gil-Galad to clear the board);
Shores of Nen Hithoel doesn't care about move limits anyway. It'd be useful vs Grind and Archery, taking 4 wounds to then reappear, but those will get huge reinforcements anyway (big trackers,
Gollum DaD,
Ithil Stone). Or with
Far-Seeing Eyes discard, but they already work well with
Gift of Boats (and 40/40+ decks or
Old Noakes tend to defeat them with ease).
Sent Back is actually thematic. After returning from death, Gandalf played an important-though-not-explicit part in the book: when the Eye catches Frodo at Amon Hen, Gandalf confronts Sauron's will inside Frodo's mind, giving him a chance to take off the Ring (
"The two powers strove in him. For a moment, perfectly balanced between their piercing points, he writhed, tormented. Suddenly he was aware of himself again. Frodo, neither the Voice nor the Eye: free to choose...").
-
Radagast's Staff is nothing to fear, only provides nice stats. I'd rather have him wield a
Wizard Staff, its skill is much better than the vitality.
Men-
The Flame of Anor: Men will need a pump that works for themselves and by themselves. We already discarded
Last Stand (tokens and frailness); and
TToHC,
FaWLD and
TSiiTB (too weak). That leaves only
GotI,
tFoA, and
Be Gone. But
Be Gone is too much as lasts until regroup (can exhaust Gandy or
Radagast to reduce the Witch King to str 8).
GotI rises those weak Men to awesome strengths, that's fine, but doesn't force you to use
Man companions to pump Gandalf, while
The Flame of Anor requires you to have at least 1
Man companion along with Gandalf +
Radagast.
If beefing up Wizard decks is a problem, I'd prefer The Flame of Anor. Only in that case, which might prove wrong with the rise of
Dark Fire,
No Ordinary Storm (with
AFVotA +
Urgency) and the new Balrogs wearing Gandalf down.
-
Ghan-buri-Ghan: Ket and Phallen are right, he's anti-thematic, but is the only skillful survivor they have. That's only because of his gametext, while
Brand has a mild dispersed effect and Barliman
RFL's is too random to be good. Even with a pump they'll mostly stand still to get the punches of Uruks/Nazgul that'd be otherwise hitting Frodo. The problem is that they're just stiff stats like Ents,
without any built-in or external skill to draw on (they have
Great Shield +
Armor /
Coat of Mail, but that's all). So we must change that before removing Ghan.
I think the following cards will help them:
On Your Doorstep, Dasron & Erland DC. -
On Your Doorstep can remove the randomness from
Barliman Butterbur RFL's skill, making it useful to recover post-fellowship
events immediately (which is closer to the ally version, but still weaker), or any
card for the next turn (a discared
Glamdring, or
Sleep Caradhras).
-
Dasron's stats are decent, and his skill will hardly work in this format (only
Strands of Elven Hair + a Dwarf, for a single use each copy).
-
Erland DC seems OP at first, but this is the FOTR card pool and not Expanded: without that format's shenanigans (
Grimbeorn,
Mithlond site manipulation, initiative abuse,
Powerful Guide /
Radagast's Herb Bag,
Prolonged Struggle) he'll wear down soon to support str 4 to 9 guys (that is, from barehanded Barliman to
Brand with Axe +
Flaming Brand) vs the old and new Big Monsters of the format. The only events he'll be getting back are
Mysterious Wizard,
SotSF,
Staff Asunder and the new
pump. And is vulnerable to
Saruman SotE,
Saruman's Snows,
No Ordinary Storm,
You Bring Great Evil,
Black Breath and
Hate.
After adding those, I'm totally OK with removing Ghan. They'd have a lot of footwork to face perils, though still less than
Greenleaf,
Horn of Boromir,
Aragorn RotN, his bow,
Gandalf's Staff,
Filibert Bolger... should be fine.
![[Dwarven]](https://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/Smileys/classic/dwarven.png "Dwarven")
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Dwarven Rings: It's true that all were lost at the time of the Council. But Dwarves need some
permanent support to be competitive, and there's nothing I know to replace them in equal quality... so they'll lose the damage and strength bonuses; and the healing of
Ring of Fury, and the ace-up-the-sleeve of
Ring of Guile.
Brand can help, but gives them str+1 at the expense of a companion slot, in the realm of
Shotgun Enquea and
Savagery to Match Their Numbers (no
Slaked Thirsts or
Great Day, Great Hour), so it's not a great trade in my opinion.
Belt of Erebor, the only interesting (generic) possession past FOTR block, is already added.
Lord of Moria provides damage, and perhaps
Whatever End can help with strength when needed (as a
Saruman's Ambition), but that's all I see. And both are conditions in the neighborhood of
Saruman's Power, so the vulnerability is a big problem.
Unless we add Feared Axeman to protect them. That'd also make Gloin FoT and
Endurance of Dwarves reliable, which are great boosts to the culture when not blown away by an angry Wizard. I can see Gloin fully-geared + 4
Stairs of Khazad-dum (str 13, or 17 vs
![[Moria]](https://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/Smileys/classic/moria.png "Moria")
) as a natural balance vs Lurtz, the Witch King +
Fell Beast and the new Balrogs.
Gimli FA is a gamechanger for
decks, while Rainbow ones will still prefer
Son of Gloin or
DotMR.
-
Counts But One: What about this one?
Sword of Boromir will make him jump from one skirmish to the next, so perhaps Gimli might have this to do the same.
![[Elven]](https://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/Smileys/classic/elven.png "Elven")
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Naith Longbow: It's mainly to disuade from using
Elven Bow. +1 str makes Glorfindel powerful, but +1 archery is even worse for the Shadow player. Like
Keeper of Isengard with Uruks, we're trying to change the meta from those boring top tier decks, but without X-listing anything from them.
-
Elrond: Witness to History will be too powerful recycling
Secret Sentinels; just like
Hadafang, the easy condition discarding poisons any potential benefit. While it's true that the ally versions are better than
Elven Lord in many cases, with the Shadow power creep an
skirmisher as strong as him shouldn't be underestimated; he'd be the only Elf able to survive a loss to
the Balrog ToFaS or Saruman + Throne without any help. Also, his healing skill can keep Gandalf/Aragorn healthy
while reducing the skirmish burden from their shoulders. In lieu of
HtGG's skill he can also use
Master of Healing (without being vulnerable to
TPIIT,
Fear,
MoMT or
Anduin Confluence).
-
Elven Sword: Having a generic hand weapon would make Elrond and other
skirmishers more viable versus the huge Shadow power rise.
Gwemegil already cycles that much, so it wouldn't add anything new after all. We might even add AND R-list
Elven Armaments, it'd make a single fighter much tougher
while shutting down for good the use of
Greenleaf / White Arrows /
TSotB. Due to that, adding it to a deck would promote the dropping of those archery tricks in favor of pumps, Longbows and Swords. Would need to be R-listed due to
and
Grind, who have no way of getting rid of it.
-
Lembas: Elladan,
Elrohir and the Swords will need a good drawing tool to reload hand resources, moreover if they want to double move often.
![[Wraith]](https://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/Smileys/classic/wraith.png "Wraith")
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Riders in Black: 'Twas meant for Set 16 Wraiths, not for Nazgul (or Ferny). While those may be interesting with
Gates of the Dead City,
Otsea LoM, Ferny and
Morgul Skulker helping them the best they can, they'll still need something else to be competitive. The lack an event pump makes them too predictable.
Dark Swooping Shadows and
Between Nazgul and Prey can be added for them, they'd only work for them anyway (no Enduring Nazguls).
BNAP would be nice with the 3 Barrow Wights, since would show them well as the ambushers they were (and only they have 3+ vit to play it). Those events would make
Riders in Black unnecessary.
-
Sense of Obligation: Besides those 2 events,
Sense of Obligation can help the corruption power of Barrow Wights (moreover with
BNAP). But maybe it's too much for Nazguls, with all the other resources already available for them.
![[Isengard]](https://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/Smileys/classic/isengard.png "Isengard")
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Isen Orcs: Yeah, Phallen is right, those guys were left outside all our plans!
Library of Orthanc can help them, but that's it. I'd add 2 regroup discard Orcs (
Isengard Artisan &
Isengard Plodder, as their cost and surviving skills are balanced) and add
Gnawing, Biting, Hacking, Burning and maybe
Iron Fist of the Orc.
Tentacles will also form great corruption decks with
Gollum DaD and
LttG (since 1
Foul Tentacle can pull up to 4 other tentacles).
Forces of Mordor is positively not R-listed.
Sauron tLotR won't be easy to play, but Corruption decks will do it a bit easier. With X burdens +
The Ring Draws Them +
Ithil Stone, he'll need only (15 - 2X) twilight to be played; that's
![[7]](https://lotrtcgdb.com/forums/Smileys/classic/7.png "7")
with only 4 burdens.
has
Troubled Mountains and
Goblin Armory in lieu of
TRDT.
Worry +
Tower of Orthanc might do it for
, while
can abuse
DDotR (Ferny, the Mouth of Sauron) with
OLOAGT supplementing the pool.
-------------
Summary of Proposals:
-
Huorn is "Anti-thematic",
Aiglos is "Overpowered";
Anduril FotW might be "Mutually excluding" with both
Narsil BotF and
the Shards of Narsil.
-
Remove
Tom Bombadil's Hat; add
Fredegar Bolger,
Warmed Up A Bit &
Knocked On the Head.
-
Add
Have Patience. Remove
Ghan-buri-Ghan, replace with
Erland DC,
Dasron and
On Your Doorstep. Replace
GotI with
tFoA only if makes Gandalf too powerful.
-
Add
Feared Axeman. If the Rings are X-listed, replace with
Whatever End. Perhaps add
Counts But One.
-
X-list
Stand Against Darkness; add
Elven Sword,
Elven Armaments &
Lembas. R-list the Armaments. Keep
Elven Lord over
Witness to History.
-
Remove
Riders in Black. Add
Between Nazgul and Prey &
Dark Swooping Shadows. Perhaps add
Sense of Obligation.
-
Add
Isengard Artisan,
Isengard Plodder;
Gnawing, Biting, Hacking, Burning and perhaps
Iron Fist of the Orc.
After all that, the only remaining WETA promo would be
Radagast's Staff.
Thoughts?
Topic: Enhanced Fellowship Block (Read 11081 times)