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Author Topic: Elf/Dwarf with Sauron Mill  (Read 4179 times)

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September 29, 2020, 01:01:06 PM
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JamesCB

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Elf/Dwarf with Sauron Mill
« on: September 29, 2020, 01:01:06 PM »
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 06:40:57 AM by JamesCB »

October 01, 2020, 05:58:08 AM
Reply #1

TelTura

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Re: Elf/Dwarf with Sauron Mill
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2020, 05:58:08 AM »
The free peoples side of this deck needs to do two things: survive, and maximize White Arrows exertions each turn.  So first off, ditch all the generic dwarves and elves.  Particularly the lorien elves; they have a single vitality and you need exertions from White Arrows that they can't do more than once.  Put in Arwen, Daughter of Elrond and Haldir, Elf of the Golden Wood.   You need Elven Bow to even be able to use White Arrows of Lorien on anyone but Legolas, so throw in four copies of that. The Tale of Gil-galad should also be in there to pump up your most consistent White Arrows holder.   

For healing, use Elrond, Herald to Gil-galad; Shoulder to Shoulder; and Hosts of the Last Alliance to protect your perpetually-exhausted White Arrows holders.  Galadriel, Lady of the Golden Wood can also work, but see the next line.

Far-seeing Eyes, even nerfed, is still great for this strat.  Pack your deck full of elven allies and abuse Galadriel, Lady of Light.  Boom, one card out per elf you lay down, and many of the site 6 elves have useful skirmish abilities.  If you go this route, you of course don't want Anduin Confluence at any cost.

Add Farin, Dwarven Emissary and Fror, Gimli's Kinsman at the very least for the Dwarven side of things.

Swap out Hobbit Sword for Sting; you're only running Frodo so give him his sword, and also consider Mithril Coat and Hobbit Stealth just to keep him alive.  Ditch long-knives and Bow of the Galadhrim; you've got enough trouble just getting Elven Bow and White Arrows on everyone. 

Throw in a Gwemegil just because it's an excellent cycle item and you're likely going to rely on Arwen anyway. 





In my experience, the Sauron side of this should not hope to actually pull off a win with The Irresistible Shadow (tho include a copy just in case).  I've gotten to within a hair's breadth of it, but it just requires you to hold onto too many cards when you need to be playing card like mad.

Add 2-3x His Cruelty and Malice, and instead of relying on minions that all have game text based around milling, rely on this, Desperate Defense of the Ring, Desperate Measures, and Tower of Barad-dur to generate the card discard.  Now you just need a ton of Mordorcs with vitality, so ditch the Rager, Enheartened Foe, Southern Spies, and The Dark Lord Advances.  Keep all the mordorcs you've already included, but then focus on including high-vitality orcs where you can and Orc Ambusher and Orc Scout where you can't (naturally, you should throw in Tol Brandir as well).  Reduce Tower Lieutenant to 2x; him being unique makes it easy for him to clog when you can least afford it.

Also where's Durin's Bane?  There's no reason not to splash a single copy in the event of a dead draw on site 5. 

Hope this helps.


« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 06:00:33 AM by TelTura »
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October 01, 2020, 06:35:39 AM
Reply #2

JamesCB

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Re: Elf/Dwarf with Sauron Mill
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2020, 06:35:39 AM »
Thank you so much for the freep advice (I honestly think that this deck had the worst FP I've ever made).
Quote
Also where's Durin's Bane?  There's no reason not to splash a single copy in the event of a dead draw on site 5.
#-o Every time I make a deck that isn't Moria, I forget about him.

I'm too lazy to put all the thoughts I had, so just know I'll follow your advice, and am very grateful.


October 24, 2020, 06:56:54 PM
Reply #4

5tein

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Re: Elf/Dwarf with Sauron Mill
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2020, 06:56:54 PM »
This is my jam! I've played this theme so many times back in the day and have made some discoveries that may tip the scales for you:

First is to understand the win conditions for this deck. There are two:
1. Shadow: You add enough burdens and discard enough cards to win by Irresistible Shadow.
2. Fellowship: You discard enough cards to move to 9 with no resistance.

1 is very difficult but not impossible.
2 is actually much more feasible; even if your opponent is at 8 and you are at 6 a triple move may be possible if they have few or no cards to play.

So you need to discard their deck asap, hard and fast, with as little setup as possible. The most efficient Freeps cards for this are The White Arrows of Lorien and Nobody Tosses a Dwarf. Note, however, that White Arrows has two weaknesses : It depends on your opponent playing minions and on having cards in hand to discard. If I were playing against this deck I would deny you minions except on a second move. 

So Personally I focus on NTAD instead — especially because multiple copies can be played off a single win trigger.

Here's my NTAD formula:
1x Gimli Son of Gloin
2x Dwarven Axe
1x Dwarven Bracers
1x Hand Axe
1x Endurance of Dwarves
4x Nobody Tosses a Dwarf
1x Axe Strike
1x Greatest Kingdom of my People — Moria is perhaps the hardest Shadow to outrun, and this helps.
1x Thrarin, Dwarven Smith — (can catch an extra axe, but is more important than that for a reason I'll come back to)
1x Merry, Friend to Sam — Get him with Farmer Maggot's Fields if you go first.

The idea is to beef up Gimli so he can win skirmishes and play NTAD. No other dwarves are necessary. Gimli only has to survive to site 6, but you must have NTAD when you need them, so keeping your deck slim (60-64) is very helpful.

You could also run Gimli's Helm, another Dwarven or Hand Axe, or another Axe Strike depending on your preference.

Even if you manage to play all NTADs on 4 different skirmishes that's only 16 cards discarded. So you do need elves, too.

But similar to Gimli, the idea should be all-in on one elf companion: Legolas. Which Legolas you choose honestly doesn't matter too much. Greenleaf may seem like a bad choice at first glance but I've found that he provides flexibility in a pinch. Like you, Son of Thranduil is my go-to for the extra archery at Rivers and Forests, but I do also like Prince of Mirkwood because he can help you survive vs Nazgul when Gimli is exhausted and can't win on a Fierce.

This assumes you're going balls to the wall White Arrows. I do like the idea of Ancient Enmity but in practice it is hard to pull off, and even if you hit it 4x it's only 8 cards. White Arrows, on one elf can reasonably discard 12 or more cards in a game before you move from site 6 (4 before/at 3, 4 after 3, >2 via Elrond, 1-2 via Tale, 2-4 at site 6).

No other Elf companions are needed, IMO, but you are right to take advantage of Allies. Here's my own White Arrows formula:
1x Legolas, Son of Thranduil
3x White Arrows of Lorien
1x Tale of Gil-Galad
1x Orophin, Lorien Bowman
1x Rumiel, Elven Protector
1x Curse Their Foul Feet
1x Foul Creation — In a tournament setting I definitely will play 2x
2x Elrond, Herald to Gil-Galad
1x Vilya — important to increase healing on Legolas or Gimli, and not a bad substitute for 1x Secret Sentinels when paired with White Arrows.

The extra White Arrows go on Rumiel and Orophin for site 6, of course. If you do play Galadriel, I like Lady of Golden Light better for the healing.

With this setup (and decent luck) your Fship can reliably discard nearly half the average deck by site 6.

The remaining Freeps card slots can go several ways. Assuming your plan is to go for a triple move to 9:

1. Gift of Boats: Easy to set up (requires Valley of the Silverlode at 6) but is subject to discarding if played too early.

2. Durin's Secret. It does require Gandalf (FotSF or Grey Pilgrim are both great choices in this deck), but otherwise it's a bit more flexible because not only can it sit in the discard pile until you need to get it with Barliman, you can play it twice with Barliman if moving from 5. Yes, I have quadruple-moved in a tournament from 5 to 9 against an empty deck, but just once :) Oh, and it works with Thrarin and your elven allies after Gimli and Legolas die (they will).

No matter what, you'll want to finish the Free Peoples side by setting the late game odds in your favor with some splashes: Aragorn, Ranger of the North, Sam, Proper Poet, Boromir, Son of Denethor, There and Back Again, O Elbereth! — these are all great choices to help you get you from 6 to 9.

Last point on the Free People's side: You do want to go first, imo. Farmer Maggot's Field should let you bid at least 2, since you can get Pippin, Hobbit of Some Intelligence. Realistically, you can bid 3 — if the discard strategy works, any burdening deck will struggle to set up and execute.

I'm going to pause here and come back to the Shadow side in a separate reply, which I also have strong opinions about :)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 08:13:48 PM by Steino »

October 24, 2020, 08:03:34 PM
Reply #5

5tein

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Re: Elf/Dwarf with Sauron Mill
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2020, 08:03:34 PM »
The biggest problem I've had with Shadow discard is Free Peoples choke. Good thing nobody plays choke in Fellowship block ;)

The second biggest problem I've had has simply been vs a strong, fast-moving opponent. So, to some extent, going first helps you, because your Fellowship will probably /not/ be double moving much.

So with a win objective of triggering The Irresistible Shadow (or supporting your own triple move to 9), my opinion is that your Shadow side must be inexpensive and efficient at discarding and burdening.

There are really just 5 cards that accomplish this, imo:
4x Orc Inquisitor
4x Desperate Defense of the Ring
4x His Cruelty and Malice
4x Orc Warrior
2x Thin and Stretched

Orc Inquisitor only discards 4 cards but it does support DDotR. DDotR and TaS can be played on Frodo so he's damned if he does or doesn't skirmish.

Orc Warrior is where the magic happens. No matter what, he needs to discard 2x conditions every time he is played to discard a total of 16 cards in a game. Of course, you'll need 8 conditions that are cheap and expendable.

This is why 4x His Cruelty and Malice are key. HCaM is one of the very few Sauron conditions that does not require an exertion to play. It doesn't even require you to spot a minion. And it's actually relevant, too. This makes it an ideal card to pair with Orc Warrior.

Having 2x TaS and 2x Irresistible Shadow is a good idea, therefore, since not only will you have a backup, greater odds of drawing them when needed, you can discard one.

I get Tower of Barad Dur, but I've personally struggled to both play it and keep it in play at a scale that will actually hurt the opponent. And you definitely don't want to discard it with Orc Warrior. So for me the jury is still out.

Strength Born of Fear is another interesting option for Orc Warrior since it doesn't require an exertion. There are just a few others that are similar, but none are better than HCaM, imo.

I do like Desperate Measures — it's just so wicked when it works — but I think my last build swapped it out for Get off the Road, since I play Nertea, Enquea, and a Morgul Skulker.

For the other minions, I like 2x Tower Lieutenant and 2x Band of the Eye, but dang, it's hard to get them into play vs choke, let alone keep them around to win. Morgul Hunter is just too expensive to have more than 1-2. Rather than Scouts, Orc Assassins provide a chance to kill Sam. They also work nicely with DDotR on a Frodo.

All in all, you're looking at confidently discarding 20 cards, going easily up to 30 with Tower Lieutenant, DDotR and HCaM if you have decent luck. You can help your luck somewhat with cards like Our List of Allies Grows Thin or Orc Taskmaster (adds a little versatility).
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 10:04:30 PM by Steino »