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Author Topic: The Way Into Mordor - Elves (1/16: "Fæste, stille nú." / "A red sun rises....")  (Read 88216 times)

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December 10, 2008, 03:14:07 PM
Reply #45

Elf_Lvr

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Re: The Way Into Mordor - Elves (12/10: They may have Elven Armaments, but....)
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2008, 03:14:07 PM »
I thought about making Knife-work +2/+4, but then it seemed very weak compared to other [Elven] events like Point Blank Range and the bevy of events that boost by +2 initially since all THOSE events don't require any kind of condition to be met for the initial +2. In this case, of course, there IS a condition that has to be met for even that initial bonus: a hand weapon. I figured that at least merited a +3, and then there didn't seem to be much incentive for the additional weapon if only another +1 was provided as a step up, so I tossed out +3/+4 as well and settled for +3/+5. I comforted myself in the knowledge that Final Shot is able to get away with this without too much trouble or controvery. Yes, I realize they're quite different, but still.

So, I'd rather leave it at +3/+5, personally. It really requires some work to get there since you have to combo three cards (two weapons and this event) to get that +5 boost, and again, I really think the +3 is warranted considering it has to be combined with at least one weapon.

I've no problem with the initial +3, but the secondary +5 is a little bothersome. Sure, Final Shot can do it - but at the cost of moving multiple times, which is a BIG requirement. Bearing two weapons is pretty common with elves. Or, at least, certain kinds of elves. I might make it +3/+4 with perhaps some sort of recursion ability (top or bottom of deck) as well.

Quote
[1] Naith Armor [Elven]
Possession • Armor
Each minion skirmishing bearer loses all strength and damage bonuses from possessions and artifacts.
Skirmish: Discard this possession to discard a Shadow card borne by a character in bearer's skirmish.
The elegant design was made more for agility and deflection of weapons than beauty, perfected over many centuries of warfare with Sauron's forces.

Pretty awesome.

Quote
[1] Brooch of Lórien [Elven]
Possession • Brooch
Resistance +1
To play, spot an Elf. Bearer must be a companion.
Response: If another possession or artifact borne by bearer is about to be discarded, add [1] and discard this possession to prevent that.
"It looked like the new-opened leaf of a beech-tree, fair and strange...."

Fine, but unfortunately not terribly good because it's best ability - saving artifacts - is sort of unusable, except against one card.

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December 11, 2008, 04:24:35 AM
Reply #46

lem0nhead

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Re: The Way Into Mordor - Elves (12/10: They may have Elven Armaments, but....)
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2008, 04:24:35 AM »
Like the armor, brooch is ok but really not gonna be used.

I stand by my +2/+5 for knife work.
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December 11, 2008, 05:52:46 AM
Reply #47

macheteman

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Re: The Way Into Mordor - Elves (12/10: They may have Elven Armaments, but....)
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2008, 05:52:46 AM »
i'm a little late here, but i just wanted to point out that in a way, [Gandalf] culture does have armor. the men can wear any rohan or gondor armor that says bearer must be a man. plus, they can use flaming brand, which is pretty sweet on grimmy or someone. :up:

December 11, 2008, 06:41:04 AM
Reply #48

DáinIronfoot

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Okay, I have very reluctantly gone back and raised the cost of Knife-work to [2]. I'm more open to that than changing the stats, but if people are insistent, I COULD be persuaded to change it to +3/+4 and go back to [1]. Maybe.

In the meantime, let's go back to something a little less controversial and revisit Legolas for a brief while. Or more accurately, the relationship between Gimli and Legolas (and Elves in general). You may or may not remember these cards from the [Dwarven] culture:

[2]Stout Companion [Dwarven]
Condition
Resistance +1
Tale. Bearer must be a Dwarf.
Each time bearer wins a fierce skirmish, you may heal a non-[Dwarven] companion.
Regroup: Discard this condition to heal bearer (twice if at a battleground or mountain site).
"‘But you comfort me, Gimli, and I am glad to have you standing nigh with your stout legs and your hard axe. I wish there were more of your kin among us.'"

[1]Counting Game [Dwarven]
Condition • Support Area
Tale. Each time a minion is killed or discarded in a skirmish involving Gimli, you may add a [Dwarven] token here.
While the number of tokens here and the number of tokens on Scoring Game are each X, Legolas is strength +1 for each token here (limit +5).
"‘Twenty-one! Now my count passes Master Legolas again.'"


Well, today we get to the [Elven] equivolents. Enjoy!

[2]Faithful Companion [Elven]
Condition
Resistance +1
Tale. Bearer must be an Elf.
Each time bearer wins a fierce skirmish, you may heal a non-Elf companion.
Regroup: Discard this condition to heal bearer (twice if at a battleground or forest site).
"‘Yet you comfort me. Where you go, I will go. But keep your bow ready to hand, and I will keep my axe loose in my belt.'"

Just as Stout Companion had lore from Legolas about Gimli, this one has strikingly similiar lore from Gimli about Legolas. The conditions are nearly identical otherwise, which is something I typically shy away from, but I personally think really works in this case. What do YOU think?

[1]Scoring Game [Elven]
Condition • Support Area
Tale. Each time a minion is killed or discarded in a skirmish involving Legolas (or as a result of Legolas' archery ability), you may add an [Elven] token here.
While the number of tokens here and the number of tokens on Counting Game are each X, Gimli is strength +1 for each token here (limit +5).
"‘I desired to tell Master Gimli that my tale is now thirty-nine.'"

Just as Counting Game was a sort of remake of My Axe Is Notched, this is a remake of Final Count, and perhaps the slightly better of the two since it includes potential archery kills (Greenleaf, anyone? ;)). These remade cards are intended to capture the fun of the old My Axe Is Notched/Final Count cycle while potentially being much more useful, with a hefty +5 boost possible as opposed to just +3. Granted, it requires killing minions rather than just winning skirmishes against them, but with Gimli's regular damage bonuses and the damage afforded to certain Elves (and Legolas especially) in this set, it could be easier than you might think.

One more little example of that:

[1] Faeg i-varv [Elven]
Event • Skirmish
Make a minion skirmishing an Elf strength -2 (and exert that minion if you can spot Gimli).
"‘Shall I describe it to you? Or would you like me to find you a box?'"

Always loved Khazad ai-Menu, and always thought it was a shame that the partnership there ended with [Dwarven]. Why not an [Elven] equivalent? So here one is, finally. :up: Too powerful at [1], though? You tell me.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 11:00:05 AM by DáinIronfoot »
Best regards,
Dáin


Check out Lasting Alliances and The Road Ahead, my two completed DC sets, and also The Way Into Mordor (in progress), all part of my 5-set Wars of the Ring DC "block".

December 11, 2008, 10:57:36 AM
Reply #49

Thranduil

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[2]Stout Companion [Dwarven]
Condition
Resistance +1
Tale. Bearer must be a Dwarf.
Each time bearer wins a fierce skirmish, you may heal a non-[Dwarven] companion.
Regroup: Discard this condition to heal bearer (twice if at a battleground or mountain site).
"‘But you comfort me, Gimli, and I am glad to have you standing nigh with your stout legs and your hard axe. I wish there were more of your kin among us.'"

[1]Counting Game [Dwarven]
Condition • Support Area
Tale. Each time a minion is killed or discarded in a skirmish involving Gimli, you may add a [Dwarven] token here.
While the number of tokens here and the number of tokens on Scoring Game are each X, Legolas is strength +1 for each token here (limit +5).
"‘Twenty-one! Now my count passes Master Legolas again.'"


Well, today we get to the [Elven] equivolents. Enjoy!

[2]Faithful Companion [Elven]
Condition
Resistance +1
Tale. Bearer must be an Elf.
Each time bearer wins a fierce skirmish, you may heal a non-Elf companion.
Regroup: Discard this condition to heal bearer (twice if at a battleground or forest site).
"‘Yet you comfort me. Where you go, I will go. But keep your bow ready to hand, and I will keep my axe loose in my belt.'"

[1]Scoring Game [Elven]
Condition • Support Area
Tale. Each time a minion is killed or discarded in a skirmish involving Legolas (or as a result of Legolas' archery ability), you may add an [Elven] token here.
While the number of tokens here and the number of tokens on Counting Game are each X, Gimli is strength +1 for each token here (limit +5).
"‘I desired to tell Master Gimli that my tale is now thirty-nine.'"
Yeah, fair enough. If only there was a really clean way of referring to all those minions killed during the archery phase because of Legolas... I might exclude skirmish from this one completely and have "Each time a minion is killed during the archery phase, you may spot Legolas to add an [Elven] token here." You're not going to be packing that much non-Legolas archery if you're running a Gimli/Legolas deck, so it should be fine (and I don't think running Rumil and Orophin with his card is a problem).

[1] Faeg i-varv [Elven]
Event • Skirmish
Make a minion skirmishing an Elf strength -2 (or strength -3 and make that Elf damage +1 if you can spot Gimli).
"‘Shall I describe it to you? Or would you like me to find you a box?'"
I used to love Khazad-ai-Menu as well. I don't think this should give Legolas a damage bonus, I think it's good enough just making a minion strength -3 (or maybe -4 instead). Damage works on Khazad-ai-Menu because it's what Dwarves do. Elves do strength reductions, so I don't think you should get a damage bonus with Faeg i-varv.

Also, just out of curiosity, what does Faeg i-varv mean?

Thranduil

December 11, 2008, 11:02:29 AM
Reply #50

DáinIronfoot

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Quote from: Thranduil
Quote from: DáinIronfoot
[1] Faeg i-varv [Elven]
Event • Skirmish
Make a minion skirmishing an Elf strength -2 (or strength -3 and make that Elf damage +1 if you can spot Gimli).
"‘Shall I describe it to you? Or would you like me to find you a box?'"
I used to love Khazad-ai-Menu as well. I don't think this should give Legolas a damage bonus, I think it's good enough just making a minion strength -3 (or maybe -4 instead). Damage works on Khazad-ai-Menu because it's what Dwarves do. Elves do strength reductions, so I don't think you should get a damage bonus with Faeg i-varv.

I opted to do something else with it entirely. Something that might be even more useful, actually....

Quote from: Thranduil
Also, just out of curiosity, what does Faeg i-varv mean?

It's the first part of Legolas' line "Their armor is weak at the neck...and under the arms." Yes, doesn't fit entirely, but it DOES at least fit with the text.
Best regards,
Dáin


Check out Lasting Alliances and The Road Ahead, my two completed DC sets, and also The Way Into Mordor (in progress), all part of my 5-set Wars of the Ring DC "block".

December 12, 2008, 02:56:31 AM
Reply #51

lem0nhead

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[2]Faithful Companion [Elven]
Condition
Resistance +1
Tale. Bearer must be an Elf.
Each time bearer wins a fierce skirmish, you may heal a non-Elf companion.
Regroup: Discard this condition to heal bearer (twice if at a battleground or forest site).
"‘Yet you comfort me. Where you go, I will go. But keep your bow ready to hand, and I will keep my axe loose in my belt.'"

Think it could cost 1 honestly and the lore is cool.

[1]Scoring Game [Elven]
Condition • Support Area
Tale. Each time a minion is killed or discarded in a skirmish involving Legolas (or as a result of Legolas' archery ability), you may add an [Elven] token here.
While the number of tokens here and the number of tokens on Counting Game are each X, Gimli is strength +1 for each token here (limit +5).
"‘I desired to tell Master Gimli that my tale is now thirty-nine.'"

Parenthesis is very weird and unconventional. Think the phrasing should be while you can spot X tokens on blah and blah then gimli is strength +X. That way you have to spot the smallest amount available on both.

[1] Faeg i-varv [Elven]
Event • Skirmish
Make a minion skirmishing an Elf strength -2 (and exert that minion if you can spot Gimli).
"‘Shall I describe it to you? Or would you like me to find you a box?'"

Hehe LOVE the lore.

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December 12, 2008, 07:56:37 AM
Reply #52

DáinIronfoot

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Re: The Way Into Mordor - Elves (12/12: Little Elves aren't just for Santa!)
« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2008, 07:56:37 AM »
:-k I will strongly consider the suggestions of the Juicy Fruit, especially the one with Counting/Scoring Game. Good calls.

For now, back to actual Elves. These are the common guys. Enjoy!

[1]Orolonn, Young Swordsman [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 2
Resistance: 6
To play, spot an Elf.
The twilight cost of each hand weapon played on Orolonn is -1.
He and his brother Ordulus both fought with skill far beyond their years on the Deeping Wall.

Always loved little Ordulus, Young Warrior. I figured a similar companion to work with the new hand weapon emphasis would work nicely, and while I was making these guys up, I figured why not make him a relative of young Ordulus? 'Twould be fun to start them both together, wouldn't it?

[2] Naith Guardian [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
Hunter 1. Berserker 1. (This character is strength +1 for each wound on each character in its skirmish.) To play, spot an Elf.
Each time this companion wins a fierce skirmish, you may heal an unbound companion with resistance 5 or more.
"‘But there are some of us still who go abroad for the gathering of news and the watching of our enemies....'"

I confess: I stole the lore not from the text of The Two Towers, but from The Fellowship of the Ring. I did this because Naith Warband does the same, a fact that most people don't know and surprised me when I found out. Oddly, it really works, so I decided to go back to the future and do the same myself.

[2] Naith Warrior [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 7
This companion gains hunter 1 for each weapon he bears.
"‘Yet so little faith and trust do we find now in the world beyond Lothlórien...our hands are more often upon the bowstring than upon the harp.'"

Ditto here.

Anyway, are these non-unique guys too good? I wanted to make them above-average non-unique companions, since most such companions are pretty useless. Did I go too far the other direction?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 08:19:52 AM by DáinIronfoot »
Best regards,
Dáin


Check out Lasting Alliances and The Road Ahead, my two completed DC sets, and also The Way Into Mordor (in progress), all part of my 5-set Wars of the Ring DC "block".

December 12, 2008, 10:45:17 AM
Reply #53

sickofpalantirs

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Re: The Way Into Mordor - Elves (12/12: Little Elves aren't just for Santa!)
« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2008, 10:45:17 AM »
:-k I will strongly consider the suggestions of the Juicy Fruit, especially the one with Counting/Scoring Game. Good calls.

For now, back to actual Elves. These are the common guys. Enjoy!

[1]Orolonn, Young Swordsman [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 2
Resistance: 6
To play, spot an Elf.
The twilight cost of each hand weapon played on Orolonn is -1.
He and his brother Ordulus both fought with skill far beyond their years on the Deeping Wall.
fine

[2] Naith Guardian [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
Hunter 1.
This companion is strength +1 for each wound on each minion he is skirmishing.
Each time this companion wins a fierce skirmish, you may heal an unbound companion with resistance 4 or more.
"‘But there are some of us still who go abroad for the gathering of news and the watching of our enemies....'"
ditto below

[2] Naith Warrior [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
While this companion is bearing a weapon, he gains hunter 2.
Response: If you play an [Elven] event during a skirmish involving this companion, exert this companion to shuffle that event into your draw deck.
"‘Yet so little faith and trust do we find now in the world beyond Lothlórien...our hands are more often upon the bowstring than upon the harp.'"
I think he should not have the second ability at all personally...
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December 13, 2008, 10:31:30 AM
Reply #54

Elf_Lvr

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Re: The Way Into Mordor - Elves (12/12: Little Elves aren't just for Santa!)
« Reply #54 on: December 13, 2008, 10:31:30 AM »
[1]Orolonn, Young Swordsman [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 2
Resistance: 6
To play, spot an Elf.
The twilight cost of each hand weapon played on Orolonn is -1.
He and his brother Ordulus both fought with skill far beyond their years on the Deeping Wall.

He actually makes Ordulus a TON better, because now you can start something other than Lorien Elf with him and a [2]-cost dude. He's fine.

Quote
[2] Naith Guardian [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
Hunter 1.
This companion is strength +1 for each wound on each minion he is skirmishing.
Each time this companion wins a fierce skirmish, you may heal an unbound companion with resistance 4 or more.
"‘But there are some of us still who go abroad for the gathering of news and the watching of our enemies....'"

I don't know. Healing on a non-unique guy is pretty nasty, even if it's really circumstantial. Probably fine, though.

Quote
[2] Naith Warrior [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
While this companion is bearing a weapon, he gains hunter 2.
Response: If you play an [Elven] event during a skirmish involving this companion, exert this companion to shuffle that event into your draw deck.
"‘Yet so little faith and trust do we find now in the world beyond Lothlórien...our hands are more often upon the bowstring than upon the harp.'"

He's fine, but he kind of overshadows a bunch of other non-unique elven guys.
Happy Hunting!
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Maybe you guys can find a bard and have your story of heroic Balrog proximity put into verse.

December 14, 2008, 04:59:43 AM
Reply #55

Thranduil

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Re: The Way Into Mordor - Elves (12/12: Little Elves aren't just for Santa!)
« Reply #55 on: December 14, 2008, 04:59:43 AM »
[1]Orolonn, Young Swordsman [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 2
Resistance: 6
To play, spot an Elf.
The twilight cost of each hand weapon played on Orolonn is -1.
He and his brother Ordulus both fought with skill far beyond their years on the Deeping Wall.
Yeah, fair enough. I probably wouldn't use him or Ordulus, but still fine.

[2] Naith Guardian [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
Hunter 1.
This companion is strength +1 for each wound on each minion he is skirmishing.
Each time this companion wins a fierce skirmish, you may heal an unbound companion with resistance 4 or more.
"‘But there are some of us still who go abroad for the gathering of news and the watching of our enemies....'"
No, I agree with SoP - he doesn't need the second ability. Without it, this guy is awesome.

[2] Naith Warrior [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
While this companion is bearing a weapon, he gains hunter 2.
Response: If you play an [Elven] event during a skirmish involving this companion, exert this companion to shuffle that event into your draw deck.
"‘Yet so little faith and trust do we find now in the world beyond Lothlórien...our hands are more often upon the bowstring than upon the harp.'"
Again I'm agreeing with SoP - just because Elves already have awesome non-unique companions, doesn't mean you have to try and overshadow them. Simplest is best, I feel.

Thranduil

December 15, 2008, 01:24:56 AM
Reply #56

lem0nhead

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Re: The Way Into Mordor - Elves (12/12: Little Elves aren't just for Santa!)
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2008, 01:24:56 AM »

[1]Orolonn, Young Swordsman [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 2
Resistance: 6
To play, spot an Elf.
The twilight cost of each hand weapon played on Orolonn is -1.
He and his brother Ordulus both fought with skill far beyond their years on the Deeping Wall.

Meh.

[2] Naith Guardian [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
Hunter 1.
This companion is strength +1 for each wound on each minion he is skirmishing.
Each time this companion wins a fierce skirmish, you may heal an unbound companion with resistance 4 or more.
"‘But there are some of us still who go abroad for the gathering of news and the watching of our enemies....'"

Wow this guy is quite good for a common standard miscellaneous elf.

[2] Naith Warrior [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
While this companion is bearing a weapon, he gains hunter 2.
Response: If you play an [Elven] event during a skirmish involving this companion, exert this companion to shuffle that event into your draw deck.
"‘Yet so little faith and trust do we find now in the world beyond Lothlórien...our hands are more often upon the bowstring than upon the harp.'"

Again, erring on the side of awesome for a 'mr nobody' elf.

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That's like having "Some Who Ride Ponies" as a Rohan follower. ~ Dain Ironfoot.

December 15, 2008, 08:36:00 AM
Reply #57

DáinIronfoot

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Re: The Way Into Mordor - Elves (12/15: More Naith...not so little this time!)
« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2008, 08:36:00 AM »
Alright, I tweaked Naith Guardian, adding a spotting requirement and my new keyword from the [Isengard] thread :uh-huh:. I left his healing ability intact, but I DID make it a little harder to use by changing it to companions with resistance 5 or more (it was 4+ before). If that, with the spotting requirement in mind, is STILL too much, let me know.

I reluctantly dropped the Naith Warrior's second ability, but tweaked his hunter text so it's more flexible (and potentially more useful), and raised his resistance a touch for a little more incentive.

Little Orolonn is unchanged. w00t. ;D

Here are a couple more. Enjoy!

[2]Amras, Naith Scout [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
Hunter 1.
Response:
If Amras bears a ranged weapon and you play an [Elven] event during the archery phase, exert him to shuffle that event into your draw deck.
Response: If Amras bears a hand weapon and you play an [Elven] event during a skirmish involving him, exert him to shuffle that event into your draw deck.
For centuries he had patrolled the borders of Lothlórien. His fair eyes did him well in the gloom of the Deeping-coomb.

Ha! I'm getting that ability on an Elf somehow! ;) You said (and probably rightly) that it was too good a non-unique Elf. How about for a unique one?

[2]Githramir, Naith Veteran [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
Hunter 1. To play, spot an Elf.
Githramir is strength +1 for each of the following that is true: he is at a battleground, he is at a forest site, he is bearing a hand weapon, he is skirmishing an Orc or Uruk-hai.
Githramir had spent many centuries guarding the forests of Lothlórien from goblins and orcs, and his experience was evident in Helm's Deep.

Built-in Standing Tall! Or similar, anyway.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2008, 07:35:42 AM by DáinIronfoot »
Best regards,
Dáin


Check out Lasting Alliances and The Road Ahead, my two completed DC sets, and also The Way Into Mordor (in progress), all part of my 5-set Wars of the Ring DC "block".

December 15, 2008, 08:39:11 AM
Reply #58

Thranduil

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Re: The Way Into Mordor - Elves (12/15: More Naith...not so little this time!)
« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2008, 08:39:11 AM »
[2]Amras, Naith Scout [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
Hunter 1.
Response:
If Amras bears a ranged weapon and you play an [Elven] event during the archery phase, exert him to shuffle that event into your draw deck.
Response: If Amras bears a hand weapon and you play an [Elven] event during a skirmish involving him, exert him to shuffle that event into your draw deck.
For centuries he had patrolled the borders of Lothlórien. His fair eyes did him well in the gloom of the Deeping-coomb.
Tis cool. A good recycling of the other guy's funky ability.

[2]Githramir, Naith Veteran [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 4
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
Hunter 1.
Githramir is strength +1 for each of the following that is true: he is at a battleground, he is at a forest site, he is bearing a hand weapon, he is skirmishing an Orc or Uruk-hai.
Githramir had spent many centuries guarding the forests of Lothlórien from goblins and orcs, and his experience was evident in Helm's Deep.
I'd replace one of those with "he is bearing a ranged weapon", as hand weapon + ranged weapon seems to be your theme (probably forest site).

Thranduil

December 15, 2008, 08:54:30 AM
Reply #59

DáinIronfoot

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Re: The Way Into Mordor - Elves (12/15: More Naith...not so little this time!)
« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2008, 08:54:30 AM »
Actually, the main theme is supposed to be hand weapons, but there's been plenty of ranged stuff too. Trying to rein it in a little now. :P
« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 08:56:23 AM by DáinIronfoot »
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Check out Lasting Alliances and The Road Ahead, my two completed DC sets, and also The Way Into Mordor (in progress), all part of my 5-set Wars of the Ring DC "block".