Another question...

[Olorin]

If my opponent plays corsair marauder to discard one of my possessions may I prevent that if I use shadowplay/unheeded combo and kill corsair marauder immediately?
Was this minion than played?

[Gil-Estel]

I would say no, due to the double action you're taking

[Olorin]

hmm... if this is dependant of the double action... than it could be possible though... but the minion is played, or not?

[Pepin The Breve]

If my opponent plays corsair marauder to discard one of my possessions may I prevent that if I use shadowplay/unheeded combo and kill corsair marauder immediately?
Was this minion than played?

  GE is right. As a free people player you get the first opportunity to respond to the playing, so you can trigger Shadowplay and exert Marauder. Then the shadow player get his/her turn and choose a possession to discard. Only then the freeps can play Unheeded to kill Marauder.

[Pepin The Breve]

hmm... if this is dependant of the double action... than it could be possible though... but the minion is played, or not?

  According with step 4 of the "playing a card" issue the card is already in play. The effects "when you play" (and the opportunity to respond to this card being played) happens now. Other efects happen later.

[Olorin]

hmm... thanks guys... this sounds logically to me...

I am just wondering if there is a "one-step" method to kill such a minion before the effects happen? - any idea?

[Elessar's Socks]

Shadowplay and Unheeded have different triggers. For each trigger, optional actions follow the action procedure. That means the FP player gets the first shot (with optional actions) both when the Marauder is played, and when the Marauder exerts. So yes, you can kill the Marauder before the Shadow player gets the opportunity to discard a possession.

[Olorin]

Really?
I think that would be a great chance to protect his possessions from corsair marauder or mumak commander... I didn't really know this... but thanks Elessar's Socks!

Have a

[Pepin The Breve]

   I see ES point and i guess he may be right but i´m still not sure about it.

   I guess the freeps have the first chance to respond....then they respond again to the situation created by his first response and the poor shadow player lose his action? Kinda unfair but...hey...who says that lotr tcg was a fair game?

[HawkeyeSPF]

ES is wrong. The marauder was still played, and the SP still gets to discard a weapon and add tokens.

I don't have time to find the exact rule right now, but will you take my word knowing that I was a worlds level judge?

[Pepin The Breve]

   Well, i think the best way of clearing a doubt when the rulebook seems unconclusive is  a word of an ex-decipher agent 

   So i must say that justice was done...

[leokula]

Shadowplay and Unheeded have different triggers. For each trigger, optional actions follow the action procedure. That means the FP player gets the first shot (with optional actions) both when the Marauder is played, and when the Marauder exerts. So yes, you can kill the Marauder before the Shadow player gets the opportunity to discard a possession.

That doens't exist, man, there's no way you exert and wound and the shadow player just sit and watch.

All "When you play" actions would happen before the response to the exertion. You can't respond to the exertion if not all "when you play" actions have been performed yet.

ES is wrong. The marauder was still played, and the SP still gets to discard a weapon and add tokens.

I don't have time to find the exact rule right now, but will you take my word knowing that I was a worlds level judge?

I will

[Olorin]

...interesting...

[Elessar's Socks]

Are we talking about two different things here? Is the order correct but the Shadow player still gets to discard, or is the order itself incorrect? I left it ambiguous here until I could get a response in this thread. I agree that either way, the Marauder was played.

If it's the former, that actually brings things in line with costs/effects (unless the ruling is reversed for those).

I'm not sure "fizzling" is even covered in the rulebook. Let the Worlds level judge decide.

[Thranduil]

Shadowplay and Unheeded have different triggers. For each trigger, optional actions follow the action procedure. That means the FP player gets the first shot (with optional actions) both when the Marauder is played, and when the Marauder exerts. So yes, you can kill the Marauder before the Shadow player gets the opportunity to discard a possession.

Surely by this logic the Marauder discards a possession.

1) The card is played
2) Any action that triggered off the playing of the card happens, starting with the Free Peoples player and Shadowplay, followed by the Shadow player discarding a possession.
3) Now there's new things happening and the Free Peoples player gets to respond to the exertion with Unheeded.

Thranduil