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Author Topic: Broken Token  (Read 29006 times)

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February 12, 2009, 09:50:59 PM
Reply #30

Elessar's Socks

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Re: Broken Token
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2009, 09:50:59 PM »
Couple of thoughts:

- Maybe start Smeagol and use Dammed Gate-stream / Something Slimy to grab Leaving Forever. The deck only needs one copy, so might as well grab it fast. A second culture is also one more safeguard against a site 2 Dark Horseman. Extra copies of other conditions could also be replaced with Something Slimy, at the risk of DH throwing a spanner in the works.

- Wondering if you can get by with fewer copies of Uncertain Paths. I really like the hefty bonus from Final Shot.

February 13, 2009, 06:25:55 AM
Reply #31

Kralik

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Re: Broken Token
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2009, 06:25:55 AM »
The Smeagol trick is a good one that I hadn't considered, but I'm not sure it benefits too much, since you replace 2 cards with 2 others. In other words, no extra card slots and now my deck (with no burden removal) requires me to go first.

I think I did try Final Shot once, but since it's not as good as Fleet-footed usually, I took it out. Perhaps I could try 2x Fleet-footed, 2x Uncertain Paths and 2x Final Shot. However, IMO Uncertain Paths is needed to keep Still Needed from getting stuck at the bottom of the deck.

EDIT: I don't think Nertea is too big of a threat, since with all of the Elvents any of the elves, including Galadriel, should be fine taking him on.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 06:28:43 AM by Kralik »

February 13, 2009, 10:31:26 PM
Reply #32

GloinTheDark

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Re: Broken Token
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2009, 10:31:26 PM »
Wow!  Gil-Galad is insane!  I have an elven token deck that uses him.  This is the kind of deck I would play against my friend and he would get upset and complain about how broken the combo is.  I already use Gil-Galad to recycle Leaving Forever, but to discard Uncertain Paths with it and then replay it for 3 more tokens is brilliant! 

Anyway, I still don't have a problem with the Silver Ewer, though.  I suppose it is a card that is thought of as broken because of Gil-Galad's ability to add threats to get a bunch of skirmish events, but again, that is Gil-Galad's fault. 

I'm actually thinking about pulling my Gil-Galad out of my Token deck and putting him in the elvent deck.  If I use threats to pull events back and use Glorfindel to remove threats I'd feel like I wasn't completely abusing him. 

Wasn't there a Gandalf Combo that resulted in some x-list overhaul?  It discarded all of the cards in your opponents deck, healed everybody, discarded all minions, and increased the move limit.

Also, I agree with Olorin.  It should only be allowed AT THE START OF THE REGROUP PHASE which would only allow it once.  It could only happen 7 times in the game and possibly less if you didn't get Gil-Galad soon enough.  Then discarding a token for a condition wouldn't be so bad, but it probably would be better if it were 2 tokens. 

It probably should only allow you to get a skirmish event at the start of the maneuver phase, or add 2 threats instead of one.   Well, regardless, nothing will officially be done about it so whatever.

February 14, 2009, 03:31:01 AM
Reply #33

Elrohir

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Re: Broken Token
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2009, 03:31:01 AM »
I already use Gil-Galad to recycle Leaving Forever, but to discard Uncertain Paths with it and then replay it for 3 more tokens is brilliant!
I think it is uncertain future, but other cards, like Lothlorien guides and seclusion can discard also FP conditions.

Imagine, Gil-Galad gets Saurons gaze! Other ugly cards are Redhorn pass, Balrog DoM, Unseen Foe, Sting of Shelob and much more...

Why is it broken? You can discard each condition, draw your whole deck and play every condition from your discard pile...
Saruman Power discards each condition, Move this way approaches to drawing your deck!

Saurons might does work also well! Or just kill Gil-Galad, or even better - kill the ringbearer!
You gave away your life's grace. I cannot protect you anymore.

February 14, 2009, 04:55:53 AM
Reply #34

Olorin

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Re: Broken Token
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2009, 04:55:53 AM »
Wow!  Gil-Galad is insane!  I have an elven token deck that uses him.  This is the kind of deck I would play against my friend and he would get upset and complain about how broken the combo is.  I already use Gil-Galad to recycle Leaving Forever, but to discard Uncertain Paths with it and then replay it for 3 more tokens is brilliant! 

Anyway, I still don't have a problem with the Silver Ewer, though.  I suppose it is a card that is thought of as broken because of Gil-Galad's ability to add threats to get a bunch of skirmish events, but again, that is Gil-Galad's fault. 

I'm actually thinking about pulling my Gil-Galad out of my Token deck and putting him in the elvent deck.  If I use threats to pull events back and use Glorfindel to remove threats I'd feel like I wasn't completely abusing him. 

Wasn't there a Gandalf Combo that resulted in some x-list overhaul?  It discarded all of the cards in your opponents deck, healed everybody, discarded all minions, and increased the move limit.

Also, I agree with Olorin.  It should only be allowed AT THE START OF THE REGROUP PHASE which would only allow it once.  It could only happen 7 times in the game and possibly less if you didn't get Gil-Galad soon enough.  Then discarding a token for a condition wouldn't be so bad, but it probably would be better if it were 2 tokens. 

It probably should only allow you to get a skirmish event at the start of the maneuver phase, or add 2 threats instead of one.   Well, regardless, nothing will officially be done about it so whatever.

I wonder if it is possible to contact decipher and they should put Gil-Galad High-king of the Noldor officially onto the X-list? Or at least they should officially legalize my suggested errata.

We all need to consider that there are some so much broken combos possible (and I mean Standard Format only!!!):
ancient bladel
Namarie
leaving forever
gladden homestead
etc.
The Elves play ALL their condtions again and again... you will never get rid of them... but on the other hand they discard ALL the other shadow conditions with Namarie - THIS IS BROKEN
Please stop arguing if Gil-Galad is broken or not. This should not be a matter of question... it's a fact!

I mean Silver Ewer an Glorfindel are already very very powerful cards (nearly broken, but not really).
It is broken like Madril DoO.

@Elrohir: Gil-Galad is a potential Strength 15, Vitality 6 companion - this companion may be killed in theory but hardly to nearly impossible in practise.

I think there is are a lot of ways to play very powerful elven decks - but with Gil-Galad you already won the game (in two ways: he might prevent to make a shadow work or he might do his part to make the elves unstoppable).
Mithrandir I am known to the Elves, Tharkun to the dwarves; Olorin was the name in my youth in the West which is forgotten, in the South Incanus, in the North Gandalf; into the East I will not go."

February 14, 2009, 05:07:56 AM
Reply #35

Elrohir

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Re: Broken Token
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2009, 05:07:56 AM »
 :o
NO, I mean really NO card should be on the x-list! Erratas are far better...

Discarding all shadow conditions hurts, but who cares? A shadow, who can not act without conditions is a bad shadow...
other cultures cancel all skirmishes, others may discards all possesions, and others remove all threats and burdens, I do not understand where the problem is.

And now, please, stop accusing Gil-Galad of being overpowered! My shadows does not fear him, why should anyone else do?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2009, 05:11:14 AM by Elrohir »
You gave away your life's grace. I cannot protect you anymore.

February 14, 2009, 08:08:51 AM
Reply #36

Kralik

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Re: Broken Token
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2009, 08:08:51 AM »
I wonder if it is possible to contact decipher and they should put Gil-Galad High-king of the Noldor officially onto the X-list? Or at least they should officially legalize my suggested errata.

You have to remember two things:
1) Decipher has already errata'd Gil-Galad, and
2) Decipher does not care about LotR any more.

February 14, 2009, 12:49:59 PM
Reply #37

GloinTheDark

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Re: Broken Token
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2009, 12:49:59 PM »
Yes, I meant Uncertain Future.

February 26, 2009, 01:05:04 PM
Reply #38

Imrahil

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Re: Broken Token
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2009, 01:05:04 PM »
wow. I saw that Gil-Galad and I started to drool, but then I looked at some of the other cards in T&D and I realized why I don't play anything beyond Bloodlines.  Too much craziness.

And yes, the high king needs an errata.  What was Decipher doing?!
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February 26, 2009, 04:00:22 PM
Reply #39

TheJord

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Re: Broken Token
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2009, 04:00:22 PM »
He has errata ;D
"The rule of Gondor is mine!"

February 26, 2009, 10:10:39 PM
Reply #40

Olorin

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Re: Broken Token
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2009, 10:10:39 PM »
wow. I saw that Gil-Galad and I started to drool, but then I looked at some of the other cards in T&D and I realized why I don't play anything beyond Bloodlines.  Too much craziness.

And yes, the high king needs an errata.  What was Decipher doing?!

"What was Decipher doing?!" - that's always also my question...

...and yes, he has an errata... but even now he is broken... I self got a Deck with this Gil-Galad - but only to show that he is broken - even with this ridiculous errata.
Mithrandir I am known to the Elves, Tharkun to the dwarves; Olorin was the name in my youth in the West which is forgotten, in the South Incanus, in the North Gandalf; into the East I will not go."

April 28, 2012, 01:22:59 AM
Reply #41

Shakaroz

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Re: Broken Token
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2012, 01:22:59 AM »

FREEPS:
Galadriel, Bearer of Wisdom
The One Ring, The Ring of Rings

1x 14R2Elladan, Son of Elrond (starting)
1x 14R3Elrohir, Son of Elrond (starting)
4x 18R12Gil-galad, High King of the Noldor
2x 18R11Galadriel's Silver Ewer
2x 15U16Gift of the Evenstar, Blessed Light
1x 18R7Celebring, Elven-smith
3x 18U8 Elven Armaments
2x 13R10Asfaloth, Swift Blossom
2x 7U15Ancient Blade
2x 13C13 Crashing Cavalry
2x 7C23 Into the West
3x 7R24 Leaving Forever
2x 11U26Uncertain Future
4x 7C29 Still Needed
4x 7C30 Uncertain Paths

Basics:
You must get a few cards in play for this to work, and play it a bit by ear until you do. Namely, these are Galadriel's Silver Ewer, Gift of the Evenstar, Blessed Light, and of course, Gil-galad, High King of the Noldor. You can survive OK without the Ewer if you get Uncertain Future, but the latter is much easier for your opponent to discard.

Full Rundown:
*Celebring, ES helps with getting artifacts outs; Elven Armaments is a good all-around booster that helps vs. archery.
*Gil-galad takes Elvents into hand during Manuever.
*Elvents and twin bros both are powerful and add tokens. Overwhelm minions, unless they are fierce.
*Asfaloth, Swift Blossom heals with tokens. Overwhelm fierce minions on second skirmish. ;)
*Recycle Still Needed if you don't have Gil-galad and Into the West yet (or if you want it with Leaving Forever).
*REGROUP MADNESS:

First of all, sorry for the necro. I know this post is old. The reason I am renewing this thread is to ask a couple of questions in relation to how some of the combos in the deck work. I am making different decks on Gemp LotR and this is one of the archetype decks I simply can't ignore. I am basically trying to understand the principles behind all the powerful archetypes of decks and hopefully play test them on Gemp LotR to get a feeling for how the standard format works.

'Use Gift of the Evenstar, Blessed Light to play uncertain future' then, 'use uncertain future to play leaving forever'

How does this work exactly? The wording confuses me and I am not quite sure what the combo actually accomplishes. I understand the last part that surely takes place during the regroup phase where uncertaun future is discarded by leaving forever. I just don't see what the first part does exactly.

I assume this is the combo to add infinite amount of tokens to Gift of the Evenstar, Blessed Light, in order for example Asfaloth,Swift Blossom to heal every companion to full health if a fierce skirmish happens.

Also somewhere in the comment section of this thread it is mentioned: Elrohir found a way to make this deck truly broken. What combo is this?

April 28, 2012, 07:10:31 AM
Reply #42

Vroengard

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Re: Broken Token
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2012, 07:10:31 AM »
not enough companions anyways, needs 1-2 more. You have no archery so you cant play just 4

Deck is not that strong anyways

March 04, 2013, 08:42:27 PM
Reply #43

Kralik

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Re: Broken Token
« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2013, 08:42:27 PM »
I haven't really played this deck since I made it, but I randomly saw it when searching for something else. Necro'ing the necro:

'Use Gift of the Evenstar, Blessed Light to play uncertain future' then, 'use uncertain future to play leaving forever'

How does this work exactly?

With Gil-Galad's regroup text.

Quote
Also somewhere in the comment section of this thread it is mentioned: Elrohir found a way to make this deck truly broken. What combo is this?

Namarie. It's possible to have multiple copies in play, hunter companions, and infinite tokens at your disposal. Leaving Forever can discard Namarie which can then be replayed.

March 04, 2013, 11:47:06 PM
Reply #44

Zurcamos

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Re: Broken Token
« Reply #44 on: March 04, 2013, 11:47:06 PM »
With Gil-Galad's regroup text.

Now, I'm pretty vocal about not caring what Decipher said after set 10, but people have argued with me that the following rule makes it so you can't use BotB's regroup ability with cards like TaBA (we need not discuss NFFatRoD):

"A condition is always played during the fellowship phase (if it is a Free Peoples card) or the Shadow phase (if it is a Shadow card), even if it provides a special ability that is performed during a different phase."

I don't see how it being played from the discard pile should make it different (other than G-G being from that timeframe).  What am I missing?