The Way Into Mordor - Shire (9/30: Well-earned Comfort & Wonderful Folk)

[Thranduil]

I understand why working with hunters makes sense, but why does boosting your opponent's hunters? Merry and Pippin's presence doesn't make the Uruks any better.

Thranduil

[FM]

But it made then Hunters, they hunted them. The problem here is not the flavor, is how Decipher approached the hole "Hunter" mechanich, which was a very poor way.

[FM]

Hmm... Given that these guys support condition or possession discard, it seems like they ought to be rare at minimum. But at uncommon, I feel like these guys need abilities more common in the culture. I would suggest returning minions to its owner's hand (like Make Haste).

Two options: I can do something like you suggest and change "discard a non-minion Shadow card" in each of their texts to "return a non-minion Shadow card to its owner's hand", OR I can leave them common and change THIS version from the planned rare to an uncommon instead:

•Merry & •Pippin, Little Shirelings
Companions • Hobbits
Strength: 6
Vitality: 4
Signet: Frodo
Each hunter is strength +1.
The twilight cost of each pipeweed and stealth card is -1.
Skirmish: Exert Merry & Pippin to make each Ent and Tree strength +1 until the regroup phase.
"‘Our friends are out there. They need our help. They cannot fight this war on their own.'"

Yes, one of my fabled dual-character cards. (If you forget the gist of how such cards work, just ask.) This one is quite versatile, able to help out most of the main fellowship types from this set (hunters, stealthiness, pipeweeds, or Ents/Trees). None of those abilities are super-powerful, though, so the more I think about it, the more I think uncommon might be better than rare anyway.

What do you think, though?

I think dual characters are WAY too complicated at uncommon. Just the deck-saving space alone justifies it being rare. Also, I think a dual-4-vitality-hobbit should have more than 4 vitality. Perhaps even the full 8, but I'm guessing 6 might be enough. I'd also make them unable to take wounds during the archery phase, so as not to hose those decks too much while ALSO fitting the flavor of the TTT scene, since there are NO archery whatsoever except for that first javelin thrown by a rohirrim.

[DáinIronfoot]

I understand why working with hunters makes sense, but why does boosting your opponent's hunters? Merry and Pippin's presence doesn't make the Uruks any better.

But it made then Hunters, they hunted them. The problem here is not the flavor, is how Decipher approached the hole "Hunter" mechanich, which was a very poor way.

Hunter is not one Big D's better ideas, no. So many other things they could have done with keywords instead, as many of our DCers have shown. Sigh.

That all being said, it exists, so I make use of it, but I try and only do so where it makes sense. With the groups I mentioned, it DOES make sense. As you said, FM, Merry and Pippin really MADE the Orcs and Uruks into hunters, as they also made the Three Hunters...well, the Three Hunters. To me, it makes sense for the "Little Shirelings" to help out both, even if it is, like in the story, inadvertent. In this case, it's a potential drawback on an otherwise powerfully useful companion (especially now that it only costs ).

•Merry & •Pippin, Little Shirelings
Companions • Hobbits
Strength: 6
Vitality: 4
Signet: Frodo
Each hunter is strength +1.
The twilight cost of each pipeweed and stealth card is -1.
Skirmish: Exert Merry & Pippin to make each Ent and Tree strength +1 until the regroup phase.
"‘Our friends are out there. They need our help. They cannot fight this war on their own.'"

I think dual characters are WAY too complicated at uncommon. Just the deck-saving space alone justifies it being rare. Also, I think a dual-4-vitality-hobbit should have more than 4 vitality. Perhaps even the full 8, but I'm guessing 6 might be enough. I'd also make them unable to take wounds during the archery phase, so as not to hose those decks too much while ALSO fitting the flavor of the TTT scene, since there are NO archery whatsoever except for that first javelin thrown by a rohirrim.

We've got to stop posting things at the same time, FM!

For dual-characters, I tend to have certain things that make sense to "stack" (like strength and cost) added to each other, but things that make sense to share (or merge, if you will) NOT be added together. In my mind, vitality is one of those.

Think about it. If Merry and Pippin were separate companions that you somehow got in the same skirmish, their strength would be added together to calculate the results of the skirmish. But if they were to lose, they would BOTH take damage, so thus both of their vitality would be reduced. That same concept then applies here by adding their strength together (3+3=6) but "merging" their vitality (they each normally have 4, so combined they ALSO have only 4). Not only does this keep the cost down (I can get away with a -cost 6/4 companion, but 6/8 or even 6/6 would require something around or more, don't you think?), but it also makes the most sense, in my opinion, in lining up with the current character rules. Now if two companions with different vitalities ended up on the same dual-character card (which I don't THINK I've done anywhere to avoid confusion, but just hypothetically), then I would likely go with the higher one, but I don't see any really logical reason to go higher than normal otherwise.

I like the archery idea, but I think I'll save that for a condition or something instead, so that ANY version of Merry or Pippin (or both, in this case ) can make use of it. They'll have plenty of stealth in this set, so I should be able to tie those two together.

Oh, and Little Shirelings WILL be a rare. I already decided, as you have, that all dual-characters likely should be, so I went back and nerfed the other versions of Merry and Pippin a bit to make them acceptable as uncommons.

for all the good thoughts, my friend.

[FM]

I have a bone to pick, you DO realize that Uruk card that settles skirmishes by vitality WOULD count both, right?

[DáinIronfoot]

I have a bone to pick, you DO realize that Uruk card that settles skirmishes by vitality WOULD count both, right?

Now you're just TRYING to cheese me off.

[FM]

Well, I AM a lawyer, I can't have my point made moot that easily, now can I?

[DáinIronfoot]

I was kind of hoping for a review from someone who either has a juicy brain or gets ill around palantirs....

Hopefully one of those will happen by this afternoon, but if not, I have the next cards queued and ready to roll then.

[Elf_Lvr]

Someone who... loves elves, perhaps?

•Merry & •Pippin, Little Shirelings
Companions • Hobbits
Strength: 6
Vitality: 4
Signet: Frodo
Each hunter is strength +1.
The twilight cost of each pipeweed and stealth card is -1.
Skirmish: Exert Merry & Pippin to make each Ent and Tree strength +1 until the regroup phase.
"‘Our friends are out there. They need our help. They cannot fight this war on their own.'"

I like it. However... I think you could limit it to just Free Peoples hunters. Having Merry and Pip in one card has its advantages, sure... but it has drawbacks (esp. when it comes to cards that require exertions), so I don't think they need any sort of downside.

[DáinIronfoot]

Very well, the people have spoken. Merry & Pippin will only affect FP hunters. I'll tweak that in just a sec.

First, let's keep things moving with some good ol' pipeweed. Enjoy!

•Merry's Pipe
Possession • Pipe
Bearer must be Merry.
When you play Merry's Pipe from hand, you may play a pipeweed from your draw deck.
Fellowship: Discard a pipeweed to heal a Hobbit and remove a threat.
"...the other, with crossed legs and arms behind his head, leaned back against a broken rock and sent from his mouth long wisps and little rings of thin blue smoke."

Between Decipher's set and my own, so far Frodo, Sam, Gandalf, Aragorn, Gimli, Thorin, and even Saruman (a FP version) have their own pipes. Yes, while Merry and Pippin have always been able to make use of pipes like Bilbo's Pipe or The Gaffer's Pipe, they've never had their own. Until now, of course.

Merry's Pipe does something certain versions of Merry (Merry RS and Merry TTO from Decipher's sets, Merry, YaB from this very set) already do: work with threats. I figured it made sense to do a little threat removal with pipeweed, since the old-school pipes already do about everything else and even Big D recognized the potential of trying the two together (Hornblower Leaf).

Notice that like the other pipes in my sets so far, this does not refer to a pipeweed possession, but ANY old pipeweed. So you can potentially even use this with the newer pipeweed conditons Decipher played around with in their later sets.

•Pippin's Pipe
Possession • Pipe
Bearer must be Pippin.
When you play Pippin's Pipe from hand, you may play another pipe from your draw deck.
Fellowship: Discard a pipeweed and spot X pipes to heal an unbound Hobbit companion X times.
"‘I keep a treasure or two near my skin, as precious as Rings to me. Here's one: my old wooden pipe.'"

Not as strongly themed here, since Pippin doesn't have multiple versions that work with threats or anything. He DOES tend to work with burdens (HoSI, WfR, ItBoH), but that's already covered so well by other pipes that I didn't want to mess with that here. So mass healing instead gets the call.

UPDATE: I have added additional text to each pipe that lets you pull extra stuff when you play them. The "from hand" may seem unnecessary, but you'll see in a near-future update that it is actually very important.

I personally love the flavor of playing an extra pipe when you play Pippin's Pipe, since in the story Pippin actually pulls out TWO pipes from his pockets: one for himself and one for Gimli, who lost his pipe somewhere in Moria. Anyway, obviously the best order is to play Pippin's Pipe, pull Merry's Pipe, and then pull a pipeweed. It's a one-time deal, but it makes for a sweet combo that hopefully encourages using them (and their owners) together.

Imported Pipe-weed
Possession • Support Area
Pipeweed.
When you play this possession, you may spot 2 Hobbits or a tale to reveal the top X cards of your draw deck, where X is the current region number. Replace those cards in any order.
"‘How it came here, I can't imagine....I never knew that it went so far abroad. But it comes in handy now?'"

This set's simple pipeweed, in the same vein as oldies like Longbottom Leaf and Old Toby. Not much else to say, so....

•Hornblower Barrel
Possession • Support Area
Pipeweed. When you play this possession, you may draw a card for each unbound Hobbit you can spot (limit 3).
Regroup: Place this possession beneath your draw deck to heal each character bearing a pipe.
"‘There was this large barrel, full of pipeweed....'"

Kind of a super-pipeweed, looking much more like the pipeweed conditions than the pipeweed possessions. Chances are you won't discard this as the cost of a pipe's ability unless you're desperate, but that's okay because it works fine with pipes in another way with that regroup ability. And the "when you play" ability pairs beautifully with Imported Pipe-weed, don't you think?

[Thranduil]

•Merry's Pipe
Possession • Pipe
Bearer must be Merry.
Fellowship: Discard a pipeweed to heal a Hobbit and remove a threat.
"...the other, with crossed legs and arms behind his head, leaned back against a broken rock and sent from his mouth long wisps and little rings of thin blue smoke."

I think it's a shame that this one doesn't count the number of pipes. I would make it remove X threats, which given Gandalf's Pipe does the same with burdens, looks fine to me.

•Pippin's Pipe
Possession • Pipe
Bearer must be Pippin.
Fellowship: Discard a pipeweed and spot X pipes to heal an unbound Hobbit companion X times.
"‘I keep a treasure or two near my skin, as precious as Rings to me. Here's one: my old wooden pipe.'"

Yeah it's fair enough. I'd probably play this just for another pipe.

Imported Pipe-weed
Possession • Support Area
Pipeweed.
When you play this possession, you may spot 2 Hobbits or a tale to reveal the top X cards of your draw deck, where X is the current region number. Replace those cards in any order.
"‘How it came here, I can't imagine....I never knew that it went so far abroad. But it comes in handy now?'"

I like this, but there's no reason it can't be "look at" instead of reveal. I don't think you need the spotting requirement, but I can imagine spotting 2 Hobbits for flavour reasons.

Hornblower Barrel
Possession • Support Area
Pipeweed. When you play this possession, you may draw a card for each unbound Hobbit you can spot (limit 3).
Regroup: Place this possession beneath your draw deck to heal each character bearing a pipe.
"‘There was this large barrel, full of pipeweed....'"

Hmm... Love the regroup ability (though it does strike me as odd that, unlike every other pipeweed, it doesn't need discarding), but not convinced by the CIP ability: seems just very good and off-culture.

Thranduil

[FM]

I don't think the card-drawing is OP, and surely not out of flavor, in the very first set, it WAS common to see abuse in the way of Hobbit Party Guest and a bunch of allies to draw nearly your whole deck.

[DáinIronfoot]

•Merry's Pipe
Possession • Pipe
Bearer must be Merry.
Fellowship: Discard a pipeweed to heal a Hobbit and remove a threat.
"...the other, with crossed legs and arms behind his head, leaned back against a broken rock and sent from his mouth long wisps and little rings of thin blue smoke."

I think it's a shame that this one doesn't count the number of pipes. I would make it remove X threats, which given Gandalf's Pipe does the same with burdens, looks fine to me.

Except that one of the earlier pipes I made did just that: spot X pipes to remove X threats. I certainly COULD do that again here, but....

I have an idea for adding a little something that might make this better. Check the original post again in a minute....

Hornblower Barrel
Possession • Support Area
Pipeweed. When you play this possession, you may draw a card for each unbound Hobbit you can spot (limit 3).
Regroup: Place this possession beneath your draw deck to heal each character bearing a pipe.
"‘There was this large barrel, full of pipeweed....'"

Hmm... Love the regroup ability (though it does strike me as odd that, unlike every other pipeweed, it doesn't need discarding), but not convinced by the CIP ability: seems just very good and off-culture.

I opted to go with placing under the deck rather than discarding because it creates a fun cycle with a couple other cards from this and the last set (including another pipeweed from The Road Ahead) that retrieve cards from the bottom of your deck. As for the card drawing, keep in mind that card drawing and discarding is THE theme of the old-school pipeweeds. I was basically just making this a super-Old Toby and adding a little cultural enforcement at the same time. Like FM, I think it's balanced, especially since you can grab at most three cards at a time. If you would prefer, though, I might be able to make it a 'discard X to draw X' ability instead....

Any other comments? Anyone?

[lem0nhead]

•Merry's Pipe
Possession • Pipe
Bearer must be Merry.
Fellowship: Discard a pipeweed to heal a Hobbit and remove a threat.
"...the other, with crossed legs and arms behind his head, leaned back against a broken rock and sent from his mouth long wisps and little rings of thin blue smoke."

Quite a good effect compared to some of the other pipes. Questionable power here but probably ok.

•Pippin's Pipe
Possession • Pipe
Bearer must be Pippin.
Fellowship: Discard a pipeweed and spot X pipes to heal an unbound Hobbit companion X times.
"‘I keep a treasure or two near my skin, as precious as Rings to me. Here's one: my old wooden pipe.'"

Ditto point above. This has some major MAJOR healing potential.

Imported Pipe-weed
Possession • Support Area
Pipeweed.
When you play this possession, you may spot 2 Hobbits or a tale to reveal the top X cards of your draw deck, where X is the current region number. Replace those cards in any order.
"‘How it came here, I can't imagine....I never knew that it went so far abroad. But it comes in handy now?'"

Yeah thats fine, odd where you determine X from but whatever.

Hornblower Barrel
Possession • Support Area
Pipeweed. When you play this possession, you may draw a card for each unbound Hobbit you can spot (limit 3).
Regroup: Place this possession beneath your draw deck to heal each character bearing a pipe.
"‘There was this large barrel, full of pipeweed....'"

Unique it or you could build them up and have some major healing, or just play a couple and draw 4 cards (rule of 4).

[DáinIronfoot]

I tweaked the two pipes a bit to give them a little more oomph. This should make Thran in particular happy.

EDIT: Gack! lem0n, you snuck up on me!

I disagree about the pipes being OP. Look at the originals. Neither have healing potential any higher than Aragorn's Pipe or Frodo's Pipe, in my opinion. If anything, I agree with Thran...they needed a little something extra to put them over the top.

I'll make the Barrel unique, though. I had begun to strongly consider doing that anyway, especially since other cards, as I mentioned, can pull it back from under your deck. I think I'll reduce the cost then, too.

So, you may want to re-review if you have a second, Mr. Juicy Fruit.