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Author Topic: Pure Gollum  (Read 10787 times)

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November 27, 2009, 10:52:08 PM
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Gwaihir

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Pure Gollum
« on: November 27, 2009, 10:52:08 PM »
When I last played, about 4 years ago, one deck I enjoyed was a pure [Gollum] deck.  I don't remember what it looked like then, but I thought I would reconstruct it.  Tell me what you think.

Ringbearer
Smeagol Bearer of Great Secrets
The One Ring Answer to All Riddles

Free Cards
4 Never
4 Nasty
4 Don't Look At Them
4 Not Listening
4 Follow Smeagol
4 Still Far Ahead
4 Poor Wretch
4 Clever Hobbits
3 Sneaking

Shadow Cards

Gollum Plotting Deceiver*
Gollum Vile Creature
Gollum Mad Thing
Gollum Stinker
4 Captured by the Ring
4 We Must Have It
4 Slippery As Fishes
4 Nasty Foul Hobbitses
3 Hobbitses Are Dead
2 Unabated In Malice
2 Fat One Wants It
2 Heavy Burden
2 They Stole It
2 Master Broke His Promise
1 Final Strike
1 Let Her Deal With Them

Sites

Isengard Ruined
King's Tent
The Dimholt
Anduin Banks
City Gates
Minas Tirith First Circle
Ruined Capitol
Northern Ithilien
Dagorlad

The way I try to win with this deck is to race to the end.  Limiting the available [X] lets me move fast and leads to a clogged opposing player hand.  Smeagol can be very strong with his various boosters, but generally won't need it for a while since there will be so little twilight for the shadow to use against him.

The shadow side is mostly a speed bump, though it can cause some trouble.  When I played before I used Shelob, but I thought that the extra minion might make it easier for the other player to unclog his hand so I dropped her.  This also let me focus more exclusively on Gollum and trying to be sure he can make trouble.  Also, by dropping Shelob I face less risk of my hand getting clogged if there isn't enough twilight to play her.  I should be able to play Gollum just about any time.

I have a free card and a shadow card to help me cycle my hand:  Don't Look at Them and They Stole It.

I use four versions of Gollum so that I can pick the one that will be most useful at any given moment.  Captured By the Ring, We Must Have It, Final Strike and Northern Ithilien all let me play whichever one I want, so I may as well have options.

When I played before, I generally was able to stay in front the whole game.  Sites 8 and 9 were tough though.  The other player would finally have enough [X] to create some hassles.  I may not have had as many healing cards then so this may work better.

Anyway, comments and critiques are welcome.  What do you think?

*Changes from original.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 10:39:18 AM by Gwaihir »

November 28, 2009, 08:54:44 AM
Reply #1

Cw0rk

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Re: Pure Gollum
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2009, 08:54:44 AM »
You cannot cancel the Ring-Bearer skirmish... so Sneaking won't work. Power according to his stature could be a card to consider. You could also put Pippin, HoSI in your starting fellowship to remove a burden. Mmm... but if you want to only use Gollum cards you can't do that.

I also tend to prefer Wounding Gollum... you could use Promise Keeping which is devastating when combined to They stole it. Is it really worth it to use 4 Slippery as fishes? I personally like Shelob, but if you don't like to use her, it's your choice.





November 28, 2009, 09:24:18 AM
Reply #2

Gwaihir

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Re: Pure Gollum
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2009, 09:24:18 AM »
Yeah, sneaking is just there for healing.  Some other cards can't be used for their text, and are just extra contidions to count for Smeagol boosting.

November 28, 2009, 10:37:43 AM
Reply #3

Gwaihir

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Re: Pure Gollum
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2009, 10:37:43 AM »
Good call.  Don't need Old Villain because I have other cycling cards.  That is an easy replacement.  Why didn't I do that in the first place. :-k

clockwork--
Promise Keeping does look good.  May have to find a way to work it in.  Maybe I don't need so many slippery.  I just like the though of Gollum being S13 before pumping with other cards.  Could drop one or two to bring in Promise Keeping.

I did use Shelob in this deck before.  Just not sure she helps enough to be useful. :-S
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 10:44:16 AM by Gwaihir »

November 28, 2009, 10:47:44 AM
Reply #4

ket_the_jet

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Re: Pure Gollum
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2009, 10:47:44 AM »
I don't think Slippery As Fishes is necessary at all. I used four copies in a Ninja Gollum deck, then realized you didn't need it if you played They Stole It and Promise Keeping.
-wtk

November 28, 2009, 12:16:50 PM
Reply #5

Cw0rk

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Re: Pure Gollum
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2009, 12:16:50 PM »
Slippery as fishes is nice if you have many river, mountains and underground sites. However the movie block sitepath doesn't contain that many.

Additional question:
Do you want to only use [Gollum] culture cards to keep it pure? Or can we suggest cards from other cultures?

November 28, 2009, 12:36:06 PM
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Gwaihir

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Re: Pure Gollum
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2009, 12:36:06 PM »
Just [Gollum] cards, nothing else to keep a pure theme.

November 28, 2009, 01:30:59 PM
Reply #7

ket_the_jet

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Re: Pure Gollum
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2009, 01:30:59 PM »
Master Broke His Promise: Worst card of all time.

Imagine this...
They Stole It...wound.
Promise Keeping...exert a companion.
You're A Liar and a Thief...wound that companion...
Promise Keeping...exert a companion...
Threats trigger...
Promise Keeping...exert a companion per threat.

Using Shelob, Paralyzer of Durin is a nice way to make sure that Gollum gets assigned to a smaller companion. Also, with So Polite twilight, burdens, and threats, a copy or two of Sauron, the Lord of the Rings is never a bad idea, even if it is off of your [Gollum]-only deck.

Ninja [Gollum] is #$&*@! mean!
-wtk
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 02:02:06 PM by ket_the_jet »

November 28, 2009, 06:33:19 PM
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Gwaihir

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Re: Pure Gollum
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2009, 06:33:19 PM »
You're right about master.  Can't quite remember what it is doing there?

November 28, 2009, 07:17:18 PM
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Alazzar

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Re: Pure Gollum
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2009, 07:17:18 PM »
This is more of a ruling point than a deckbuilding point, but... I'm fairly certain that you can't use Sneaking to heal UNLESS you don't meet the "cancel skirmish" requirement.  Once again, I'm not positive (and I can't find anything definitive in the comprehensive rulebook), but I think that when you have parenthetical things like that that change the effect of a card, you don't get to choose -- you do whichever one is possible.  i.e., the parenthetical text will actually override the initial text, often against the player's will.

For example, an Isengard Smith is capable of discarding Anduril, because it's a weapon (even though it's an artifact).  However, if you can spot 5 companions, his text changes, and he now discards all POSSESSIONS, meaning Anduril would be beyond his reach.  I'm fairly certain you don't have the option of saying, "Well, I'm just not going to spot the 5 companions," because his text says "(... if you CAN spot 5 companions)."  Not "(... if you CHOOSE to spot 5 companions)."

I know this isn't by any means official, but the Lord of the Rings Online game plays cards that way.  In fact, if you play Secret Sentinels and there's an Orc out, you HAVE to discard two conditions, even if one of them is your own.

But, once again, I couldn't find anything in the comprehensive rulebook about it.  But if things DO go this way, then you'd only be able to heal Smeagol if he has less vitality than the minions he's skirmishing.  If he had MORE vitality, it would trigger the "cancel skirmish" effect, which obviously doesn't work because he's the Ring-bearer.

Anyway... does anyone have an official ruling on this?  I'll keep scouring the rulebook, but I don't have high hopes of finding anything conclusive.  =P

November 28, 2009, 07:48:29 PM
Reply #10

TheJord

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Re: Pure Gollum
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2009, 07:48:29 PM »
There is someting in the CRD about this, you are correct
"The rule of Gondor is mine!"

November 30, 2009, 08:48:51 PM
Reply #11

Kralik

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Re: Pure Gollum
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2009, 08:48:51 PM »
Alazzar, I also think you are correct, but the Secret Sentinels line... yikes! I never realized that. Yet in many cases when I am playing a condition-less Shadow in FotR, I've seen opponents play it "to burn." Now I can burn them back by informing them to pick one of their own conditions to discard! :twisted: ;)

November 30, 2009, 10:01:19 PM
Reply #12

Gwaihir

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Re: Pure Gollum
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2009, 10:01:19 PM »
Just played a game with the deck and wow does it need shelob.  Archery ripped poor gollum to shreds.  There was no way I could slow the other player.

December 01, 2009, 12:59:51 AM
Reply #13

Gil-Estel

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Re: Pure Gollum
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2009, 12:59:51 AM »
Sweeter Meats is wound prevention, but indeed, her Ladyship is sooo good. Allthough I won a game yesterday with Gollum as the only minion, mhuahahaha. Sorry King, my draws were awesome.
..."Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill"...

December 02, 2009, 07:29:28 AM
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Elessar's Socks

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Re: Pure Gollum
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2009, 07:29:28 AM »
She gets Gollum past Faramir SoD, and one less companion to deal with means Gollum can skirmish the RB early. :up:

I think a wounding build on the Shadow end would be stronger, too, if you don't mind which pure [Gollum] to run. In addition to the burden package (except possibly Stinker), IMO Hobbitses Are Dead, Master Broke His Promise, and Let Her Deal With Them can be dropped... maybe Slippery As Fishes as well.

Then--keeping with pure [Gollum]--I'd add Shelob HL, Web, Hidden Even From Her, Promise Keeping, and YaLaaT.

December 02, 2009, 09:40:40 AM
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Alazzar

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Re: Pure Gollum
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2009, 09:40:40 AM »
Alazzar, I also think you are correct, but the Secret Sentinels line... yikes! I never realized that. Yet in many cases when I am playing a condition-less Shadow in FotR, I've seen opponents play it "to burn." Now I can burn them back by informing them to pick one of their own conditions to discard! :twisted: ;)

Yeah, watch for that ANY time someone plays something for no effect -- they might have to discard one of their own cards!  Roll of Thunder gets away with it because it specifies "Shadow" possession or artifact (so it can be played without having to discard one of your own cards), but I'm sure there are plenty of other cards that require a discard to be made.  Company of Archers, for example.

(Man, those elves just love discarding their own crap!)

December 11, 2009, 05:37:00 PM
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Gwaihir

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Re: Pure Gollum
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2009, 05:37:00 PM »
Well, I've played some games with the deck and have learned some things.

One is that I need to slow down.  I think when I played this deck idea before it was in shadows and I had more control over sites so could move faster without too much trouble.  Moving fast in movies seems to be a bad idea.

Another is that It's Mine can be an awesome card to go along with They Stole It and Promise Keeping.  In this deck, it is a guarantee that you get to keep the cards you draw.  In my last game, I was getting kills all over the place with that combo.  I played Gollum and used It's Mine to draw three cards.  I would have 10 cards in hand if I played nothing else.  That is enough to cause three wounds with They Stole It.  Each wound is accompanied by an exertion thanks to Promise Keeping so a total of six wounds is at least possible.  And that is if you don't have a You're a Liar and a Thief in your hand.  If Shelob is on a web she can come out too without costing one of the cards in your hand.

I feel sort of dumb because I kind of stumbled on this combo in the game and did not use it as well as I could have.  I ended up wasting a lot of threats which had been added thanks to Captured by the Ring and Fat One Wants It.  I was using Gollum Vile Creature and trying to win with strength, but Gollum Stinker probably would have been better.  Kill with They Stole It, add a burden then in regroup use Heavy Burden to add another burden.  It is quite possible to kill one companion, exhaust another and add 2 burdens in one turn.

With all that discarding I needed to make the deck a lot bigger so it is around 80 now and in the last game I had less than 10 cards left at the end.  Smeagul only had one fight the whole game so I did't do much discarding on the free people's side of the game or I may have run out of cards even as big as the deck was.

Shelob Her Ladyship looks like she is probably better than the other two as Ellesar has pointed out above.  I like that I can pull webs with the one shelob letting me get through the deck faster, but the ability to take the best fighter out of the game would have definately helped.

I think there are other things I wanted to comment on, but I don't remember them now.  I'm going to revise the deck a bit to take better advantage of It's Mine and post the upgraded deck when I do.

December 11, 2009, 06:48:19 PM
Reply #17

sharkey

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Re: Pure Gollum
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2009, 06:48:19 PM »
Problem with this deck: archery. Look out for that, one archer minion a turn for 3 turns is an exhaustion... 2-4 is deady! You may even want to switch out your ring so you can deal with that by adding burdens instead.

December 11, 2009, 09:15:41 PM
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Gwaihir

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Re: Pure Gollum
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2009, 09:15:41 PM »
Yes archery is a real big problem.  An archer per turn isn't too bad because of cards like Sneaking and Not Listening.  It is when there are 5+ shots per turn that I really get in trouble.  I had to change rings because Answer to all Riddles can't be used outside of the skirmish phase so if there are 6 or more arrows, it is a kill and nothing can be done about it.  I switched to ToR SaWtC to help with that.

There really isn't much more that can be done with the deck build (given the self-imposed requirment to use nothing but [gollum] cards) to protect against archery.

Here is the current form of the list:
The One Ring, Such a Weight to Carry
4x Smeagol Bearer of Great Secrets
4x Clever Hobbits
4x Don't Look at Them
4x Follow Smeagol
4x Nasty
4x Never
4x Not Listening
4x Poor Wretch
4x Sneaking
4x Still Far Ahead
4x Where Shall We Go

 Shadow
2x A Dark Shape Sprang
4x Captured by the Ring
1x Evil Smelling Fens
2x Heavy Burden
1x Hidden Even From Her
3x It's Mine
2x So Polite
2x Sweater Meats
4x They Stole It
4x Web
4x You're a Liar and a Thief
3x Fat One Wants It
3x Gollum Stinker
1x Gollum Vile Creature
3x Promise Keeping
4x Shelob Her Ladyship

December 11, 2009, 10:00:50 PM
Reply #19

Cw0rk

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Re: Pure Gollum
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2009, 10:00:50 PM »
I would remove 1 Web to add 1 Promise Keeping as its a very important card and conditions are often discarded. You can remove 2 Gollum Stinker for 2 We must have it. Hidden Even From Her can be quite good, you could try to add another one.

On the FP side, its a very clever idea to use Smeagol x4. Nice job!