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March 15, 2010, 10:29:46 AM
Reply #75

Thranduil

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Re: Reflections II - Army of the Dead
« Reply #75 on: March 15, 2010, 10:29:46 AM »
I realised why I was failing with Halbarad - because I was stepping on the twins' toes. I had to ask then question: What can [Elven] bring to the Grey Company? The answer is healing and some threat removal. Then the answer to the question about [Gondor], you'll see below:

[3]Halbarad, Of the Grey Company [Gondor]
Companion • Man
Str: 7
Vit: 3
Res: 6
Ranger.
Maneuver: Exert Halbarad and another companion, and spot a minion to choose one: wound that minion; or discard a follower borne that minion.
R2 R 31

So the main point is maneuver wounding which is something [Gondor] is quite good at (Defend it and Hope, No Travelers in this Land etc.) and it helps exert your enduring guys. What do you think about a small cost reduction? Maybe -1 for an exhausted companion, or a unique ranger, or something?

It also contains a little spoiler for some things that may be coming. There will not be many Shadow followers, I think a maximum of 1 in certain cultures, and that's one of the reasons for mass errata (for example, the Horns and the Librarian would be changed to say "Discard your follower..." which is clearly what they should have always said).
« Last Edit: March 16, 2010, 04:26:46 AM by Thranduil »

March 15, 2010, 12:17:07 PM
Reply #76

ket_the_jet

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Re: Reflections II - Army of the Dead
« Reply #76 on: March 15, 2010, 12:17:07 PM »
I think that guy fits into the [Gondor] Wraiths pretty well. I don't mind him costing three and not having a cost-reducer. I think that fewer companions in general should have cost-reducers.
-wtk

March 15, 2010, 04:36:16 PM
Reply #77

Cw0rk

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Re: Reflections II - Army of the Dead
« Reply #77 on: March 15, 2010, 04:36:16 PM »
'Exert 2 companions' isn't enough for me. I'd like if you could specify the race or the culture of the companions you can or cannot exert. Maneuver wounding as always been an extremely powerful ability.

March 15, 2010, 04:38:21 PM
Reply #78

legolas3333

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Re: Reflections II - Army of the Dead
« Reply #78 on: March 15, 2010, 04:38:21 PM »
exert halbarad and another companion would work better i think
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March 18, 2010, 11:09:39 AM
Reply #79

Thranduil

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Re: Reflections II - Army of the Dead
« Reply #79 on: March 18, 2010, 11:09:39 AM »
Okay so that's the Army of the Dead finished with. But to couple it, we have to also see their enemies:

[3] The Black Fleet [Men]
Possession • Support Area
Engine.
When you play this possession, you may exert any number of [Men] minions to add that number of [Men] tokens here.
Shadow: Remove X tokens from here to play a [Men] minion with twilight cost X from your discard pile.
R2 R+ 38

So this is a rejigged [Men] version of the old [Raider] ships, mainly a riff off Black Sails of Umbar.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 12:14:34 PM by Thranduil »

March 18, 2010, 11:13:14 AM
Reply #80

ket_the_jet

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Re: Reflections II - Army of the Dead
« Reply #80 on: March 18, 2010, 11:13:14 AM »
[3] Black Ships of the South [Men]
Possession • Support Area
Engine.
When you play this possession, you may exert any number of [Men] minions to add that number of [Men] tokens here.
Shadow: Remove X tokens from here to play a [Men] minion with twilight cost X or less from your discard pile.
R2 R+ 38

Did any of the old ships use the word "vessel?" What about "frigate?" Those  are the only words that come to mind. The card itself seems pretty balanced. I am not specifically familiar with any possible enduring [Men] minions, but I know that enduring is a key to this set here.

By the way, I thought my best idea for the [Elven] Brothers was here. What are your thoughts on that?
-wtk

March 18, 2010, 11:16:53 AM
Reply #81

Sam, Great Elf Warrior

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Re: Reflections II - Army of the Dead
« Reply #81 on: March 18, 2010, 11:16:53 AM »
Depending on whether you're making more than one ship, you could title it either "Corsair Transport" (if this is one of many ships) or "Black Fleet" (if this is the only [men] ship).

Also you can probably remove "or less" from the ability, since there's nothing requiring players to remove a certain number of tokens. If there are 3 tokens on there, and I only want to play a 2-cost minion, I'll just remove 2 tokens.

March 18, 2010, 11:57:53 AM
Reply #82

Cw0rk

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Re: Reflections II - Army of the Dead
« Reply #82 on: March 18, 2010, 11:57:53 AM »
I have a feeling [3] might be a bit too much. This card is really weak compared to Black Sails of Umbar. It doesn't reduce the cost the of minion you play from your discard pile and requires you to exert plenty of minions to add tokens. It's easier to play a minion using Foul Things than with this DC you made. I would reduce the cost to [2].

March 18, 2010, 12:13:47 PM
Reply #83

Thranduil

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Re: Reflections II - Army of the Dead
« Reply #83 on: March 18, 2010, 12:13:47 PM »
By the way, I thought my best idea for the [Elven] Brothers was here. What are your thoughts on that?
I thought the idea was great and I would strongly consider using it in a different set, but not in this one - it doesn't fit well enough within the the set's themes. Why don't you use it for something else?

Also you can probably remove "or less" from the ability, since there's nothing requiring players to remove a certain number of tokens. If there are 3 tokens on there, and I only want to play a 2-cost minion, I'll just remove 2 tokens.
Hmmm... Fair point. I can't quite remember why that was there in the first place.

I have a feeling [3] might be a bit too much. This card is really weak compared to Black Sails of Umbar. It doesn't reduce the cost the of minion you play from your discard pile and requires you to exert plenty of minions to add tokens. It's easier to play a minion using Foul Things than with this DC you made. I would reduce the cost to [2].
Well, it's worse than Foul Things because the [Moria] culture is much better at recursion than [Men]. On the other hand it is repeatable and there's a fair amount of [Men] token reinforcement now (Pirate Cutthroat, Caravan from the South, Corsair Grappling Hook etc.), let alone what's coming in this set. But a good point, and very much worth bearing in mind.

Thranduil

March 18, 2010, 05:46:50 PM
Reply #84

Not a Zombie

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Re: Reflections II - Army of the Dead
« Reply #84 on: March 18, 2010, 05:46:50 PM »
Maybe you could do something like this:

[3] The Black Fleet [Men]
Possession • Support Area
Engine.
When you play this possession, you may exert any number of [Men] minions to add that number of [Men] tokens here.
Shadow: Remove X [Men] tokens from here to play a [Men] minion with twilight cost X from your discard pile. You may remove Y additional tokens to reduce that minions twilight cost by Y.
R2 R+ 38

I know Y has never been used before, so this probably wouldn't work, but you could do something similar. 
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March 18, 2010, 08:10:29 PM
Reply #85

Sam, Great Elf Warrior

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Re: Reflections II - Army of the Dead
« Reply #85 on: March 18, 2010, 08:10:29 PM »
Maybe to get rid of the "Y", make the ability:
Shadow: Remove X [men] tokens from here to play a [men] minion of twilight cost X from your discard pile; you may remove up to X additional [men] tokens from here to make that minion's twilight cost -1 for each token removed in this way.

March 19, 2010, 04:46:46 AM
Reply #86

Thranduil

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Re: Reflections II - Army of the Dead
« Reply #86 on: March 19, 2010, 04:46:46 AM »
Maybe you could do something like this:

[3] The Black Fleet [Men]
Possession • Support Area
Engine.
When you play this possession, you may exert any number of [Men] minions to add that number of [Men] tokens here.
Shadow: Remove X [Men] tokens from here to play a [Men] minion with twilight cost X from your discard pile. You may remove Y additional tokens to reduce that minions twilight cost by Y.
R2 R+ 38

I know Y has never been used before, so this probably wouldn't work, but you could do something similar. 
I don't love it, but it is something which has been done in card games before. Do you think the twilight reduction is necessary to make the card worth while? If so, then I'll let it give toil 1 to the minion you get back.

Thranduil

March 19, 2010, 09:48:05 AM
Reply #87

Thranduil

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Re: Reflections II - Army of the Dead
« Reply #87 on: March 19, 2010, 09:48:05 AM »
While we think about the Black Fleet, here are 2 corsairs as I finalise the R+ corsair for the next post:

The first one is a semi-reprint.

[2] Corsair Raider [Men]
Minion • Man
Str: 6
Vit: 3
Sit: 6
When you play this minion, you may discard a possession to reinforce 2 [Men] tokens.
R2 R 41

And the 2nd is a utility card, emphasising one of the [Men] culture's strengths - fetching.

[4] Corsair Captain [Men]
Minion • Man
Str: 10
Vit: 3
Sit: 6
When you play this minion, you may exert it to play a [Men] condition or [Men] possession from your draw deck. Then you may reinforce a [Men] token.
R2 R 39

March 19, 2010, 09:53:59 AM
Reply #88

Cw0rk

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Re: Reflections II - Army of the Dead
« Reply #88 on: March 19, 2010, 09:53:59 AM »
These two minions would be fine in any regular set. However, from my point of view, a 'Reflections' set shouldn't include such normal minions. The first Reflections set had Sauron, Lord of the Rings and Host of Moria. Reprints or semi-reprints shouldn't be in a Reflections set.

March 19, 2010, 09:57:32 AM
Reply #89

Thranduil

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Re: Reflections II - Army of the Dead
« Reply #89 on: March 19, 2010, 09:57:32 AM »
These two minions would be fine in any regular set. However, from my point of view, a 'Reflections' set shouldn't include such normal minions. The first Reflections set had Sauron, Lord of the Rings and Host of Moria. Reprints or semi-reprints shouldn't be in a Reflections set.
Interesting point. I think you can make the argument for the Corsairs and the Army of the Dead because they appeared in 2 sets and then never really again, so it really is a "Reflection" to go back to see them again in a new light. Very good point - anyone else have thoughts about this?

I'd also want to point out that I'm planning a bigger set than Reflections I (it's going to be 81 cards) - I'm not sure if that's a good justification, it's just a fact!

Maybe I will try to think some more off-the-wall ideas to put in... I already stole one of your ideas from your Sanctuary thread for a kickass card! ;)

Thranduil