TLHH DC Project: The Great Eye - Concepts & Discussion

[chompers]

It could also be:

Affinity: While you can spot three this character becomes .

This should replace the existing culture (a ruling might be needed so that they don't end up with both) and as far as strategies goes it will be harder to keep it triggered because once there are less than 3 in play the character reverts back to other culture. This might work better with Free Peoples Characters.

Eg. An Aragorn that says:
Affinity: While you can spot 3 companions this companion becomes

It might work better for minions if they say:
Affinity: While you can spot three minions this companion becomes until end of turn.

I have no issue with it being a big set thereby creating a new format or block. How likely is it to design this set to do these three things:
1) Work as a stand alone expansion (so all cards will need to work together to complete finished fellowships and finished minion decks)
2) Enhance movie block
3) Enhance standard

I like what is going on with the Affinity keyword, I also like wha is happening with gaining Signets whgilst retaining resistance. All  from me.

[Sam, Great Elf Warrior]

Yeah, IMO, we might want to limit it to [men]/ and, to a lesser degree, / (although already has post-movie cards) and maybe / , / , and [men]/ (although we already have normal and cards in this set).

IMO, we don't need to do [men]/ or / because many of the cards use keywords and many of the cards refer simply to "Uruk-hai."

But I think Free Peoples' culture switching is probably too risky unless it's very limited.


As far as size goes, I think we'd need a big set to do everything we're trying to do here.

[chompers]

But I think Free Peoples' culture switching is probably too risky unless it's very limited.

* Is it risky because they can work with the cards from two cultures at different times?
* Or is it more of a risk if they can use the cards of two cultures at the same time?

If the answer is the first one - switching cultures is a bad idea. If the answer is two - this is less risky because you can design cards that switch cultures rather than gain a culture.

I guess in the end you need to ask what is gained from doing so. Perhaps it is more trouble than it is worth.

[Thranduil]

I don't think cards having 2 cultures is in any way an issue - not mechanically nor for balance. Broken combos? I'm not sure there are any. Better deck-building options? Sure as anything it gives you that.

There are several ways I've seen this done in the past:

1) Just put the cultures on the top of the card. Literally it would be , and the card background theoretically would be split between them.

2) Do culture-shifting rather than dual cards. So things like Gimli, Merry etc. Aragorn, DoR is obviously the prime example of this.

3) The keyword alliance. This was used by menace64 a while back. Alliance means you can replace any culture symbol in the text of this card with at any time. So you might have a card that says:

Pump
Event • Skirmish
Alliance:
Make a minion strength +2. If you can spot a condition, draw a card.

4) Culture keywords, which was my idea when you couldn't change the templating. Basically you might have an Orc that has in his keyword box: Damage +1. . This means that he is also an minion and it functions exactly like a normal keyword.


Also like to share a quick idea I had about signets. Why couldn't you conceptually use the pictures of the signet, or the character's black and white faces, when you mention them in card texts? Horn of the Mark would become "Bearer gains [Théoden]."
This also allows you do a template like:

Guard of Meduseld
Companion • Man
Str: 6
Vit: 3
Res: 6
Valiant.
[Théoden].

Imagine a card with all three stats and then a big Théoden signet over his text box? See what I mean?




All that said, we're going to have to make some choices about what can fit in this set and what can't. I'm not sure there's room for both revamping signets and dual culture cards, as well as dealing with the themes that the set title gives us (like corruption, search/stealth, deck/hand manipulation).



But, taking a lesson from MTG, when they introduce a new concept, they often introduce only a small amount of it at first. Then if it turns out to be popular and interesting, they'll bring it back in a big way later. Main case study being hybrid colour cards that began with only a few cards in Ravnica block, then a whole hybrid mini-block with Shadowmoor/Eventide.

So, what we could do is do sprinklings of signet/cultural stuff rather than making a huge deal out of it.

Thranduil

[Sam, Great Elf Warrior]

3) The keyword alliance. This was used by menace64 a while back. Alliance means you can replace any culture symbol in the text of this card with at any time. So you might have a card that says:

Pump
Event • Skirmish
Alliance:
Make a minion strength +2.

It should probably be "any culture symbol of this card's culture"; otherwise, you'll have issues if you ever want to make card that spots different cultures (like Living Off Rock or even Stampeded, or even Aragorn, DoFP). Of course, this still wouldn't help with cards that affect cards of a certain culture (e.g. your pump couldn't be pulled by a card that took an event into hand) and is probably best paired with idea 1 or 4 rather than as an alternative to it (3 diversifies the culture of the things referenced in the card's game text, 1/4 diversifies the culture of the card itself).

Also, would alliance work with toil? For example, could Sauron, DLoM be written "Damage +1. Fierce. Alliance: [gollum] [men] Sauron is Toil X, where X is the current region number."?

Good idea about signets by the way.

[Thranduil]

3) The keyword alliance. This was used by menace64 a while back. Alliance means you can replace any culture symbol in the text of this card with at any time. So you might have a card that says:

Pump
Event • Skirmish
Alliance:
Make a minion strength +2.

It should probably be "any culture symbol of this card's culture"; otherwise, you'll have issues if you ever want to make card that spots different cultures (like Living Off Rock or even Stampeded, or even Aragorn, DoFP). Of course, this still wouldn't help with cards that affect cards of a certain culture (e.g. your pump couldn't be pulled by a card that took an event into hand) and is probably best paired with idea 1 or 4 rather than as an alternative to it (3 diversifies the culture of the things referenced in the card's game text, 1/4 diversifies the culture of the card itself).

Also, would alliance work with toil? For example, could Sauron, DLoM be written "Damage +1. Fierce. Alliance: [gollum] [men] Sauron is Toil X, where X is the current region number."?

I can't remember exactly what m64 did, but it could be he meant that card's culture. But I don't see an issue.

You could be right about Sauron's toil, I think it does mean that given that toil is gametext.

[Thranduil]

I think it's time to think about mechanics. These are my initial thoughts, and I have divided them by theme. Obviously the names are not hard and fast!


Burdens/Resistance
The obvious - spotting burdens, removing burdens, adding burdens, doing things for each burden (Enduring Evil) etc.


The One Ring - making the RB wear the Ring (Resistance Becomes Unbearable), taking the Ring off (O Elbereth Gilthoniel), caring whether the Ring is on or off

eg.
•Úlairë Lemenya, Drawn to Its Power
Minion • Nazgûl
Str: 9
Vit: 2
Sit: 3
Fierce.
While the Ring-bearer wears The One Ring, ~ is strength +3.



Unyielding - (this companion's resistance is not reduced by the number of burdens).
Yes I know I've used this before, but it could be worthwhile in this set.

eg.
•Gimli
Companion • Dwarf
Str: 6
Vit: 3
Res: 6
Damage +1. Unyielding.
While Gimli has resistance 6 or more, he is strength +2.


Creature of Twilight - (companions skirmishing this minion use their resistance to resolve this skirmish instead of their strength).
A minion keyword for resistance.

eg.
•Sauron, The Great Eye
Minion • Maia
Str: 24
Vit: 5
Sit: 6
Creature of twilight. Fierce. Damage +1.
Each companion (except the Ring-bearer) is resistance -2.
"'I see you!'"



Search/Stealth
Foresee X - (to foresee X, look at the top X cards of your draw deck; place any number of those cards on top of your draw deck in any order and the rest beneath your draw deck in any order)
Again I've used this before, but it might very well express the theme of searching for the Ring. It also allows a better telepathy side theme. Take a look at Light & Shadow to see some examples.


Cards in hand - revealing, discarding your own, stripping your opponents', putting cards on top of draw deck, reconciling
This might lead to initiative, but I'm not excited about using it explicitly - it's not a very interesting mechanic. Just having hand manipulation will allow it to work well with initiative.
I did have an idea of a theme of having no cards in your hand representing putting forth all your strength. Something like "Desperation - While you have no cards in hand, this minion is strength +2 and damage +1."

eg.
Orkish Inquisition
Event • Shadow
Search.
Spot an minion to reveal the Free Peoples player's hand. Choose and discard a revealed Free Peoples card.
"'Nobody expects the Orkish Inquisition!"'


Top card of draw deck - telepathy (Forearmed), mill (Desperate Measures, Dwarven Axe)




Alliances (Fighting the Eye, gathering all his strength)
Multiculture strategies - Song of the Shire, or the sort of dual-cultures we were talking about above


Signet shenanigans - making signets matter between putting them around, counting them, spotting them, for both FP and Shadow (minion signets?)






More thoughts?

[Sam, Great Elf Warrior]

Creature of Twilight - (companions skirmishing this minion use their resistance to resolve this skirmish instead of their strength).
A minion keyword for resistance.

eg.
•Sauron, The Great Eye
Minion • Maia
Str: 24
Vit: 5
Sit: 6
Creature of twilight. Fierce. Damage +1.
Each companion (except the Ring-bearer) is resistance -2.
"'I see you!'"

So how will a companion get 13 resistance to avoid being overwhelmed? I'm not sure I'd like the idea of "resistance pumps" since choosing between them and strength pumps would be little more than a guessing game about what you'll be facing.

[Thranduil]

Creature of Twilight - (companions skirmishing this minion use their resistance to resolve this skirmish instead of their strength).
A minion keyword for resistance.

eg.
•Sauron, The Great Eye
Minion • Maia
Str: 24
Vit: 5
Sit: 6
Creature of twilight. Fierce. Damage +1.
Each companion (except the Ring-bearer) is resistance -2.
"'I see you!'"

So how will a companion get 13 resistance to avoid being overwhelmed? I'm not sure I'd like the idea of "resistance pumps" since choosing between them and strength pumps would be little more than a guessing game about what you'll be facing.

I mean yeah it's sure broken that particular card. I was just trying to point out a possibility. Probably wasn't a great example.

But you might play resistance boosters anyway if you needed to count resistance for yourself.

[Sam, Great Elf Warrior]

I mean yeah it's sure broken that particular card. I was just trying to point out a possibility. Probably wasn't a great example.

But you might play resistance boosters anyway if you needed to count resistance for yourself.

Ah, okay, that was just an example and not typical of the sort of cards you'd make (personally, I'd limit the strength of "creatures of twilight" to around 8).

Actually, you might want to give creatures of twilight resistance instead of strength, so that their strength can't be increased or decreased by pumps: although the fact that most strength -X pumps, which would be especially effective against such minions, are or does fit flavor-wise, it would give those cultures a bit of a boost over other cultures. Also, throwing, say, a couple of Houses of Lamentation on a creature of twilight makes killing comps way too easy.

[chompers]

Creature of Twilight is a good idea in theory but in practice is terribly broken. Add a few burdens and you have some easy overwhelms. I don't know how easy is would be to balance all of this. Probably better to just not go there IMO.

[MR. Lurtzy]

Unyielding is incredibly lame and unflavorful.

[putridbreath]

yeah discarding :Rohan: possessions to liberate sites---pshh.

[MR. Lurtzy]

Funny.

[Thranduil]

Yeah these are just my ideas off the top of my head. I will be thinking more about it and I really would prefer you guys to give some thoughts on the other non-resistance mechanics I was proposing (I'm not sure it's the best idea to run them at all), and to think about your own.