The Road Goes On! The Long Defeat

[Thranduil]

This block, currently codenamed Paths, is a site block. The main focus is the sites, the adventure path, the adventure decks, etc. This follows on from my last DC block, Light & Shadow, to which the sites were essentially incidental and instead focussed on resistance and The Ring. The final set, Back to the Light, included a lot of culture-shifted cards (cards normally of one culture found in another) and sprinkled throughout was the roots of multi-culture. In particular, I began focussing on "tribal cards" (cards that care about unloaded keywords like knight, ranger, besieger, tracker etc.). This tribal theme will come to the fore in Paths.

Paths will comprise of 3 sets, for the moment known as:

1) Road (250 cards)
2) Goes (120 cards)
3) On (120 cards)

Block mechanics:

• The most important mechanical theme is sites. This means cards like Pathfinder and Traveled Leader are obviously important. Also cards that care about terrain, like Gondorian Blade, Uruviel, Woodland Maid and so on. Also cards like Caravan from the South. And many other things besides! It will see games using sites, adventure paths and adventure decks in new ways never seen in LotR before!

Bow of Lórien
Possession • Ranged Weapon
Bearer must be an Elf.
While the fellowship is at a forest site, each minion skirmishing bearer is strength -1.
While the fellowship is at a river site, bearer is an archer.
C

Tracking the Enemy
Event • Skirmish
Stealth.
Make a ranger strength +2 (or +3 if an opponent is ahead of you on the adventure path).
C

• I was hinting at this before by my Lookout thread, which will feature as one of the block mechanics. This allows me to spend most cardspace on permanent cards (characters, followers, conditions, possessions, artifacts) but many of them will act like events. For those of you who haven't seen my other thread, lookout will work like this:

Lookout – Phase: Cost. (Phase: Pay the lookout cost to play this card from your hand; then discard it from play).

Vindictive Breelander
Minion • Man
Str: 6
Vit: 3
Sit: 2
Traitor. Lookout – Maneuver: Spot your traitor minion. (Maneuver: Spot your traitor minion to play this minion from your hand; then discard it from play).
When this minion is killed or discarded from play, you may reveal the Free Peoples player's hand.
U

• A keyword I've used before will be making a recurrence, with a slight change: legendary (when a legendary permanent card is about to go to the discard pile from play or a legendary event is about to go to the discard pile after resolving, it goes to the dead pile instead of the discard pile). This means each player has in principle 2 dead piles, Shadow and Free Peoples, which are only active during their opponent's or their turns respectively. So there will be mechanics hinging on the discard and dead piles as well. Note that the uniqueness rule of the dead pile still applies only to companions.

•Úlairë Enquëa, Feared Lieutenant
Minion • Nazgûl
Str: 11
Vit: 4
Sit: 3
Damage +1. Fierce. Legendary. (When Úlairë Enquëa is about to go the discard pile from play, he goes to the dead pile instead).
C

• The first set will also showcase a new keyword which I also previewed a while back: Monument (A monument card's game text is always active). This allows particularly sites (but also other cards) to continue to affect the game even when you are past them (or it is not your turn), and to include global effects or effects for you as a player instead of as either a Shadow or FP player.

•Library of Orthanc, Ancient Repository
Artifact • Support Area
Monument. (Library of Orthanc's game text is always active).
To play, spot Saruman.
Your maximum hand size is increased by 2.
R

And now with that teaser, I will tell you that I'll start with some more details and new cards from the first set, Road, in the near future.

[chompers]

looking forward to it !!

[Cw0rk]

I don't like  the idea of sets named 'Goes' and 'On'.

I'm not sure that I like the legendary idea... I mean basically if it doesn't have any of the dead pile rules it's just another discard pile but with another name. One thing that could be interesting could be minions that are not discarded at the end of the turn, Legendary could be a nice keyword for that.

The Monument Keyword is a good idea. What happens if I shuffle a monument from my discard pile into my draw deck? It is still active?

[Thranduil]

I don't like  the idea of sets named 'Goes' and 'On'.

They're not actually going to be called that! They're just codenames, like MTG called this year's block Live, Long and Prosper until the set names, Zendikar, Worldwake and Rise of the Eldrazi were released. I haven't finalised the names yet, and I thought I would leave a little bit of suspense.

I'm not sure that I like the legendary idea... I mean basically if it doesn't have any of the dead pile rules it's just another discard pile but with another name. One thing that could be interesting could be minions that are not discarded at the end of the turn, Legendary could be a nice keyword for that.

It's not quite another discard pile, because it is harder to get back cards that go to the dead pile. I'm hoping that when I use it a bit, you'll see what it's really for.

Minions that don't discard at the end of the turn are really weird and I'm not sure how that would work. What would they do in between turns?

The Monument Keyword is a good idea. What happens if I shuffle a monument from my discard pile into my draw deck? It is still active?

No. I suppose technically the helper text should perhaps read: "While in play...". It was implied, but not stated explicitly.

Thranduil

[Cw0rk]

I thought that the monument keyword made the cards still active even if they were in the discard pile as well. I still like that keyword anyway.

Minions that don't discard at the end of the turn are really weird and I'm not sure how that would work. What would they do in between turns?

Between turns... well you could move the card away (in your support area maybe) and keep the wounds on your minion. When the next shadow phase would start, just move the minion back... as it is already in play you don't have to pay his cost again.

I'll make a new thread about that. Let's keep this thread talking about your new block only.

[Thranduil]

Tell me what you think about these guys:

•Aragorn, Of the Three Hunters
Companion • Man
Str: 8
Vit: 4
Res: 8
Ranger.
At the start of the regroup phase, if an opponent is ahead of you on the adventure path, you may discard a minion.
A R

•Legolas, Of the Three Hunters
Companion • Elf
Str: 6
Vit: 3
Res: 6
Archer.
At the start of the archery phase, if an opponent is ahead of you on the adventure path, you may exert a minion.
A R

•Gimli, Of the Three Hunters
Companion • Dwarf
Str: 6
Vit: 3
Res: 6
Damage +1.
At the start of your fellowship phase, if an opponent is ahead of you on the adventure path, you may take a Free Peoples event into hand from your discard pile.
A R

[lem0nhead]

For nostalgias sake!

Tell me what you think about these guys:

•Aragorn, Of the Three Hunters
Companion • Man
Str: 8
Vit: 4
Res: 8
Ranger.
At the start of the regroup phase, if an opponent is ahead of you on the adventure path, you may discard a minion.
A R

Good but he would probably suit the C version more. Ive always thought that regroup effect characters are less useful than other effect ones as you dont by rule double move as much as you single move.

•Legolas, Of the Three Hunters
Companion • Elf
Str: 6
Vit: 3
Res: 6
Archer.
At the start of the archery phase, if an opponent is ahead of you on the adventure path, you may exert a minion.
A R

Compared to other legolas and due to the fact hes rare id have to say wound. 50% of the time hes going to be useless if the guy is ahead of you.

•Gimli, Of the Three Hunters
Companion • Dwarf
Str: 6
Vit: 3
Res: 6
Damage +1.
At the start of your fellowship phase, if an opponent is ahead of you on the adventure path, you may take a Free Peoples event into hand from your discard pile.
A R

Wow power to the dwarves! Love him, can think of many ways to abuse him!

[Thranduil]

For nostalgias sake!

Did you notice where my inspiration came from lem0n? :hey:

lem0nhead
•Aragorn, Wingfoot (V)
Companion • Man
Strength: 8
Vitality: 4
Resistance: 8
Ranger.
If an opponent is ahead of you on the site path, Aragorn gains hunter 3 and at the start of the maneuver phase you may wound a minion.
"'Forty leagues and five you have measured ere the fourth day is ended! Hardy is the race of Elendil"'"
4 V 364

Also I'll tell you of an alternate Legolas I had:

"At the start of the maneuver phase, if an opponent is ahead of you on the adventure path, you may heal Legolas twice."

I didn't use it because I wanted the "if an opponent is ahead of you" to be an aggressive strategy, not a defensive. It would be too easy to play a surviving FP with this sort of strategy, letting your opponent get ahead to trigger your comps so that they survive, instead of trying to get ahead.

Thranduil

[gk1964]

What about making the texts for Aragorn & Legolas active if they are ahead on the adventure path in exchange for exertions or threats?

gk

[lem0nhead]

For nostalgias sake!

Did you notice where my inspiration came from lem0n? :hey:

lem0nhead
•Aragorn, Wingfoot (V)
Companion • Man
Strength: 8
Vitality: 4
Resistance: 8
Ranger.
If an opponent is ahead of you on the site path, Aragorn gains hunter 3 and at the start of the maneuver phase you may wound a minion.
"'Forty leagues and five you have measured ere the fourth day is ended! Hardy is the race of Elendil"'"
4 V 364

Also I'll tell you of an alternate Legolas I had:

"At the start of the maneuver phase, if an opponent is ahead of you on the adventure path, you may heal Legolas twice."

I didn't use it because I wanted the "if an opponent is ahead of you" to be an aggressive strategy, not a defensive. It would be too easy to play a surviving FP with this sort of strategy, letting your opponent get ahead to trigger your comps so that they survive, instead of trying to get ahead.

Thranduil

I knew it sounded familiar, and i was thinking I'm sure someone tried that idea before....

I agree with you wholeheartedly. If youre behind you should be attacking to catch up, not sitting back on your laurels. Keep with the aggro, and less control. (Cant help but use Magic terms its such a superior game!)

[chompers]

The concept is good, but once you are ahead (which is apparently the point) you lose their gametext and then they do nothing. Players are unlikely to use them if they want to win by getting to site 9 first .... they probably need something else for when they are in the lead. Just my 2 cents.

[Cw0rk]

I like their gametext but I would gave them all Hunter 1.

[Thranduil]

I can see the point of putting on a minor keyword like hunter 1 to make sure they have something useful at other times, but unfortunately I refuse to use such a boring keyword! Is there some other simple thing I could do?

I think I will follow lem0n's suggestions: 1) make Aragorn C, 2) make Legolas wound minions instead. I'm okay with them not doing anything exciting when they're ahead. There are going to be a series of cards that help the underdogs and harm the leaders.

At the moment, I'm just going to be throwing out ideas to see how they are received. Let's try some legendary cards:

Hidden Realms
Condition • Support Area
Legendary. Tale. (When this card is about to go to the discard pile from play, it goes to the dead pile instead).
Maneuver: Spot an Elf and discard this condition to replace the current site with a forest or river site with Shadow number 2 or more from your adventure deck.
C

So the point of this card being legendary is that it stops you using it again and again with cards like Gil-galad.

•Lost Secrets
Condition • Support Area
Legendary. (When this card is about to go to the discard pile from play, it goes to the dead pile instead).
Lookout – Fellowship: exert your companion. (Fellowship: Exert your companion to play this card from your hand; then discard this card from play).
To play, spot an Elf.
When you play this condition, choose an opponent who must discard a card from hand.
When this condition is discarded, choose an opponent who must discard a card from hand.
U

Here it provides an extra drawback for a lookout card that likes to be discarded.

Learn from the Past
Event • Maneuver
Legendary. (When this card is about to go the discard pile after resolving, it goes to the dead pile instead).
Spot your unique Elf to place a Free Peoples card from your discard pile on top of your draw deck.
U

In this card it comes with a discard pile mechanic, stopping you from abusing it.

The Long Defeat
Event • Fellowship
Spell. Legendary. (When this card is about to go the discard pile after resolving, it goes to the dead pile instead).
To play, spot an Elf.
Exert 3 companions to move each character card in all discard piles into that card's owner's dead pile.
R

Here it offsets a huge effect (centred around discard/dead piles).

So what do we think of each of these slightly different uses of the legendary keyword? Which ones work well? Which ones don't? (I'm much more interested in how legendary is working for these cards than the details of the cards themselves).

Thranduil

[gk1964]

I think that putting conditions, events etc. into the dead pile kinda distorts the function of the dead pile. Also are there not other cards that have actions based on the number of cards in the dead pile.
Can we not have another pile and call it the graveyard?

gk

[Thranduil]

I think that putting conditions, events etc. into the dead pile kinda distorts the function of the dead pile. Also are there not other cards that have actions based on the number of cards in the dead pile.
Can we not have another pile and call it the graveyard?

I wouldn't say "distort". Rather "expand". Have you ever played A Game of Thrones TCG (now one of Fantasy Flight Game's LCGs, Living Card Games)? They used a similar discard/dead pile duality. The dead pile started off as the place killed characters go, but it wasn't long before there were doomed cards that went there and other mechanics involving it.

So I'm not convinced it makes the dead pile significantly less dramatic, but can increase interaction of cards and rules by a large amount.

Essentially this block is trying to use physical cardspace that is not often used in the current game, for example adventure decks, adventure paths, discard pile and dead pile. For most of these cards, you could of course use the "removed from the game" zone or make a new one called "graveyard", but I feel that while there is a game zone that is hardly used, we might as well use it.

I hope those ramblings make some sort of sense...

Thranduil