Size of deck

[Fjordhermit]

Hey, everyone, I've recently started collecting and playing this game and am having a blast with it.  One thing that I haven't quite gotten a handle on is deck size.  My tendency is to fill a deck with tons of stuff, often to the count of 90 cards (45 free, 45 shadow).  Is this stupid?  I notice people here posting their decks and they focus on not only one Shadow (for instance), but one subfaction of a Shadow.  In my decks, I include multiple factions (example: mostly Moria swarm with a handful of Nazgul).  I'll use a bunch of Hobbit stuff, Gandalf and stuff for him, and a couple of rangers (all in one deck, for example).  The decks turn out to be huge.  Is it better to go with slim and focused decks?  Is it actually a bad strategy to have large decks?

I should point out that I'm only using Fellowship cards for now.  It's all so new, maybe I'm just so excited to use as many cards as possible to try them all out.  I have a lot to learn about deck flow, apparently.
Thanks!

[Pepi]

Depends on the deck rly, but in most casses I'd say less is more.

[jcb213]

You want to keep in mind that in a game you want to go through most or all of your deck.  So, the bigger your deck is the less likely you are to get through your deck and the more likely you are to not get the cards you need.

I never build a deck that is more than 32/32 unless I have a solid drawing or cycling engine in it (moria, corsairs, etc).  It's also important to consider how you match your free peoples up with your shadow.  It's a good idea to have at least one of your sides be able to draw or cycle.  You definitely don't want to play both a free peoples and shadow that are combo heavy or require you to hold cards in your hand in the same deck, because you'll end up trying to hold cards for both and neither will be very effective.

[ket_the_jet]

Anything over seven and a half inches is considered large by most professional standards.

Oh! Deck!

It largely depends on the cycling in your deck. If you play and Corsairs or , you could conceptually have a 120 card deck that you burn through every game (Beneath The Mountains and Realm of Dwarrowdelf come to mind).

On the same token, you could play an deck with that is 60 cards and get through 45 of them by site 9.

The trick is having cards that help you flow. Cards that unclog your hand, like Fell Beast or most initiative cards in King Block can really make a huge difference and you can justify more Meta-specific cards.

When making a deck, start small. Add a few meta cards as you wish (don't overdo it with four copies of Stand Against Darkness, for example), but make sure that you can cycle those cards out if you aren't playing against that particular opponent.
-wtk

[Cw0rk]

If you play multiplayer games, you'll want to have a larger deck that if you play one on one games.

[jdizzy001]

personally, my decks are never larger than 30/30, even in multiplayer.  Crazy? yes, but I'm making a statement.  I think Big D should have limited deck sizes to 30/30.  That's just me though, and few people agree with me

[Cw0rk]

personally, my decks are never larger than 30/30, even in multiplayer.  Crazy? yes, but I'm making a statement.  I think Big D should have limited deck sizes to 30/30.  That's just me though, and few people agree with me

You probably have never played Dwarf with Moria.

[MR. Lurtzy]

The perfect deck is a 2/2.

[ket_the_jet]

personally, my decks are never larger than 30/30, even in multiplayer.  Crazy? yes, but I'm making a statement.  I think Big D should have limited deck sizes to 30/30.  That's just me though, and few people agree with me

You are inviting yourself into the loser's bracket.
-wtk

[jdizzy001]

You are inviting yourself into the loser's bracket.
-wtk

haha, i reign supreme in the losers bracket, but I've been there for so long it doesn't bother me anymore.

[Cw0rk]

You are inviting yourself into the loser's bracket.
-wtk

haha, i reign supreme in the losers bracket, but I've been there for so long it doesn't bother me anymore.

Perhaps that not limiting yourself to 30/30 would be an improvement.

[jdizzy001]

only in rare cases would i consider it. such as a moria swarm deck

[Elrohir]

Anything over seven and a half inches is considered large by most professional standards.

What are you referring to?

The perfect deck is a 2/2.

 

I prefer 32/32

[Not a Zombie]

Anything over seven and a half inches is considered large by most professional standards.

What are you referring to?

Don't ask.

My decks range anywhere from 30/30 to 38/38. My most competitive deck is I think a 37/37, but it cycles and filters like crazy.

[Witchkingx5]

back to topic, you also asked about mixing cultures and strategies:

"If a man tries to catch two rabbits, he catches none." - Confuzius

What I exactly wanted to say is, that you should really stik with one big plan and try to eliminate weaknesses in your Deck. As example, at least one Shotgun Enquea or another crwod control card is Staple in a Moria Swarm, as it would die to big fellowships with lots of wounding à la Greenleaf/ Aragorn's Bow. That' the first point about mixing cultures.

another point is Gollum. He's a great Splashing culture. DaD for Twilight Nazzies, Stinker for Corruption, Threatening Guide for Decks with threat manipulating, Old Villain for cycling, and of course CBTR grabs Gollum from discard or deck. Gollum is there as a complement for the Deck, as might be some other cards. But I don't want to get too Deck-specific. There are lots of threads about Splashing comps at the boards.

upshot:
-> mixing cultures: rather yes
-> mixing strategies: rather no, besides Splashes.

[Pepin The Breve]

Deck size is pretty much concearned with the great lotr tcg issue: Draws!!!

Many people that start to play tend to throw up every cards they think that can be useful in a deck, and put togheter cards that can make a great combo or something but forgot about the main factor: more cards in a deck = lesser chance of gets the specific cards you need at the time you need. If you need to gather 4 cards togheter at hand to make a great move you risk to have a terrible hand clog that may be terrible for the flowing of your game. Or it can take too long to get some key cards you need early on.

Thats why peple often use cycling (draw and discard a lot of cards) and filtering (play directly from your draw deck) to deal with this problems.

As have been said here the deck size pretty much depends on the combined strategy of freeps and shadow (yet another mistake of beginers is think that shadow and free peoples sides are two completely separated things). Other stuff like playing stuff from discard pile or be able to reshufle stuff from discard back into draw deck also count a lot.

My decks vary between 32 and 37 cards each side and what determines the final size is, at least in great portion, the mentioned aspects. But again nothing prevent you to make a deck that works quite well with 50 cards each side, like some dwarven with Moria for example.

And don't forget the best way to see if the deck is working is to playtest it!

[stimpy]

I agree that the larger a deck gets, in general the potential problems grow exponentially. I've found that all else being equal, if I'm adding more cards to a deck, then I am looking for more combos or holding onto more situation-specific cards, which means even more hand clog, which means I'm cycling and drawing even fewer cards while the deck is getting bigger.

I am no veteran like some others here, but I might even consider giving myself a hard rule - such as unless I am playing dwarves or moria or cards with muster, I will not let my deck exceed 34/34 or thereabouts.

I am sure if you cared to post your decklist people would be happy to provide advice on how to streamline the deck and what could be some good cards to include. Again, I am no expert but have played a fair bit, and if you want to even just PM me with the general cards you are playing I can try to offer some thoughts on how to maybe make Gandalf / Gondor work well together, or how to build a moria deck that will go well with the free peoples. Have a lovely weekend, all!

[SomeRandomDude]

30/30 is a lean, mean, killing machine. I run that on like my filter freeps/forest nazzie deck. Cycle through completely by 5 and slam with 13 nazzies immediately thereafter. No, serious, I do. Consistently, which is the thing with smaller decks, they're consistent, you know how they'll act, you'll get cards you need, etc.

Between 30/30 and 33/33 is about my typical deck size. 34/34 and 35/35 is my size for decks that do a decent amount of cycling. 36/36 is about max for a cycler Dwarves freeps. 38/38-42/42 is the legendary Dwarf/Moria swarm.

AC (from the old boards) had a competetive deck, though, that was running 120/120. Course, he was using the Gamling's Horn combo to pull like 20 of those cards out of the deck each site...but...ya.

So.

Combo decks, never more than 30/30 (typically with the freeps filtering- because shadow combos are insanely more powerful than freeps combos, which can still be outrun...unless you're like, talking fruit loops or something).
Regular decks- no more than 33/33.
Cycler decks- not typically more than 35/35.

Then specialty decks can do decent things as well.

[SomeRandomDude]

Oh, and concerning splashing- splashing should do one of two things- 1- Completely develop a new strategy in very few cards (I.E.- splashing burden removal) or 2- accentuate an already existing strategy.

One of my favorites is dropping Gothmog, Lieutenant of Morgul into a site control deck.
Shotgun Enquea is also a classic- it techs against a specific type of deck.

[legolas3333]

I generally go 32/32 which I think is the best size other than that I  have 1 deck that is 34/34 and one that is 44/44 but both of them draw like crazy

[Pepin The Breve]

My best decks are 35/35 and 36/36. Probably if i cut them to 30/30 they will lost a lot of their power so don't go always with a recipe of what number you should go. Just keep in mind that tips people gave in this topic and go testing the ones you develop... playing is the best way to be aware of what can be improved.

[SomeRandomDude]

That said, the general consensus is that 45/45 is too big.

[Fjordhermit]

Thanks for the advice, everyone!  I think my initial excitement to use a bunch of the cards lead me to bloat my deck.  I don't think I want to post what was in it, because I'm still learning and the deck probably sucked 
Can't wait to play more!

[jdizzy001]

good or bad, you should post it.  deck critiques are among the best methods of improving your deck building skills.  The other, and by far the best method, is to play the deck and see how it fairs.  That is why we have the gccg! DOWNLOAD IT NOW!!!!  (<- that's just a joke.).

[stimpy]

jdizzy is definitely right, everyone will understand you're a beginner and you will get a lot of helpful advice. The worst that will happen by posting your deck is that people will suggest you go buy expensive cards that you have no interest in paying for.

[ket_the_jet]

jdizzy is definitely right, everyone will understand you're a beginner and you will get a lot of helpful advice. The worst that will happen by posting your deck is that people will suggest you go buy expensive cards that you have no interest in paying for.

What cards in Movie Block are actually expensive anymore? I can't think of a single card in Movie Block that you couldn't buy a play set of for less than $16, if you look around. Yes, that includes Goblin Armory, Hate, Simbelmyne, Hides, and the other classics.
-wtk

[jdizzy001]

Of course you have to find the card you're looking for first.  Some cards are just difficult to locate, like goblin bowman or the gondor one... Gondor bowmen?

[putridbreath]

If you're talking about the strength four archer:
http://www.ccg-singles.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_3&products_id=1688
easy enough
but Gondor Bowmen is tougher---and I doubt I can nab 4 copies of Hides for 16$ (ket)

[jdizzy001]

oops no, i meant the sauron condition orc bowmen

[ket_the_jet]

I got my four copies of Hides from the same guy for $12 total. But they're long gone.
-wtk