Author Topic: Dice/Stat Based RPG'ing? (Read 20415 times)

Elf_Lvr · « **on:** August 09, 2008, 09:26:57 PM »

Hey guys, I was just thinking about beginning a diced RPG format here - especially after reading the links Dain and CG posted to "Darths & Droids" and "DM of the Rings." I'd be all for researching diced RPG rule formats and writing one up for use on this site - along with character formats, skills and abilities, items, enemies, and so forth... I think it sounds like a sort of fun challenge.

But before I put in the effort I'd want to to know how many people would be INTERESTED in such a monstrosity. So, what say you?

Come on now, WHAT SAY YOU?

[crickets chirp]

Anyone?

Basically this is me attempting to step up and mod this forum. So, I'm not gonna be crushed if there isn't much excitement for this sort of thing; after all, this site is about TCGs, not RPGs.

Another problem would, of course, be dice. I wonder if Kralik could come up with some sort of dice system like we had at CC... or something. If he doesn't end up finding this post, I'll PM him, again, if there's enough interest.

AgentDrake · « **Reply #1 on:** August 10, 2008, 06:39:59 AM »

Might be interested, but I probably wouldn't have the time.

...maybe I could make a few Gandalf-style cameos...

CarpeGuitarrem · « **Reply #2 on:** August 10, 2008, 11:39:15 AM »

Mmm, that would be fun. I've looked at a bunch of different systems, including D&D, GURPS, and a few obscure ones, and I say we could even homebrew a TLHH system. That could be very cool. What I'd love to see is a nice, streamlined-but-fun system.

What genre? And what feel? How much "crunch" (strict rules) do you want to have? How much realism?

Etc., etc., etc.

And do you want it to be more of an aide to roleplay, or a way to make roleplay into a fun game?

Dice shouldn't be a problem. I bet Kralik would be able to get something together.

AgentDrake · « **Reply #3 on:** August 10, 2008, 12:25:17 PM »

I vote for keeping things fairly loose and casual.

I actually really like the DC RPG system that CG cooked up and Dain shanghai'ed. Doesn't work for everything, but it's a great original idea. Hoping Dain can get Realms going again, for one.
And I might be able to get Troy running by the time CG and Kralik get a system sorted out for dice, or something.

CarpeGuitarrem · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2008, 07:24:14 PM »

As far as the DC RPG system...well, was more of a novelty, using DCs to resolve an RPG. As an RP system, it's not that great. And not very customizable.

But a loose system, I definitely have a bit of expertise with writing rules for that. I might toss around a few ideas, come up with a basic mechanic.

sickofpalantirs · « **Reply #5 on:** August 10, 2008, 07:33:18 PM »

I'd be very interested.

Elf_Lvr · « **Reply #6 on:** August 10, 2008, 09:12:13 PM »

Wow. People are actually (maybe) going to participate in this. Someone drag Dain over here and we'll have a decent group.

Since I know nothing about dice-based RPG systems (like D&D), I think I'd probably need some help writing/proofing whatever system we do use. Up for it, CG?

This was a really bad idea to have 2 days before I start school, but I'll try to devote as much time to it as I can.

CarpeGuitarrem · « **Reply #7 on:** August 10, 2008, 09:24:13 PM »

Lol, yeah the starting-school thing. And while I have probably not enough time to commit to playing in an RP, I will definitely be around to suggest unique ideas for a dice-based system.

Initial idea: I'd like to try and steer away from a numbers game as much as possible. I.e., your stats give you bonuses to rolls, which you try and get as high as possible. What I think would be nifty is something more like a dice-pool system, such as the one used by White Wolf's Storyteller system. You have a certain number of dice (determined by a stat), and you count however many dice fall above a certain number. That gives you three areas to modify difficulty in, for example, and it also provides a nice round curve, instead of the flat curve given by the d20 system. (Which means that really, really good rolls and really, really bad rolls will both happen not a lot, like in real life. If you want me to explain, I can...but it's some funky statistics work)

Now, I don't know that we want to clone a major aspect of the White Wolf system, but you get the general idea. I'd like to base it off of a non-standard dice mechanic.

AgentDrake · « **Reply #8 on:** August 11, 2008, 06:45:53 PM »

Ooookay.....

I understood none of that....

sickofpalantirs · « **Reply #9 on:** August 12, 2008, 05:53:56 AM »

I understood...so would we use our own dice? or have something like on CC?

CarpeGuitarrem · « **Reply #10 on:** August 12, 2008, 01:18:38 PM »

Quote from: AgentDrake on August 11, 2008, 06:45:53 PM

Ooookay.....

I understood none of that....

Lol. Actually, on second thought, that system might not be a bad one. It wouldn't be sold, so I'm not so concerned about having similar mechanics to other RP systems. So basically...here's how it would work.

Let's say that one of your statistics lets you roll four dice. Because of one factor, these are six-sided dice. Because of another factor, your target number is three. Finally, one last factor requires you to have two successes. So you roll the dice.

You get a 5, a 4, a 2, and a 6. That's three dice that fell above a three. Three successes. Which means that you achieved your goal of two successes, and then some. So you'd succeed in whatever you were trying to do, and maybe get a bonus. So.

I'm thinking it could be something like this...

Basic Attribute: How many dice you roll.
Skill: What type of dice you roll.
Skill required for a task: What the target number is.
Effort required for a task: How many successes you need.

So let's say you have a character with the attribute "Strength 2", and the Skill "Miner (d6)". He also has a pickaxe, which increases the Skill to "Miner (d8)". He wants to try and dig through rock. The person running the game sets the difficulty at 2, but requires a good bit of effort, namely, 2. The character rolls both dice, and gets a 3 and a 1. Bad luck...the 3 passes, but the 1 doesn't, so you only get one success. He fails.

If you need me to elaborate, I can, but...wow, that actually feels like it would work.

lem0nhead · « **Reply #11 on:** August 14, 2008, 01:49:16 AM »

HEY! Good job i randomly decided to drop in on this forum for some reason.

Im so up for a dice based TPG game, i love D&D, ive just never bothered here cos i didnt like the DC style RPG.

Count me in if we can get a D20 online system working.

Here's a link to a good die roller http://hamete.org/dserver/dice and if you register your email it can keep a log of your rolls to stop cheating.....

If know one likes that idea could Dain or Kralik get a button introduced to the forum that when clicked creates a post that identifies itself as authentic i.e. un modded or simply posted, that generates a random number?

CarpeGuitarrem · « **Reply #12 on:** August 14, 2008, 12:36:34 PM »

Dain, what sort of d20 are you talking? Because at the moment...I don't have access to 3.5 stuff (and probably won't), just the 4e PHB. Although I do know that d20 Modern and d20 Future are available online, openly, legally. But I have no experience in those. Did you have a look at Chameleon? Very different from d20, mainly because I've messed around with different systems' mechanics, but I think it can work well. And would be in need of playtesting.

The die roller you've got is good, although I'd definitely prefer an on-forum integration.

lem0nhead · « **Reply #13 on:** August 15, 2008, 01:41:55 AM »

Question to CG. Why are you addressing Dain when he hasnt posted in this thread

I have access to all the 3.5 stuff for D&D. PDF and physical.

CarpeGuitarrem · « **Reply #14 on:** August 15, 2008, 01:22:55 PM »

*whacks head*

And that was posted at a sane hour of the day, too. I meant you, lem0n.

lem0nhead · « **Reply #15 on:** August 18, 2008, 01:38:30 AM »

Well what do you want to know CG?

http://shadowsystems.laurencemartin.org/DND_35Ed/

You can dl all the D&D books there for version 3.5 (which is better than 4 anyway) so it wouldnt be hard to for everyone....

CarpeGuitarrem · « **Reply #16 on:** August 18, 2008, 01:30:37 PM »

As far as "better", I haven't played enough in 4e to make a comparison (from looking at the rulebooks, it seems to be far more streamlined/shiny/TCG-like than the more simulation-esque 3.5), but I have seen that site before. Not entirely sure if it's legal...

FM · « **Reply #17 on:** August 18, 2008, 02:08:05 PM »

If anyone wants help on this one, drop me a PM, I'm a DM for 3.5 D&D (have been for 7 years now), and I'm used to developing rules, systems, items, spells, feats, skills, special abilities, etc. I also used to DM an online RPG, so I'm fairly used to developing entire Rules Systems.

Gate Troll · « **Reply #18 on:** September 26, 2008, 07:33:00 PM »

*Bump* Cool idea! Anyone going to start a dice rpg soon?

FM · « **Reply #19 on:** September 26, 2008, 07:34:42 PM »

CG developed a hybrid system and it's supposed to be going on right now as a stickied post. Chameleon, 72 hours.

CarpeGuitarrem · « **Reply #20 on:** September 28, 2008, 10:31:19 PM »

At the moment, it seems to have stalled...

sickofpalantirs · « **Reply #21 on:** September 29, 2008, 10:20:34 AM »

we need more peoples....

FM · « **Reply #22 on:** October 20, 2008, 09:15:40 AM »

We need a stats/rule system, that's what we need. Seriously, I see no reason why not make a "short story" Forum, for all I care, Free-styling is pretty much writing, not a lot of RP'ing, specially since characters "can't" die, unless stated otherwise, so you lose a whole branch of RP'ing, which would be survival, protecting others, etc.

sickofpalantirs · « **Reply #23 on:** October 20, 2008, 03:31:28 PM »

thats really what are RPG's are...your right about that.

FM · « **Reply #24 on:** October 20, 2008, 06:58:46 PM »

Also, careful planning on combat strategies, approaches to leaders, that sort of stuff. Since you pretty much go ahead and write what happens, there's no such thing. I think it's fun, I really do, but it's not RP'ing, and it takes a good chunk of the fun of it away. Rules are not to make it boring, it's to make it realistic enough that you FEEL you're roleplaying, while keeping it fantastic enough that if you're high enough on levels, you CAN swim up a waterfall (read Epic level).

CarpeGuitarrem · « **Reply #25 on:** October 22, 2008, 08:25:15 PM »

"Free-form" RP also has rules. It's called the rule of common sense. By formalizing the rules, you add more of a game element. For example, using a d20 doesn't cater to roleplaying so much as it caters to a game. It doesn't add realism, it adds unpredictability. (And lest you note that unpredictability exists in the real world, unpredictability follows a bell curve, not a flat curve. GURPS does a much better job, for example, in this regard)

FM · « **Reply #26 on:** October 23, 2008, 08:46:48 AM »

Not really. It does add realism in what not all attacks always land. And THAT'S realism. You don't succeed in everything you do, be it telling a story or climbing a mountain, sometimes, you'll perform poorly on those tasks, that's a fact. The higher your level (thus, the more experience you have on doing it), the lesser the chance of it actually happen, but it'll still happen every now and then.

CarpeGuitarrem · « **Reply #27 on:** October 28, 2008, 11:07:42 PM »

http://lotrplaza.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=17

Have a look at some of the threads there.

With regards to the realism issue...you're talking about a simulationist approach to storytelling. D&D is not a great simulator, because of the lack of a bell curve in the probability. It is a good game to play around with, a meld of a game of chance and of storytelling.

FM · « **Reply #28 on:** October 29, 2008, 06:30:34 AM »

http://www.lotrplaza.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=223909

I particularly liked what I saw here. However, I think we're a long way behind to rising up to that level of expertise, and they have rules on their system, sometimes ENFORCED rules, like class-related weaponry, spells, etc.

CarpeGuitarrem · « **Reply #29 on:** November 03, 2008, 09:56:08 PM »

The enforced rules, though, are "arbitrary", and not backed up by any one set ruleset. In a nutshell, freeform. That's what freeform RP is. The GM sets the parameters, and you operate within them. And those generally don't include stats for freeform. Realism takes a backseat to storytelling, when it must, like in most novels.

FM · « **Reply #30 on:** November 04, 2008, 02:37:50 AM »

They include stats as class/abilities limitations. It's a different set of stats, but they are stats nonetheless. However, my personal opinion is that by having rules vary from one RPG to another may get messed up over time, so that's why I, for one, would encourgae a Core Rules system. Even if some RPGs chose to ignore them in the future - and they'd be free to do so - GM's could follow it to have one less thing to worry about, and also to have a standard. But the RP Forum is not that active anymore, so I think it doesn't matter. Otoh, it could shake things up and bring people back to rp'ing.

Elf_Lvr · « **Reply #31 on:** November 04, 2008, 06:38:05 PM »

Which I'd certainly love. But it seems like plenty of our usual people are MIA.

Anyways, Felipe, if we could work out a good system, I'd be all for having a Core Rules System.

FM · « **Reply #32 on:** November 05, 2008, 03:28:45 AM »

It's not really that hard, it just depends on how much rule enforcement the roleplayers would want. For instance, would you like to have your options limited to what your character CAN actually pull off? Or you don't want the trouble to keep a list of skills? Do you want to have damage rolls? Or a looser system? How much customizable do you want the characters to be? Should you purchase equipment, and get better equipment as you grow, or you like it better having "heirlooms" be your weapons of choice (which couls still be worked out, by means of magically enhancing THAT heirloom-weapon)? Stuff like this.

CarpeGuitarrem · « **Reply #33 on:** November 05, 2008, 12:20:44 PM »

It's probably smarter to have a modular ruleset. Have some very basic rules which can be modified for each game. Get too many rules, and you limit the genre of RP.

Also look into some non-d20 systems like GURPS, The Window and FATE. d20 has a lot of shortcomings, like the flat die curve, gaming the system, and extreme XP-hunting/leveling-up (which works for the video-game paradigm, where you become more and more powerful, but not for a more limited and gritty paradigm where you have a cap on your capabilities and don't advance to become a demigod).

FM · « **Reply #34 on:** November 05, 2008, 12:28:35 PM »

Awwww but being a demigod is FUN!

Elf_Lvr · « **Reply #35 on:** November 05, 2008, 03:07:35 PM »

That's what freeform is for.