Author Topic: Mind and Body (Read 18186 times)

MuadDib85 · « **on:** September 02, 2010, 10:33:31 PM »

I have decided to try and foil a twilight nazgul deck. I want Mind and Body to be the 'suprise awesome factor' of the deck. The rest is up for negotiation, except please don't suggest any enduring nazgul.

I wanted to pair this with pipeweed, and found Gil-Estel's TS pipes fellowship that looks about the best I've seen, so have tried to convert it movie block and see how it goes.

Any thoughts?

Frodo and Ring
*The One Ring, Answer To All Riddles (4R1)
*Frodo, Reluctant Adventurer (2C102)

Sites
(1R)Isengard Ruined (7U331)
(2R)Rohirrim Camp (7U336)
(3R)Hall of the Kings (7U339)
(4R)Osgiliath Fallen (7U342)
(5R)City Gates (7U344)
(6R)Minas Tirith Third Circle (7U352)
(7R)Osgiliath Channel (8U120)
(8R)Morgulduin (7U358)
(9R)Dagorlad (7U360)

Fellowship (37)
1x *Gandalf's Staff (2R22)
1x *Mithril-coat (2R105)
1x *Faramir, Wizard's Pupil (7R91) Start
4x *Gandalf, The Grey Pilgrim (2P122)
1x *Merry, Friend to Sam (1R302) Start
1x *Smeagol, Slinker (5R29) Start
1x *The Tale of the Great Ring (10U116)
1x Birthday Present (10R104)
1x Escape (4R300)
4x The Shire Countryside (3R113)
1x Deep In Thought (3C30)
1x Nine-fingered Frodo and the Ring of Doom (10C112)
1x Roll of Thunder (4U99)
2x *Aragorn's Pipe (1U91)
1x *Frodo's Pipe (3U107)
2x *Gandalf's Pipe (1U74)
1x *Sting, Baggins Heirloom (5R116)
2x *The Gaffer's Pipe (1U292)
1x Gondorian Sword (7U98)
1x Hobbit Sword (1C299)
4x Longbottom Leaf (1C300)
4x Old Toby (1C305)

Shadow (37)
4x Black Breath (1U207)
4x Blade Tip (1U209)
2x His Terrible Servants (2R77)
1x Mind and Body (7R183)
3x Morgul Gates (1R217)
1x *Bill Ferny, Swarthy Sneering Fellow (2R75)
4x *The Witch-king, Lord of the Nazgul (2R85)
1x *Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul (1U231)
3x *Ulaire Enquea, Ringwraith in Twilight (2U83)
1x *Ulaire Lemenya, Lieutenant of Morgul (1U232)
3x *Ulaire Nelya, Ringwraith in Twilight (2R84)
1x *Ulaire Otsea, Lieutenant of Morgul (1U235)
1x *Ulaire Otsea, Ringwraith In Twilight (3U86)
2x Morgul Skulker (1U258)
1x *The Pale Blade (1R221)
4x Fell Beast (6U83)
1x Morgul Blade (1R216)

Deck modified 06/09/10.

Kev-La · « **Reply #1 on:** September 02, 2010, 11:30:16 PM »

Quote from: MuadDib on September 02, 2010, 10:33:31 PM

...I think 36 cards is okay, it will be paired with Frodo Signet Pipes and Foul Clutches with Fell Beast will help cycle aswell...

Looking good, MuadDib. I've found Frodo Signet Pipeweed Free Peoples seems to work well with similar Shadows I've used, so I can say I think that's definitely worth a try.

ket_the_jet · « **Reply #2 on:** September 03, 2010, 03:14:46 AM »

MD, rather than answering this in your PM, I figured it might be beneficial to list pros and cons and throw out ideas out here.

Well, my first reaction is that you could do much better with the chosen Nazgul. In a deck of this sort, I think that you can keep the minion count relatively low count of Nazgul, maybe something like this:

3x the Witch-King, Lord of the Nazgul
3x Ulaire Nelya, Ringwraith in Twilight
3x Ulaire Enquea, Ringwraith in Twilight
1x Ulaire Otsea, Ringwraith In Twilight
1x Ulaire Otsea, Lieutenant of Morgul
1x Ulaire Toldea, Wraith On Wings
3x Morgul Skulker
2x Grima, Wormtongue
1x Bill Ferny, Swarthy Sneering Fellow

That should be about perfect. You'll have at least one Nazgul every turn, you'll have a condition or two in hand, and you'll have an event or two in hand. While match-ups against Knights might not be fantastic, you can still get a copy of Black Breath or Blade Tip on a character before you are finished off with Gondor Bow and Fourth Level.

I think that Foul Clutches isn't actually really that necessary. I'd rather see All Veils Removed, or better yet, one more copy of Fell Beast and another copy of Morgul Gates.

I like the inclusion of Morgul Blade in this deck. I always thought that card had a really cool effect that wasn't often used (citing a specific card can be great).

Finally, I know I am the one that pumped up Mind and Body as a neat inclusion, but do you think that you need two? I think one copy is fine because it won't clog your hand and you won't discard it...and ruin the surprise.

I will respond to your Pipeweed deck you sent by PM because frankly, you're right...it would be terrible idea. I think the biggest problem with Pipeweed decks in general after Fellowship of the Ring block is Grima, Wormtongue or Grima, Chief Counselor and new multi-cultural hate options.
-wtk

Imrahil · « **Reply #3 on:** September 03, 2010, 07:16:11 AM »

Except that the conditions have placed all your wound prevention, which means that most wounding/archery decks are going to destroy you before you can transfer anything. It's unbelievably frustrating to have Eowyn shooting down everything in the freeps first skirmish phase action, especially with a couple black breath on the board.

ket_the_jet · « **Reply #4 on:** September 03, 2010, 07:24:23 AM »

Toss in a copy or two of His Terrible Servants. Problem solved.
-wtk

Witchkingx5 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 03, 2010, 07:28:47 AM »

Well, I'm not really sure as I don't really see the aim of your Deck. Those random Nazgul Thrown together (besides Nelya, RiT who is just awesome) won't have much success. I rather propse kets suggestion, as most of my Twilight Nazgul Decks are built simliar to this, besides Otsea and the Easterling, which I both find a bit crappy. Mind and body seems like a very solid pump first, but when you need it, you'll mostly have cards in your hand that you want to keep. I fou really want to kill someone, go with big bad nazzies, or build a more a twilight Nazzie Deck, that really resolves around RB wounding or Corrupting. His Terrible Servants also comes in my mind when I see this Deck. 4th Fell Beast of course.

Imrahil · « **Reply #6 on:** September 03, 2010, 07:29:42 AM »

Better. They can stil Rohirrim Helm you constantly, but you might get the transfer.

Cw0rk · « **Reply #7 on:** September 03, 2010, 09:28:37 AM »

I just don't see the point of using Ulaire Attea, the Easterling. Other than that, looks fun.

hrcho · « **Reply #8 on:** September 03, 2010, 09:44:26 AM »

I really don't know why are you all so against The Easterling. I like it. There are better copies of Ulaire Attea, of course, but as far as twilight nazgul go, I think the Easterling is quite ok. Wound ally is not a bad thing, but it is also strong. The strongest after The Witch King and in this kind of deck I think Ulaire Attea, the Easterling is a far better choice than Ulaire Enquea, RiT which has the same cost, but that 1 strength less is just frustrating when you face Durin bearing an axe and a ring for example.

ket_the_jet · « **Reply #9 on:** September 03, 2010, 09:49:49 AM »

...So that you can wound Thrarin, Dwarven Speedbump?

In every way, Enquea is better, including vitality which is what matters most with Twilight Nazgul...

I would take Enquea on a Fell Beast with text you could use twice over Attea on a Fell Beast who has limited application in Movie Block.

If he discarded allies, he'd be great. But as he stands, he's not.
-wtk

Imrahil · « **Reply #10 on:** September 03, 2010, 10:07:04 AM »

Yes, i am being negative. But that's probably because of negative experiences in my past using a similar deck.

And trust me, with a bouncing Merry you can see A LOT of Rohirrim Helms. Probably close to the whole six thousand that went riding off from Dunharrow.

But I graciously admit that my meta may not be the best example of the game in general.

Even so, I strongly urge you to follow ket's suggestion and toss in His Terrible Servants.

ket_the_jet · « **Reply #11 on:** September 03, 2010, 10:14:02 AM »

It's funny because it is partially my fault His Terrible Servants are not in there. MD and I have been shooting random ideas via PM for the past few days, and I said, "Mind and Body is my second favorite unused card from RotK (Greatest Stronghold is my favorite)."

Anyways, this is kind of the bastard child of our talks about Mind and Body. With playtesting, I think this would be pretty great.

If 1 strength makes the difference, run Fell Beast, Morgul Blade, Nazgul Sword, Bill Ferny, Swarthy Sneering Fellow, All Veils Removed...

...

...
-wtk

hrcho · « **Reply #12 on:** September 03, 2010, 12:21:25 PM »

I agree that with Fell Beast, Enquea beats the Easterling with Fell Beast, but without it, in a non-rb-wounding twilight nazgul deck, the Easterling is a far better choice. I actually had some very good experiences with the Easterling, thus my promotion of it (kill ally-trigger threats kind of experience).

ket_the_jet · « **Reply #13 on:** September 03, 2010, 12:27:02 PM »

So he's useful against Gondorian Merchant?

MD isn't adding threats anyways and Tower Assassin is better ally hate. I'd pick him over The Easterling 10 out of 10 times.
-wtk

ket_the_jet · « **Reply #14 on:** September 03, 2010, 12:31:00 PM »

Or Dunlending Warrior, who I think is so great.
-wtk

hrcho · « **Reply #15 on:** September 03, 2010, 01:14:30 PM »

They are far better at ally disposal, but unless they get themselves some powerful rings and carry them for a hundred years, then turn into twilight dunlending warrior nazgul or twilight tower assassin, they are of no use to MD.

The Easterling text is not as good as it should be (wound 2 allies or discard an ally would be nice), but he is a strong twilight nazgul and crippling Bounder or killing off Barliman Butterbur can help a long way.

macheteman · « **Reply #16 on:** September 03, 2010, 01:57:33 PM »

wait, ally deaths trigger threats too? how did i not know that?

MuadDib85 · « **Reply #17 on:** September 03, 2010, 05:08:42 PM »

Quote from: hrcho on September 03, 2010, 01:14:30 PM

They are far better at ally disposal, but unless they get themselves some powerful rings and carry them for a hundred years, then turn into twilight dunlending warrior nazgul or twilight tower assassin, they are of no use to MD.

legolas3333 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 03, 2010, 05:25:16 PM »

what about something like this?

Ulaire Attea, Wraith On Wings x4
Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant Of Morgul x4
Ulaire Toldea, Winged Sentry x3
Morgul Brute x4
Morgul Whelp x4
Morgul Skulker x3

Ring Of Rancor x3

Mind And Body x2

Gates Of The Dead City x4
Streaming To The Field x3

add burdens with attea/brute exert with gates of the dead city, kill with enquea, finish off everyone else with mind and body.

MuadDib85 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 03, 2010, 05:29:26 PM »

L3333 That looks good but I don't want any morcs either.

Ulaire Lemenya, Lieutenant of Morgul...

No one else likes him? I think he would be neat in this deck.

I have taken everyone's suggestions on board and am going to change the deck a little soon.. Thanks alot!

hrcho · « **Reply #20 on:** September 03, 2010, 06:30:35 PM »

Ulaire Lemenya, Lieutenant of Morgul is a great card for this type of deck. I have a deck revolving around it and

conditions, though it has some enduring nazzies and Black Dart which are from sets 8 and 10. I even added 2 copies of Grima, Son of Galmod to spice things up a bit and used him just because no one else uses him, but soon switched him for Wormtongue for obvious reasons.

Anyway, how about Gollum, DaD? He's universal, pretty much the most versatile card there is and he can help a lot if you go the RB wound way, not to mention add some twilight from burdens that are most likely to be there once Lord of the Nazgul on Fell Beast appears.

Witchkingx5 · « **Reply #21 on:** September 04, 2010, 03:51:36 AM »

I like Ulaire Lemenya, Lieutenant of Morgul cus' he's a Nazgul, but still, if you want to build a Deck around him, don't use Twilight Nazzies. He's great, Twilight Nazzies are great, but I don't think making a hybrid Deck with those two strategies is very efficient.

MuadDib85 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 04, 2010, 03:54:27 AM »

Why not?

Witchkingx5 · « **Reply #23 on:** September 04, 2010, 04:10:29 AM »

Twilight Nazgul: Corruption, RB wounding
Ulaire Lemenya, Lieutenant of Morgul: beatdown

you could actually add one or two Lemenyas to this Deck, but the more Splash cards you add, the more insecure will the chance be to draw the right cards at the right time, and as you already split the Shadow side's strategy up in your original post, I'd concentrate the effort more on either theme of the Deck.

EDIT: Congrats to your 2000th post Lego!

Imrahil · « **Reply #24 on:** September 04, 2010, 05:48:51 PM »

forgive me for being an idiot, but I don't think Lego's deck actually has the conditions to make Mind and Body work. :-) Oops.

I playtested a similar deck today (Mind and Body with first-set powerguls), and got destroyed by the seventh set Smeagol and Don't Look at Them. I believe I will now try the deck as it's made here and see if it does better.

MuadDib85 · « **Reply #25 on:** September 04, 2010, 05:53:30 PM »

Yeah, I noticed that. Not sure if L3333 meant his deck list plus Blade Tip and Black Breath, I assume so, if not Mind and Body is not needed at all in that deck..

MuadDib85 · « **Reply #26 on:** September 05, 2010, 02:05:40 AM »

Updated decklist in the original post. Thanks for all the suggestions.

I'll try and test it soon.

It is more focused on twilight nazgul now. Thoughts?

Edit: Added a fellowship to go with the shadow.

Edit2: Just played this and was chewed to bits by beseigers. Bad matchup for a pipeweed fellowship. Maybe Roll of Thunder and Sleep Caradhras would help, although with one more twilight (to play Mind and Body) I would have won the game before dying...

Considering starting Merry and Faramir instead and adding 4x Gandalf. That would free up two spots for the events mentioned above..

ket_the_jet · « **Reply #27 on:** September 05, 2010, 07:12:03 AM »

I kind of think 38/38 is too big. What about dropping Escape and Fireworks on the Freeps side and then making your suggested changes (Roll of Thunder and Deep in Thought)? You could cut the Easterling and one of the other Nazgul support cards to get it to 36/36.

Also, just a thought, why not Faramir, Wizard's Pupil?
-wtk

hrcho · « **Reply #28 on:** September 05, 2010, 07:32:22 AM »

In our game I thought it was bad luck you didn't pull NFFATROD, but now I see you don't have any. I think it would really help. Skirmish healing would allow you to use Gandalf's Staff and Merry much more effectively.

Elessar's Socks · « **Reply #29 on:** September 05, 2010, 10:51:10 AM »

Just my opinion here, but Mind and Body seems like a win-more card. Even though taking down three other companions in one play would be spectacular, I'm thinking at that point you probably didn't need it. Maybe as an alternate build, splashing one in Threatguls running BB/BT wouldn't sacrifice too much power, while keeping the coup de grace.

TheJord · « **Reply #30 on:** September 05, 2010, 02:26:34 PM »

In Standard, you could get this to work with Ulaire Nelya, Fell Rider and Shadowy Mount

MuadDib85 · « **Reply #31 on:** September 05, 2010, 07:13:44 PM »

Quote from: hrcho on September 05, 2010, 07:32:22 AM

In our game I thought it was bad luck you didn't pull NFFATROD, but now I see you don't have any. I think it would really help. Skirmish healing would allow you to use Gandalf's Staff and Merry much more effectively.

NFFATROD will find a place. Not drawing Gandalf's Pipe at all didn't help either.. Besides that, for a first play I was very happy in general with the way things went for both fellowship and shadow.

Maybe a fourth Witch-King or third Morgul Skulker will find a place too. Lord of The Nazgul on Fell Beast is great fun!

Edit: After a game I have modified the deck again in the original post. I will test it like this and see how it goes.. Seems like a good deck for Wizard's Pupil.. Although Troll of Cirith Gorgor

.

MuadDib85 · « **Reply #32 on:** September 06, 2010, 03:24:46 AM »

Just played a game with this and won with Site 3 shadow kill.

A few more games and I'll begin trying to foil it.

Witchkingx5 · « **Reply #33 on:** September 06, 2010, 11:20:48 AM »

Fourth Witch-King? That's good news!

How was the Shadow kill? I guess there was a Ulaire Nelya, RiT involved?

ket_the_jet · « **Reply #34 on:** September 06, 2010, 11:35:07 AM »

I kind of think Gollum, Dark as Darkness would be a better splash than Bill Ferny, Swarthy Sneering Fellow. With all the Ring-Bearer wounding, you are bound to get burdens which can turn into twilight. And who knows? You might end the game with his regroup action.
-wtk

Witchkingx5 · « **Reply #35 on:** September 06, 2010, 11:40:08 AM »

Even more good news, the Deck seems to go in the right direction... I think I might netdeck this one to have a fourth Twilight Nazgul Deck..

MuadDib85 · « **Reply #36 on:** September 06, 2010, 04:55:28 PM »

Quote from: Witchkingx5 on September 06, 2010, 11:20:48 AM

Fourth Witch-King? That's good news!

How was the Shadow kill? I guess there was a Ulaire Nelya, RiT involved?

Nah, Lord of The Nazgul on Fell Beast against Gimli, BoG with SAWTC. One fierce Witch-King = 5 burdens.

Gil-Estel · « **Reply #37 on:** September 07, 2010, 03:34:24 AM »

Muad, LOVE your deck. I really am a fan of pipeweed decks, only thing I can comment on is the date you have updated it. It isn't november yet

ket_the_jet · « **Reply #38 on:** September 07, 2010, 04:55:18 AM »

Haha...the Freeps is 90% yours, Heije!

Though I still think Faramir, Wizard's Pupil would be more fun for Movie...
-wtk

MuadDib85 · « **Reply #39 on:** September 07, 2010, 07:20:07 PM »

Quote from: Gil-Estel on September 07, 2010, 03:34:24 AM

It isn't november yet

Please forgive my error. Fixed.

Quote from: ket_the_jet on September 07, 2010, 04:55:18 AM

Though I still think Faramir, Wizard's Pupil would be more fun for Movie...

He's in already.

Imrahil · « **Reply #40 on:** September 13, 2010, 07:57:53 PM »

I played a game with the deck and I agree with Socks. If you manage to pull off a devastating Mind and Body with this deck than you've already won the game. In order to make a dedicated MaB deck, you need Nazgul conditions that can be played on any companion rather than transferred. I think it would be a great card for a Forestgul variant.

MuadDib85 · « **Reply #41 on:** September 13, 2010, 08:25:56 PM »

Quote from: Imrahil on September 13, 2010, 07:57:53 PM

I played a game with the deck and I agree with Socks. If you manage to pull off a devastating Mind and Body with this deck than you've already won the game.

Did you win? Did you have fun playing it?

I don't know about you but I am trying to win the game when I play and also have fun, whether mind and body is actually used or even drawn doesn't matter to me. I wanted to use a card that does not get used and found a good way to do it in movie block. If it does work and kills 2, 3 or 4 comps at once that would be sweet.

A forestgul variant would be nice, but not as nice because those Lost In The Woods would not be foils.. Which is the other main reason for this deck, to foil it.

In my opinion the single worst thing about Shadows and onward is the lack of common/uncommon foils.

hrcho · « **Reply #42 on:** September 14, 2010, 02:32:36 AM »

I just recently won with my Mind and Body deck (which is quite different from this one) using Mind and Body in probably the best fashion possible.

3 companions were left: Frodo, Sam and Merry. Frodo and Sam bore

conditions and were exhausted while Merry had 1 wound. There were 5 burdens on Frodo. I played Shotgun Enquea and during maneuver phase I killed Merry with his ability and played Mind and Body to kill Frodo and Sam. It was wonderful!