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January 22, 2011, 11:34:05 AM
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Kralik

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The PC isn't dead...
« on: January 22, 2011, 11:34:05 AM »
...because it never actually lived.

Years have been spent wasted on talking arguing over the merits of "PC or no PC?" In the end, the result has been lots of talk, little action. To put it another way, all bark, no bite. Supposedly there is a "PC Website" up, but in a year it is still a mess of broken links and bad templates. Emails have been sent to Decipher but no headway has been made. Some people want change and some people don't. Some people still play and others left long ago. And on and on it goes. A notable exception to this is Tbiesty's work on an Unofficial Rulebook, which I hope we can use.

Why has the PC failed?

  • Lack of Official Sanction: We are all waiting for that magic day when Decipher says, "Good job, TLHH! We'll be more than happy to hand you the necessary licenses and support a LotR PC!" That day will never come. It came for SWCCG, perhaps, but that was before Decipher was crushed by financial scandal and became a company struggling to survive. The best thing I think we can hope for is that Decipher tolerates this site's existence. Any more would be pushing it.
  • Lack of Leadership: Supposedly the committee should have a head, but who has ever agreed on who that head should be? Some people who may have been well qualified have joined TLHH from the outside, but couldn't get a real following because they were new to the community. And... not approved by Decipher.
  • Incessant Quibbling: Errata or no errata? X-list or no X-list? Virtual cards or not? Official or not? So it goes.

What needs to be done differently?

I propose that we do not necessarily need a "committee," but that we focus on building the LotR community or players group. We could still use leadership, but in the meantime:

Forget about being "THE" official PC.

We have a little section of the internet here, a platform that we like to use (GCCG) and a few hundred people. Why worry about "controlling" LotR at-large when we can come to some agreements about how we want to play? We can make a set of TLHHouse Rules. If you play a game in real life and you want to go by TLHH Rules -- great! If not -- great! Play the game and enjoy it either way!

I remember when I was first playing LotR, I had no idea about errata. My friends and I played the way we thought we should. And even when we heard about the official X-list (ruining TS with bans on NSttS and HttWC for example), we just ignored it. :P If we establish a TLHH/GCCG players group, my hope is that TLHH members will be happy to play with the house rules. But if a TLHH member plays with a non-TLHH member? Fall back to the official format.

That being said, I think that now that we are hosting GCCG, we have lots of opportunities available to us. We have an official platform for TLHH play! GCCG gives the opportunity to use:

  • Custom Formats: We've already seen this with the addition of a much-loved old format, Towers Standard, and a custom format, Pre-Shadows Multipath. I've heard players want to bring back "War of the Ring Standard" -- sets 4-13. We can do it! Changes to the R- or X-list? We can do it! The deck check takes care of the details.
  • Errata: Errata is easy in GCCG. Press CTRL+H on a card and you will see its official text.
  • Virtual Cards: We can easily add text-based virtual cards, and there may even be a way to have a card's new text overlay the official image so that no images are changed. As SW has done, we could take old cards and make improved, virtual versions. Say, Lightfootedness (V). Players could choose which one they want to play.
  • Dream Sets!: Just the same! If we make the cards ourselves and respect copyright, we could add our own dream sets and actually play with them! At the very least, we have a text-based option.

Organization ideas:

I think instead of having a "ruling committee," that it would be better to create small teams to facilitate design and discussion. Then, leave the final decision to the rest of the GCCG players themselves. Notice that when Thran, for example, creates dream cards in the Chamber of Marzabul, he takes feedback from the players and revises his original ideas? This is the process we want to see. I suggest something along the lines of:

  • Movie Head: Person to help finalize Movie-Block based decisions (sets 1-10).
  • Standard Head: Person to help finalize Standard based decisions (sets 7-19).
  • Tournament Director: Person to organize contests and tournaments on GCCG.
  • Deck Designer: Person to organize deck building contests and prizes.
  • Rules Team: Group of 5-10 players to initiate new discussions on possible rules changes and consider community feedback.
  • Dream Team: Group of 5-10 players to design the text of virtual cards and text or custom graphics of dream cards.

But that's just a quick sketch. Why do we need anything set in stone before we start? Start sharing some ideas and let's see what we can do about them!

January 22, 2011, 11:48:04 AM
Reply #1

Kenddrick

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Re: The PC isn't dead...
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2011, 11:48:04 AM »
Agreed Kralik. But I would like to state that the reason the "PC website" is a mess of broken links/templates is due to me being incapable of coding and not knowing what to put into it.

You guys don't know how happy I am that Kralik has started "our own PC"! :D
« Last Edit: January 22, 2011, 11:50:12 AM by Kenddrick »

January 22, 2011, 11:57:46 AM
Reply #2

hrcho

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Re: The PC isn't dead...
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2011, 11:57:46 AM »
Nicely said, Kralik. I too prefer that this be more of a community than a committee (wow, first time I used this word, it looks weird). As far as House Rules are concerned, we can continue Tbiesty's work on an Unofficial Rulebook and make it our House Rules. Notify us when it's free to start topics in The Straight Road (I hope any gay people who might be part of TLHH don't mind the name of the section ;))
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January 22, 2011, 12:05:00 PM
Reply #3

Kralik

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Re: The PC isn't dead...
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2011, 12:05:00 PM »
I don't mind the idea of a players group to moderate tournaments on GCCG and work prize support, but I am still rather against the idea of having a "player's committee."

Don't Bring Me Down! I'm not really thinking of a committee. It would be helpful a select team of skilled designers to make new cards, but the GCCG players should have the final say.

hrcho: more info on The Straight Road.

January 22, 2011, 12:43:10 PM
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jdizzy001

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Re: The PC isn't dead...
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2011, 12:43:10 PM »
As far as House Rules are concerned, we can continue Tbiesty's work on an Unofficial Rulebook and make it our House Rules.

You mean The Last Homely Houes Rules ;)
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January 22, 2011, 07:29:26 PM
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Cw0rk

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Re: The PC isn't dead...
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2011, 07:29:26 PM »
I think that the main goal here should be to keep active GCCG players that we currently have and find ways to get more former LOTRTCG players to play GCCG.

January 22, 2011, 09:54:35 PM
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Gate Troll

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Re: The PC isn't dead...
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2011, 09:54:35 PM »
How about just keeping an active community? By the changes and little novelties Kralik has implemented around here, I can tell he's committed to keeping TLHH alive, and I think all we need is some sort of semi-official way of making decisions. Online playing is the future, unless Decipher buys rights to the Hobbit. :D

January 23, 2011, 06:46:03 AM
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Thranduil

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Re: The PC isn't dead...
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2011, 06:46:03 AM »
I would volunteer to be on the designer team, if I thought that this is what needed doing now. I love designing cards (which I think pretty much everyone around here knows!) but I honestly don't think we should run headlong into design.

Start with Tbiesty's unoffocial rulebook, expand on it, make erratas, run a database of updated and clarified rules text (like MTG Oracle), run tournaments and play the game. These are the things that need to happen now.

I can't run GCCG (I tried once and failed on my mac) and I don't have a player's group so unfortunately I can't help with the tournament side, which I think is undoubtedly the most important.

But, I know a fair bit about rules, design and development, so I would definitely want to work for the Rules Team. (If we eventually get to VCs or DCs, then of course I will want to help there too! ;) ).

Thranduil

January 23, 2011, 07:10:46 AM
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Kralik

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Re: The PC isn't dead...
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2011, 07:10:46 AM »
I can't run GCCG (I tried once and failed on my mac) and I don't have a player's group so unfortunately I can't help with the tournament side, which I think is undoubtedly the most important.

ket and a few others have succeeded on the Mac -- maybe you can give it another go?

January 23, 2011, 08:36:44 AM
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TheJord

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Re: The PC isn't dead...
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2011, 08:36:44 AM »
I'm in
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January 23, 2011, 09:29:14 AM
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Elessar's Socks

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Re: The PC isn't dead...
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2011, 09:29:14 AM »
:gp: for laying it all out, Kralik. Agreed on not waiting for Decipher to save the day; we can't force players to like a game if they feel it's gotten stale.

That said, I'm not seeing the distinction that's being made between a committee and a group. Seems that either way, we'd still have a structure where some entity makes final decisions for others--even if it's the Movie Head plus half the GCCG players against the rest of the GCCG players.

Unless this project becomes a repository of ideas? As in, anyone who wants to start a game/tournament can select which rulebook to use and which sets to include. The array of options can get a bit crazy, but that's where the benefits of online integration (automated deck checks, errata that are automatically displayed, etc.) come in.

January 23, 2011, 09:39:14 AM
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Kralik

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Re: The PC isn't dead...
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2011, 09:39:14 AM »
Perhaps it is a fine distinction. When I think of committee, I imagine a small group of people making all of the decisions. While I still think we should have some leadership, I envision the rules/designs teams facilitating discussion and leaving the final decisions to the GCCG players as a whole.

January 23, 2011, 10:11:44 AM
Reply #12

Kenddrick

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Re: The PC isn't dead...
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2011, 10:11:44 AM »
I'm in as well.

I don't know much, I can write articles and design a bit of cards, that's all. :(

January 23, 2011, 12:50:42 PM
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Kralik

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Re: The PC isn't dead...
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2011, 12:50:42 PM »
Nun-Hunters Multipath--is that sets 4-14?

I'd like to get a bit more feedback on the general idea and then I'll start some topics in the other subforums to kick things off.

January 24, 2011, 02:23:07 AM
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Gil-Estel

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Re: The PC isn't dead...
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2011, 02:23:07 AM »
Nun-Hunters Multipath--is that sets 4-14?

I'd like to get a bit more feedback on the general idea and then I'll start some topics in the other subforums to kick things off.

I guess that is pre-hunters standard. 4-13. Correct me if I'm wrong
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