Author Topic: Time for some more interaction! [Feedback Requested] (Read 7125 times)

Kralik · « **on:** February 12, 2011, 10:36:34 PM »

Next up on the docket: Conversion of the card database!

Right now I am manually generating the HTML pages from an excel spreadsheet using a script I wrote. I intend to convert these to a MySQL database and then.... drumroll please....

drmdrmdrmdrmdrmdrmdrmdrmdrmdrmdrmdrm...

The card database will be turned into a wiki!

I would like to generate a standard template for each card and then let the details be filled in by TLHH members and players. Only TLHH members will be able to edit the pages, and it will be integrated with the forums. What sorts of things should we see? So far I'm thinking of...

--Links to sample decks
--Strategy discussion
--Rules discussion/clarification
--Links to other similar/helpful combo cards
--Links to other versions (in the cases of unique cards)
etc.

Help me brainstorm and then we'll put it all together!

Gil-Estel · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2011, 03:12:58 AM »

Nice...I call Lost to the Goblins!

MuadDib85 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 13, 2011, 05:28:44 AM »

Good idea.

I will contribute some thoughts on certain cards. It would be good to see what everyone thinks about each card.

Legolis · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2011, 05:29:52 AM »

This sounds cool!

Kralik · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2011, 07:45:12 AM »

So since I have to mass-generate the initial template, any ideas on what it should contain other than my few thoughts up there?

hrcho · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2011, 08:18:12 AM »

As decks and cards are best evaluated through gameplay, so will we best know what LotR TCG Wiki would need added or removed through its usage. Set it up with those ideas you presented as those are the most important stuff and let people use it for a while and provide feedback.

Kralik · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2011, 08:30:39 AM »

I'm not asking about details of specific cards, but general categories of things to put in the overall template. Remember, I have to make a template (skeletal structure) for 3500 cards and I want it to look nice.

ramolnar · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2011, 08:53:37 AM »

Please put the "important" stuff at the top of the template: Other versions; Banned/Restricted notes; Clarifications and errata. That's the most important.
After that, I would just leave a section for Strategy, then a section for Sample Decklists. Some cards will wind up with nothing here, and that's fine. Lost to the Goblins, Corsair Marauder, and other strong cards will be filled in.

Kralik · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2011, 09:14:40 AM »

All that they have already will stay. They do currently include clarifications/errata/X-R-lists.

Jaedayr · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2011, 09:58:30 AM »

From a beginners perspective, I think it is fairly easy to understand single cards and what they do, but the true measure of a lot of cards seems to be how well they work with others. This kinda touches on combos that you mentioned but could also include how to deal with the cards being played against you.

What about a card rating? 1 to 5 stars, members can rate them and the overall average would be displayed to give an idea of how good the card is.

FM · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2011, 04:29:26 PM »

Decks might pose a problem, as were would we take those from? Winners from the Leagues? I strongly advise against pulling them from Lothlorien, unless a massive number of players can attest their effectiveness.

Witchkingx5 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 14, 2011, 05:39:16 AM »

I'm waiting to see to wiki for Men of Harad:

Restrictions: None.
Use: See above.

still like the idea and will surely help building the wiki.

rubbercarp · « **Reply #12 on:** February 15, 2011, 11:13:22 AM »

Quote from: Witchkingx5 on February 14, 2011, 05:39:16 AM

I'm waiting to see to wiki for Men of Harad:

Restrictions: None.
Use: See above.

still like the idea and will surely help building the wiki.

LOL

Kralik · « **Reply #13 on:** February 29, 2012, 02:12:42 PM »

I've laid the groundwork and started a basic template with 1R1. Please look it over and help me decide what else to add so that we can standardize it for each card. Once it's done, it's pretty much set, so choose carefully!

NOTE: The page above may break or spontaneously combust as I fiddle with it.

TelTura · « **Reply #14 on:** February 29, 2012, 04:35:56 PM »

I think the Decks and Effective Combos should be two different sections...one dealing with "good strategies this card does well as a part of" and the other "specific cards this plays well with". They're related, but I think a division is in order.

Kralik · « **Reply #15 on:** February 29, 2012, 05:35:59 PM »

Quote from: TelTura on February 29, 2012, 04:35:56 PM

I think the Decks and Effective Combos should be two different sections...one dealing with "good strategies this card does well as a part of" and the other "specific cards this plays well with". They're related, but I think a division is in order.

Got it.

TelTura · « **Reply #16 on:** February 29, 2012, 05:46:23 PM »

Perhaps (and this may be covered by the "other links" section) there can be a sort of cross-reference to different relevant sections of the official rulebooks. For instance, on followers there could be a line that says "See also: Aid" and for the example of 1R1, we could have "See also: Ring-bearer, Ring-bound, The One Ring (card type), Alternate Ring Bearers", etc.

In fact, it may be a good idea to have a wikified version of the different set guidebooks for such a feature as this. I for one would be willing to help translate the guidebooks, plural, into a wiki version.

Kralik · « **Reply #17 on:** March 01, 2012, 06:26:00 AM »

What I would probably do is get a card wiki working first, and then a separate wiki for rules and such if needed.

Elessar's Socks · « **Reply #18 on:** March 01, 2012, 08:29:06 AM »

Long time no see!

Not wikis, but here are card entries for MTG and ST1E for any similar ideas on what to include.

Maybe any unofficial rulings, if listed, can be hammered out using a more formalized procedure like what was done in the CRD Discussion forum. Not sure about linking to just any old discussion though, as thoughts may have changed over time, and possibly be misleading as "evidence" of someone's view.

TelTura · « **Reply #19 on:** March 01, 2012, 08:36:15 AM »

I like how the MtG site has a section for Legal Blocks and how the ST site shows "aliases" of the card. I think our wiki could do with both sections.

[edit:] If we shift the example case to 1C2, the aliases section could do with I think two subsections; the first "Aliases", which link to 1R1, 4R1, 7R2, etc, and a "Reprints" section, which would link to 4C2, 7C1, etc.

Kralik · « **Reply #20 on:** March 01, 2012, 01:44:26 PM »

Each of the 3500+ pages will have to be individually created, by means of a script. So what I'm looking for is a general template that will work for ALL cards. If there is a section for "Aliases/Reprints," it would only be filled for some. Something more generic would be best.

TelTura · « **Reply #21 on:** March 02, 2012, 12:58:51 AM »

What language are you using? you could do a pass that first compiles a list of the cards and searches for dupes (assuming you don't have an easily read format beforehand). It seems like a candidate for automation, regardless of if you do it now or not.

(also the "legal blocks" section is applicable to all cards, dunno if you missed that or not in my last post)

It also occurs to me that there could be a "next card" and "previous card" column near the bottom, each having a respective link and image of the next/previous card in sequence. Also, and I don't know how difficult this would be to implement (and if it's even relevant at this stage of planning), but if the card-image-hover could be implemented like we have in the forum that would be fantastic.

Kralik · « **Reply #22 on:** March 02, 2012, 09:12:07 AM »

The card popups requires some javascript calls, which would not be available in a user-editable wiki. As far as legal blocks -- is it really necessary per card when we already have easy definitions of each block? I'll think about the alternate versions of cards, but when it comes down to it, I won't necessarily have the time to make a robust script to handle it. Since it's a wiki, it can always be added later by users. I'll planning on making a thumbnails folder for the card images so that would help with linking.

TelTura · « **Reply #23 on:** March 02, 2012, 09:21:47 AM »

Quote

As far as legal blocks -- is it really necessary per card when we already have easy definitions of each block?

Most of the info you already have listed is stuff that could be found elsewhere with a bit of digging...the point of a wiki would be to throw everything you might possibly need to know about each card on a single page, wouldn't it? I think that's relevant information if you're looking for all the uses of a particular card; "oh, i can use it with X and Y to completely shut down Z....except it's banned in movie block. oh well."

sucks about the hover-over code; that's really grown on me and I could see it being useful in a database such as this. oh well.

Kralik · « **Reply #24 on:** March 02, 2012, 09:28:23 AM »

The X- and R-list information is already on each card's page.

TelTura · « **Reply #25 on:** March 02, 2012, 09:40:38 AM »

Herp, derp. I was only looking at the wiki section beneath and completely forgot there was a section with "official" info up top. Guess that's taken care of, then.

Although...it might still be a decent idea to move that info down into the wiki section (or just make that section wikifiable) so when errors are found they can be fixed without an admin doing it. Also, when there is a block limit, it's listed as "Lists: EXL, MXL" which is not very clear to people not intimately familiar with the game (and who we would hope to be approachable to). Having a list that says "Expanded: X-listed Movie: X-listed Fellowship: Allowed" or something like that would be a bit more clear.

Kralik · « **Reply #26 on:** March 10, 2012, 09:33:03 AM »

Does anyone check this section of the forum? Seems quiet in here.

I'm going to roll out a sample template and put it on each individual card page. Keep the feedback coming and it will soon be finalized. I'll also look into a way to add "alternate versions" of cards to the database.

TelTura · « **Reply #27 on:** March 10, 2012, 09:36:07 AM »

same problem as always; people respond mostly to topics they've subscribed to and don't crawl the different forums for new topics/posts.

Kralik · « **Reply #28 on:** March 10, 2012, 10:11:53 AM »

I would think a link on each of the card pages would get people's attention. Then again, those pages had been down for two weeks prior.

New sample up and on each page! Let's hear some more feedback before I roll it out as the starting template. Once it is up, I will link the wiki to your forum login, so each forum member can edit it.

TelTura · « **Reply #29 on:** March 10, 2012, 10:14:04 AM »

Looks good. So long as it's flexible enough that members could add sections, I think it's good enough as-is. Just get it up and let us get to editin'!

Kralik · « **Reply #30 on:** March 10, 2012, 10:16:31 AM »

My plan is to allow members to add subsections only, but not edit (or delete!) the entire page. This is to ensure a uniform layout for the database as a whole. Hence the reason I want to hammer out grand categories first.

Since the wiki software I'm using stores its data in simple text files, it would be easy to add another category later with a parsing script if need be.

jdizzy001 · « **Reply #31 on:** March 15, 2012, 11:55:50 AM »

The samples look amazing Kralik! My situation is very similar to Ket's I will contribute when possible, but I too am very in-and-out as of late. The ability to add card strategies will vastly improve the card database. Again, this is a stellar idea, and preliminary implementation looks great!

Panch · « **Reply #32 on:** March 22, 2012, 12:09:59 AM »

This looks great and the samples do look amazing. I am very pumped.

Kralik · « **Reply #33 on:** March 22, 2012, 08:03:05 AM »

I was hoping to give as much time as possible for feedback before I roll it out. Since there aren't (m)any objections, I'll be starting on that shortly. I'll be on a trip next week, but I expect in a couple weekends it should be ready. The tricky part is integrating the forum's login database.

I've read about a couple of other wikis that have had sabotage problems. We'll need some sort of system to deal with that if it happens.

TelTura · « **Reply #34 on:** March 22, 2012, 09:27:14 AM »

Just keep a history of all the changes made and give mods/admins rollback abilities. Just like any regular wiki.

TelTura · « **Reply #35 on:** April 04, 2012, 02:50:23 PM »

So when is this going live? I recently got a job that gives me free time in 30-40 minute blocks with nothing to do and this would be perfect for me to work on. I've spent it thus far by compiling deck ideas in Lothlorien into files, but this I think would be good as well.

If it's coding work that needs done, let me know; I'm proficient in apps programming with c/c++, c# and python; I could learn PHP or whatever you're using if it would help (like I said, lots of free time with this job).

Kralik · « **Reply #36 on:** April 08, 2012, 09:59:12 AM »

Life was catching up with me -- sorry about the wait.

Really all that needs to be done is install/tweak the SMF authentication bridge. Generating the starting wiki pages is fairly trivial, and the basic template and integration into the card pages is already done. Should be soon.

Kralik · « **Reply #37 on:** April 18, 2012, 09:44:30 AM »

Getting close! I finally have had time to work on this -- should be ready sometime today.

TelTura · « **Reply #38 on:** April 18, 2012, 09:51:17 AM »

awesome! i'll be sure to jump on it soon as it is.

Kralik · « **Reply #39 on:** April 18, 2012, 10:43:24 AM »

It's up! Feel free to start editing a few cards here and there, and let me know how/if it works!

Note that you need to have at least 25 forum posts ("Orc" level) to edit the wiki.

Author Topic: Time for some more interaction! [Feedback Requested] (Read 7125 times)

Kralik

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Jaedayr

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