Preliminary Discussion: Lady Redeemed

[Smeagollum]

In that case count me out of lotr. Because you are screwin up the game.

[Jerba]

In that case count me out of lotr. Because you are screwin up the game.

No, the game is screwed by crappy DECIPHER made cards. Efforts are being made to salvage it. This discussion has no bearing on official Decipher formats, which you are free to continue playing.

If you continue playing GLR, whether she is banned or not, people won't want to play you anyhow. Threats about your personal play habits are not going to deter this discussion. Temper tantrums about this are only making this discussion uncivil.

[TheJord]

Typical women, causing trouble.

The pool of cards for Movie block is well over 1500 cards. This one card is enough to make you stop playing LOTR TCG?

[plnp123]

It seems that the thing that Jerba said would happen. people wont play against those who use LR. And they may stay  isolated since the vote now is on a clear trend against her.

The pro group said that it enhanced creativity by making other players find a way to circumvent her danger. I think that it is exactly the opposite. /You are forced to kill some types of decks that wont survive at all.
Some other say that Saruman's power  also kills decks. well true but its a 2-cost one-tiem event. Even then it also kills the Shadow player's support area. You cant use SP on may kinds of decks. On the FP side, Gandy kills shadows a lot too. But a cost event or plus one exert is expensive enough.  Even Deep in Thought isnt usable  right away.

The points of Witchkingx5  are very true indeed. I think that people that only use LR would be able to kill movie format. I know some of the people in the pro group use other kind of decks. But many others seem to stay with a kind of "certain win" deck. And that for sure closes a lot of doors.

The whole point of this new subforum is to create a new format in which most people agree. Even the we can make new erratas like the ones suggested earlier (double exertion, cultural support, cost increase). But the short term solution is a ban. then we can start a new discussion wether it was good bad or if a errata is better.

[jcb213]

I totally agree that Galadriel, LR is a terrible card that should never have been printed, and if the majority of the community votes to ban her on GCCG I'm fine with that.

But, I would like to correct some misconceptions that are out there:
1. Galadriel, LR was not banned almost immediately after she was printed.  After Mt. Doom came out it took 2 updates to the x-list for her to be banned.  She was legal at worlds that year, and when Shadows came out and there was a major update to the x-list (including cards like Dauntless Hunter and Sam SoH) she wasn't on it yet.  She wasn't banned until the next x-list update and she was legal for tournament play for 6-8 months.  I played in 3 or 4 events after Shadows came out that she was still legal for.  This doesn't make her any less broken, but she was NOT banned immediately.

2.  Galadriel, LR didn't dominate when she was legal.  At the worlds where she was legal she was only in 4 of the top 16 decks.  She was in the winning deck, but only for the final confrontation between the winner and runner-up; Emir hadn't played her on any previous day and she was largely a meta call because he was extremely confident that Josh would play his besieger deck from the previous 2 days.  She was definitely good, but it took people a while to realize just how good she was and once they did she got banned so even when she was around she wasn't the only competitive choice.  Man-Elf and Knights were both as good as Elves at worlds that year (man-elf was a lot more heavily played) and Gandalf Gondor was as good as elves once Shadows came out.


I guess I have a totally different perspective from most people on here, because I will always view Movie Block as "LOTR Worlds 2004" and since she was legal then I'm happy to let her be legal now.  I think most people on here don't associate Movie Block so strongly with that worlds or that meta.  I don't like playing Elves, but I do like playing other random decks with LR in them.  I think if you ban her you remove some competitive Free Peoples options in order to allow more competitive Shadow options, which is a fine trade-off.  I will be entertained if people start calling for a ban to Corsair cards next.  Saying "people on GCCG don't play Corsairs" is the same as saying "we have a gentleman's agreement to not play LR," it does nothing to bind anyone to anything.

[Kralik]

This has been a good discussion with vocal opinions and arguments on both sides -- keep it up!

[Witchkingx5]

Well, Lady Redeemed is kinda Tarmogoyf or Aether Vial that wasn't discovered immediately, but still, even if the card goes under the radar for the first couple of weeks, the power of the card itself, doesn't decrease.

Even though some of you do not play or hate MtG, it's the longest living TCG. And it's history shows what happened when overpowered cards took over the Format. The best example is the situation a couple of months ago.

A whole Format, Legacy, where over 15 thousand, yes, 15 thousand cards can be used was defined by the card Survival of the Fittest. This card is just ridiculously overpowered, and when I say that, I really mean it. The whole Format, consisting of over 15'000 cards was defined by Decks that a) either used Survival (about 60% or so) or Decks that tried to beat Survival (just try, because the card is so good).

Now, imagine that we would officially allow LR in Movie Format. In Movie, you "only" have like 1700 cards or so, and in LotR, there is no Sideboard. So each Deck should pack in a  Splash and Terrible and Evil to kill Galadriel or play a Deck that doesn't rely on Conditions or Possesions and isn't affected by random anti-cards the Elven player can play like Stand against Darkness because he can cycle them easily.

So, to sum up the whole thing: Do you want this? Do you want a Lady Redeemed Format instead of a Movie Format? DO you either want to take the anger of some random dudes complaining they can't play with their overpowered and unfair Decks anymore or have a Format everyone can enjoy because they can play a Format they're used to in a fun and fair way? It's on you to choose.

[MR. Lurtzy]

Now, imagine that we would officially allow LR in Movie Format.

Nah man. She's allowed in movie and that you will never change. What this discussion is all for is the TLHH format.

[jcb213]

How do most people view Movie Block?  Does anyone besides me view it as "LOTR Worlds 2004?"

Is there the same outcry to ban cards like Aragorn, HTTWC and Saruman, KoI in Fellowship block, because they are as broken as Galadriel, LR (Saruman, KoI probably moreso), they totally warp Fellowship block, and they totally warped the environment when they first came out.

Note - I don't want to start a discussion of Fellowship Block here, I'm just using a comparable example from that format.  I'm more curious how people view Move Block in general.

[Witchkingx5]

Now, imagine that we would officially allow LR in Movie Format.

Nah man. She's allowed in movie and that you will never change. What this discussion is all for is the TLHH format.

I meant that we make a s*** on the gentlemans' agreement. Or if we would organize tournaments on GCCG, like a Movie Block League.

[ramolnar]

How do most people view Movie Block?  Does anyone besides me view it as "LOTR Worlds 2004?"

Is there the same outcry to ban cards like Aragorn, HTTWC and Saruman, KoI in Fellowship block, because they are as broken as Galadriel, LR (Saruman, KoI probably moreso), they totally warp Fellowship block, and they totally warped the environment when they first came out.

Note - I don't want to start a discussion of Fellowship Block here, I'm just using a comparable example from that format.  I'm more curious how people view Move Block in general.

To answer your question, I don't think of Movie Block as Worlds 2004. There wasn't much development time after Mount Doom's release. Mount Doom released on July 14. Worlds were 5 weeks later. Since then, there have been years of development time, even though the number of players is smaller.
I played in Worlds 2004, so I remember it a little. I played a fun deck that had Mumaks, and I think the FP was Knights. It went 3-5. I had the best .hack deck for Saturday and Sunday, so I was playing for fun on Friday. I played Emir in Round 1 and got corrupted by Ninja Gollum. If I was playing Galadriel LR, it would have been a lot better matchup.

The question to me is the following: "Is this card so strong that in order to be competitive in a serious tournament, I need to play it or hate against it?" Galadriel LR meets that standard for me.
To answer your question about Fellowship Block, I would answer Yes to Saruman, Keeper of Isengard, because with him Uruks are by far the best Shadow. I would also answer Yes to Horn of Boromir, actually, because I know I splashed Such a Little Thing at times. But not Aragorn Heir to the White City, because there are other ways to do choke and that takes away Aragorn Ranger of the North.

[Kralik]

Indeed. That title goes to swarm.

[Kralik]

For those who don't believe my last post...

Behold the terror of... ORC SLAYER!

[Gil-Estel]

Smeagollum, did you just deleted your account because of this debate over creating a format next to movie block? Seriously? Come on man, get your act together, we are almost all grown ups here! Wtk and Lurtzy also participate in the debate, eventhough Lurtzy seems only to want to make sure we don't forget we can't alter formats, for which I applaud you, but they don't want this format either.

Kom op man, als je dit leest, maak je account weer aan en doe gewoon weer mee. Vind je niet dat je een beetje sterk reageert? Je wilt de hele tijd een PC en nu lijkt er een beslissing democratisch te worden genomen over een format dat je niet eens hoeft te spelen en dan kap je er mee? Volgens mij is de discussie ook erg 'clean' gebleven, zonder persoonlijke aanvallen oid.

Since I can't send him a personal message anymore, I did a part in dutch.

[Witchkingx5]

So well, if there will ever be a movie tournament on GCCG, expect me to play the Deck that abuses LR the most.

And just a Side note: Nazzies are also really nice in FotR. On Ford of Bruinen, with two Morgul gates in your hand, I won countless numbers of games.