[DEFUNCT] SW/LotR Project. Please ignore this but also don't hate me for clutter

[menace64]

lol okay you convinced me! Vader's a Human again.

Also, the Imperial culture is finished. All that's left is a few cards in Rebellion, Sith, and Tatooine, and then the adventure path!

[Sabrien Reed]

This set is awesome.  I see you are trying to get it into GCCG too.  I'd love to playtest it when it's ready!

[menace64]

I've taken a few little glimpses into porting my cards into GCCG, and it doesn't look hopeful. I don't have a mind for such things, but if someone can dumb things down for me, I can easily type everything into the program (I'm a typing wizard).

[menace64]

Well that was easier than I'd expected, and I did it in just over a week! That's an average of 26.8 cards a day! lol I've outdone myself...

So I'm going to let all of those cards simmer a bit while I look into grafting them onto GCCG. I encourage you to single out an entire culture (all on page 2 of this thread) and look for obvious power issues or confusing cards, or just whatever that stands out to you as funky/wrong. I'm pretty pleased with the results, and I'm looking forward to cranking out the next set, A Few Maneuvers... if starships turn out as I've imagined, it's going to be neat!

[menace64]

I'm currently steeped in graphic card design, but while making the transition from text to picture, I've been rolling around my ideas for the new card type being introduced in the second set, A Few Maneuvers: starships.

In previous iterations of this cross-project, I had dolled out starships as a special form of a borne possession, and honestly I was never happy with my own design. It took my grievances against cards like Mumak (an enormous beast ridden by one dude!) to a whole new level, and it just felt bulky and, uh, lazy (as far as design innovation is concerned).

This time around, the answer was so simple and organic that it hasn't really changed much from its first inception. Starships - a card type, like artifacts were in LotR - are introduced only after the players have had a few months to familiarize themselves with the game, and they really do change the way it's played. They aren't borne by companions at all, but instead play to the support area, and depending on how you manage their power they can give you any number of boosts.

For example, here's a basic design for a starship:

Medium Freighter [Fringe]
Starship * Freighter
Power 2.
Shields (Power 2): Prevent companions from taking wounds during the crossfire phase.
Speed (Power 2): At the start of the regroup phase, make the move limit for this turn +1.
Weapons (Power 1): Make a [Fringe] companion strength +1.

This is an extreme example, written to illustrate many points (however, the Fringe culture will have very versatile ships, so expect something like this on an upcoming card!). First, I'd like to explain what the Power X keyword is. Any card with Power X generates X power tokens at the start of its owner's turn, and any remaining power tokens on said card reset to that level as the turn begins. This prevents storing power for massive payoffs, and reinforces the varying levels of strengths inherent to starship designs. Some ships are built solely for brute force, while others tend to favor protection, and yet even more go for speed. Using my Power X mechanic, such differences can be brought onto the cards!

During a player's turn, he can spend his Power tokens however he likes, but there's a drawback to being too liberal with your power: if, at any time, your ship is without power (no Power tokens), it is discarded! So, in the above example, you could use your Medium Freighter for a few different things: A) a one-time catch against wounds in the crossfire phase; B) a one-time move limit increase; C) a +1 strength bonus to any Fringe companion once a turn; or D) a one-time +2 strength to Fringe companions. A lot of options, some more risky than others.

The card representation of the Millennium Falcon would generate more Power than the Medium Freighter, and would be less-likely to run out of power and thus leave play, but there will be many cards that drain power or boost power, making for all sorts of troublesome scenarios.

Your thoughts?

[sickofpalantirs]

Oooo...shiny.

The concept seems good, and as long as abilities reflect the different abilities of the ships (X-wings should be able to take out other fighters for instance) it could work quite well.  Will their be any sort of "pilot" keyword?  Or cards that help ships?  and how big do you think these ships will get?  Dreadnaughts?  Star Destroyers?...Death stars?

[leokula]

I think it doesn't feel like a ship at all... how do you represent people being inside it? I mean, it protects and all, but if it gets discarded, who dies with it? Is everybody inside a ship always? How does it work with multiple ships?

[menace64]

I think it doesn't feel like a ship at all... how do you represent people being inside it? I mean, it protects and all, but if it gets discarded, who dies with it? Is everybody inside a ship always? How does it work with multiple ships?

I took all of that into consideration at the beginning of design, and really it just came down to how complicated I wanted ships to be. I mean, I could have made a card like Millennium Falcon which says "Load 4 companions onto this ship" and have some difficult jargon referring to companions in play versus companions on ships... yes, a headache! It's something I tried years ago and hated every second of it. This new design represents the support of ships (hence support area) without the difficulty of translating into a card mechanic people actually dwelling aboard them. I mean, how would you even create a Star Destroyer with any hope of accurately portraying its size and power?

The concept seems good, and as long as abilities reflect the different abilities of the ships (X-wings should be able to take out other fighters for instance) it could work quite well.  Will their be any sort of "pilot" keyword?  Or cards that help ships?  and how big do you think these ships will get?  Dreadnaughts?  Star Destroyers?...Death stars?

I haven't quite made up my mind about a pilot keyword yet. Almost every character in Star Wars is capable of flying a ship, it almost goes without saying that a companion is a pilot (this would be nearly akin to a Warrior keyword in LotR). This upcoming second set will focus heavily on starships, and each culture will have its own tricks to play when it comes to supporting/sabotaging them.

And yes, there will be a Death Star starship (two different versions, in fact). But that's the third set.  

[leokula]

It's just hard to analyse the designs because it's impossible not to compare it to SW:CCG which is almost flawless in all its mechanics and nuances... the way it did ships and space and ground and light sabers and force... it's such a tough challenge to top it.

I don't mean to turn you down at all, it's just that the LOTR TCG format was made to suit the movie, where there's a quest (only on the ground lol) and everything surrounds it... it's all about the ring and what happens to it and evil forces trying to stop it... whereas in Star Wars, it's not that linear, it's not like there's only one thing going on.

[menace64]

I agree with you 100%, and half the fun in doing these cards is finding a way to translate the flavor of Star Wars in the LotR TCG format. Doesn't always work (#$&*@!, even LotR doesn't translate correctly every time), but since less people here would be interested in straight SWCCG dream cards - I'm not even sure I'd remember how to write them! - I'm forced to work with what's available to me. 

I wouldn't expect to see many updates from me until early next week. Going on vacation and wont be on the computer very often. But graphic cards will start popping up soon!

[menace64]

A Few Maneuvers

Fringe Culture (24 Cards):
1. Chewie, Proficient Mechanic (Companion, Common)
2. Corellian Bloodstripes (Alliance Verb, Common)
3. Evazan, The Mad Doctor (Minion, Force Rare)
4. Falcon's Turrets (Alliance Possession, Uncommon)
5. Freighter Captain (Companion, Common)
6. Got It Where It Counts (Alliance Verb, Uncommon)
7. Grounded (Shadow Verb, Rare)
8. Han, Not a Revolutionary (Companion, Rare)
9. Heroes of the Clone Wars (Alliance Condition, Rare)
10. Hold-out Blaster (Shadow Possession, Common)
11. Juri Juice (Shadow Verb, Uncommon)
12. Local Trouble (Shadow Verb, Common)
13. Medium Freighter (Alliance Starship, Common)
14. Millennium Falcon (Alliance Starship, Rare)
15. Mos Eisley Pilot (Minion, Common)
16. Mos Eisley Thug (Minion, Rare)
17. Mos Eisley Trouncer (Minion, Uncommon)
18. Patrol Craft (Shadow Starship, Common)
19. Pirate Blastboat (Shadow Starship, Rare)
20. Ponda, Aqualish Thug (Minion, Uncommon)
21. Prohibited Blaster (Alliance Possession, Common)
22. Special Modifications (Alliance Verb, Rare)
23. Tonnika Sisters, Slippery Con Artists (Minion, Rare)
24. You'll Be Dead! (Shadow Verb, Common)

Imperial Culture (28 Cards):
25. Blast Points (Verb, Rare)
26. Devastator (Starship, Rare)
27. Dewback (Possession, Uncommon)
28. Discovered (Verb, Rare)
29. Imperial Ace (Minion, Rare)
30. Imperial Enforcer (Minion, Common)
31. Imperial Patroller (Minion, Uncommon)
32. Imperial Pilot (Minion, Common)
33. Imperial Sandtrooper (Minion, Common)
34. Imperial Scout (Minion, Uncommon)
35. Imperial Star Destroyer (Starship, Uncommon)
36. Imperial Wingman (Minion, Common)
37. Landing Shuttle (Starship, Uncommon)
38. Local Help (Verb, Common)
39. Overrun (Verb, Common)
40. Overwhelmed (Verb, Uncommon)
41. Praji, Imperial Commander (Minion, Uncommon)
42. Short-range Fighters (Verb, Common)
43. Stop That Ship! (Verb, Common)
44. Stormtrooper Backpack (Possession, Common)
45. Stormtrooper Battalion (Minion, Rare)
46. Stormtrooper Rifle (Possession, Common)
47. Stunned (Verb, Common)
48. Tallon Roll (Verb, Common)
49. TIE Fighter (Starship, Common)
50. TIE Scout (Starship, Common)
51. TIE Wing (Verb, Rare)
52. Turbolaser Battery (Possession, Uncommon)

Jedi Culture (10 Cards):
53. Another Fate (Verb, Common)
54. Awareness (Verb, Common)
55. Blast Helmet (Possession, Rare)
56. Crazy Wizard (Verb, Rare)
57. The Force is With Him (Verb, Common)
58. A Healthy Skepticism (Verb, Uncommon)
59. Hokey Religion (Verb, Common)
60. Kenobi's Ward (Verb, Uncommon)
61. Kenobi's Secret (Verb, Rare)
62. That's Your Uncle Talking (Verb, Common)

Rebellion Culture (23 Cards):
63. All Wings Report In (Verb, Rare)
64. Artoo, Luke's Astromech (Follower, Common)
65. Biggs, Luke's Wingman (Companion, Common)
66. Blockade Runner (Starship, Common)
67. Corellian Slip (Verb, Uncommon)
68. Darklighter Spin (Verb, Common)
69. Hang On Back There! (Verb, Uncommon)
70. Immediate Repairs (Verb, Common)
71. Light Armor (Possession, Uncommon)
72. Perseverance (Verb, Common)
73. Raymus, Corellian Captain (Companion, Rare)
74. Rebel Rifle (Possession, Common)
75. Rebel Tech (Companion, Uncommon)
76. Rebel X-wing (Starship, Common)
77. Rebel Y-wing (Starship, Uncommon)
78. Red Three (Starship, Uncommon)
79. Red Two (Starship, Rare)
80. S-foils (Possession, Common)
81. Snubfighter Shielding (Possession, Uncommon)
82. Tantive Four (Starship, Rare)
83. Threepio, Always Left Behind (Follower, Common)
84. Wedge, Elite Star-pilot (Companion, Rare)
85. Wedge, Rebel Warrior (Companion, Common)

Sith Culture (10 Cards):
86. Black-squadron TIE (Starship, Uncommon)
87. Boosted TIE Cannons (Possession, Uncommon)
88. Dark Alter (Verb, Common)
89. Dark Sense (Verb, Common)
90. Imperial Envoy (Minion, Rare)
91. Incisive (Verb, Uncommon)
92. No One to Stop Us This Time (Verb, Uncommon)
93. TIE Advanced (Starship, Rare)
94. Vader's Grasp (Verb, Uncommon)
95. Vader's Reach (Verb, Rare)

Tatooine Culture (25 Cards):
96. Aging Sandcrawler (Shadow Possession, Uncommon)
97. Band of Thieves (Minion, Rare)
98. Beru's Stew (Alliance Verb, Common)
99. Camie, Friend to Luke (Companion, Common)
100. Clever Diversion (Shadow Verb, Common)
101. Communication Droid (Alliance Follower, Common)
102. Fixer, Friend to Luke (Companion, Uncommon)
103. A Greater Destiny (Alliance Verb, Common)
104. Humble Homestead (Alliance Verb, Uncommon)
105. Jawa Longrobes (Shadow Possession, Common)
106. Jawa Miscreant (Minion, Uncommon)
107. Jawa Pistol (Shadow Possession, Rare)
108. Jawa Scurrier (Minion, Common)
109. Jawa Stalker (Minion, Common)
110. Luke, Not Going Anywhere (Companion, Common)
111. Riding Bantha (Shadow Possession, Common)
112. Shutting Up, Sir (Alliance Verb, Rare)
113. Sliven, Young Warrior-raider (Minion, Rare)
114. They Belong to Us Now (Alliance Verb, Rare)
115. They'll Soon Be Back (Shadow Verb, Uncommon)
116. Tusken Ambusher (Minion, Common)
117. Tusken Champion (Minion, Rare)
118. Tusken Leader (Minion, Uncommon)
119. Tusken Pillager (Minion, Common)
120. Wioslea, Spaceport Dealer (Companion, Force Rare)

Creature Deck (5 Cards):
121. The Dangerous Wilds (Verb, Rare)
122. Predatory (Verb, Uncommon)
123. Riled Up (Verb, Common)
124. Rogue Bantha (Creature, Uncommon)
125. Something Alive in Here (Verb, Common)

Adventure Deck (9 Cards):
126. Briefing Room (Site, Uncommon)
127. Command Station (Site, Common)
128. High Orbit (Site, Common)
129. Lars' Garage (Site, Uncommon)
130. Massassi Outpost (Site, Common)
131. Sunken Courtyard (Site, Common)
132. Tatooine Approach (Site, Uncommon)
133. Tosche Station (Site, Uncommon)
134. Yavin Approach (Site, Uncommon)

2 Force Rares
32 Rares
40 Uncommons
60 Commons

[Sabrien Reed]

You know how we had Ring-bound and Unbound?  What about Land and Space?  You can have characters who come with a ship that they are in.  You can also have Possessions that turn a Land character into a Space one.  Just thinking out loud here.

[menace64]

I hadn't thought about that before, and while I don't think those would quite work as keywords, I'm sure that down the road there will be decks devoted entirely to starships. But what will happen with Empire Strikes Back (the second base set) is the introduction of the keyword Destined and its mechanical mate, undestined. It will reflect Luke going off on his own (just like Frodo at the end of Fellowship), and characters like Yoda and maybe Obi-Wan's apparition (I've yet to decide whether or not it will be a companion) will also be Destined.

Anywho, it's been some time since I put up the new cardlist and I'd like to start getting into card designs. I was going to post a few simple cards, but one thing led to another and I ended up writing nearly half of the [Fringe] cards...

Medium Freighter [Fringe]
Starship * Freighter
Power 2. To play, spot a [Fringe] companion.
Shields (Power 1): If a companion is about to take a wound, exert a [Fringe] companion to prevent that.
Weapons (Power 2): Damage an opponent's starship.
2C13

This is the fairly-basic form that starships are going to take. Reference a few posts up for the rule specifics, but basically here you'd get 2 power tokens at the start of the turn (this number resets; you can't accumulate more power by saving over many turns), and from there you can spend those tokens to gain effects. But if your starship has 0 power tokens on it, it's discarded.

Lots of options on these cards, and it takes me a few goes at each starship to really arrive at a sense of balance versus worth. Originally I gave the Freighter a credit cost, but really I think it gives a better flavor for these to be the cheapest cards available to the culture (remember, Alliance Fringe cards always come with a credit cost). Lowering the starship costs makes them stand out.

I'd like to note right off the bat that in my mind I envision a different card template layout for starships, allowing for a bit more space in the text box. A stripped-down version of the character template might work out. Also, the finished design will have little symbols to replace the Shield, Speed, and Power keywords to help manage the space.

Oh, and I guess I forgot to mention what damaging a starship actually means - all you do is remove a single power token. It sounds easy enough, but getting damaged at the wrong time can ruin a starship's usefulness for the turn or outright destroy it; but the balance is that since the power resets each turn, all damage is automatically 'repaired'.

*Chewie, Proficient Mechanic [Fringe]
Companion * Wookiee
Strength 7
Vitality 3
Resistance 6
Damage +1. To play, spot Han.
At the start of your alliance phase, you may exert Chewie to make your [Fringe] starship power +1 until the end of the turn.
2C1

A very simple companion that can give you a real boost later on.

*Falcon's Turrets [Fringe]
Possession
Plays on your [Fringe] starship.
While you can spot 2 [Fringe] companions, this starship's weapons require 1 less power.
2U4

Originally I wanted to write something similar to Gondor Bowmen, but in the end I stuck to something much easier. With these three cards alone you can really wreak some havoc. Chewie gives the +1 power and the Turrets drop the Freighter's weapons by 1 - and suddenly you can safely damage another starship twice in the same turn (or a third time if you don't mind losing the Freighter). Can you imagine yet how strategic this can get, given that it's likely your opponents also have these mechanics available to them?

Freighter Captain [Fringe]
Companion * Human
Strength 5
Vitality 3
Resistance 5
Response: If your starship is about to be damaged, exert this companion to prevent that.
2C5

Something like this will be available to all the cultures, and it's yet another thing that Fringe will excel at.

Got It Where It Counts [Fringe]
Event * Skirmish
Spot your [Fringe] starship to make a [Fringe] companion strength +3.
2U6

Compare to Right Here Waiting, which gives +2 strength and a potential damage bonus, this new strength pump is geared solely towards starships. Once again, though, the pump receives a high credit cost.

*Millennium Falcon [Fringe]
Starship * Freighter
Power 5. To play, spot Han or Chewie.
Shields (Power 3): Make the minion crossfire total -2.
Speed (Power 2): At the start of the regroup phase, exert Han or Chewie to make the move limit for this turn +1 (limit once per turn).
Weapons (Power 3): Damage an opponent's starship.
2R14

I was wanting to save this for down the road, but if there's an issue with the core of starship design I want you to point it out now, so it just makes sense to reveal the heavy-hitter in the set.

I don't imagine power levels going much higher than 5 (except for the Death Star and the Executor, since they've got to be much harder to kill), but I was trying to capture the feeling of everything the Falcon is: fast, strong, hardy.

Something else just came to mind... is it too powerful to allow the Weapons to be used at any time? I mean, what I can see happening is a lot of regroup phase destruction, since all you have to do is save a free power token that long. What I really don't want is a stall/delay war, and restricting the use of Weapons to a certain phase would help even things out. What do you think?

I'll post some shadow stuff next time!

[azogsbane]

I love the starships!

[sickofpalantirs]

Medium Freighter [Fringe]
Starship * Freighter
Power 2. To play, spot a [Fringe] companion.
Shields (Power 1): If a companion is about to take a wound, exert a [Fringe] companion to prevent that.
Weapons (Power 2): Damage an opponent's starship.
2C13

In your explanation you said this was power 3...is it meant to be 3? or 2 like you have here.  So can every action be used at any time? 

*Chewie, Proficient Mechanic [Fringe]
Companion * Wookiee
Strength 7
Vitality 3
Resistance 6
Damage +1. To play, spot Han.
At the start of your alliance phase, you may make your [Fringe] starship power +1 until the end of the turn.
2C1

Seems undercosted.  A damage +1 character with 7 strength and a very handy ability? I guess you want to be able to start Chewie and Han, but I'd rather make him cost 3 and cost -1 while you spot Han.

*Falcon's Turrets [Fringe]
Possession
Plays on your [Fringe] starship.
This starship's weapons require 1 less power.
2U4

Seems like it should do something extra special when on the Falcon.  Could get ridiculous depending on how many ways you have for action to cost less power.

*Millennium Falcon [Fringe]
Starship * Freighter
Power 5. To play, spot Han or Chewie.
Shields (Power 3): Make the minion crossfire total -2.
Speed (Power 2): At the start of the regroup phase, exert Han or Chewie to make the move limit for this turn +1 (limit once per turn).
Weapons (Power 3): Damage an opponent's starship.
2R14

That seems like a really easy way to triple move.  I don't know.  Maybe it's ok.

Something else just came to mind... is it too powerful to allow the Weapons to be used at any time? I mean, what I can see happening is a lot of regroup phase destruction, since all you have to do is save a free power token that long. What I really don't want is a stall/delay war, and restricting the use of Weapons to a certain phase would help even things out. What do you think?

It would be kinda nice to have a weapons phase (or maybe multiple weapons phases) because if it is just response it could get weird very fast.