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Author Topic: Gemp Merchant Market Watch: High Prices or Out of Stock  (Read 7438 times)

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April 18, 2013, 07:37:54 AM
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sgtdraino

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Gemp Merchant Market Watch: High Prices or Out of Stock
« on: April 18, 2013, 07:37:54 AM »
This thread is for reporting any cards you see in the Gemp Merchant which seem to have absurdly high prices, and also cards that are out of stock. This will be useful for identifying potential problems with the Merchant, potential attempts at exploiting the Merchant, and also will hopefully encourage players with extra cards to sell back to the merchant and bring the absurdly high prices down, and build the stock back up again.

I will go ahead and state up front that I don't think any single card in the Merchant should ever cost more than 200 gold. I'd like it even better if no card in the Merchant cost more than 100 gold.

This is not a comprehensive report, just cards I happen to encounter while looking in the Merchant.

Anyhoo, here we go...

Hides 265g
Pippin, Wearer of Black and Silver 278g
The Balrog, Demon of Might 142g (this is a fixed card still readily available in real life)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 07:13:41 AM by sgtdraino »
"I would have followed you, my brother... my captain... my king." - Boromir

April 18, 2013, 07:46:26 AM
Reply #1

Grond

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Re: Cards in the Gemp Merchant with Absurd Prices
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2013, 07:46:26 AM »
this happens because when the merchant runs out of stock of a card, the selling price is increased b y 100% instead of 10%. Since there are not many players around opening boosters from these editions the prizes of some cards are still very high.

April 18, 2013, 01:34:11 PM
Reply #2

sgtdraino

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Re: Cards in the Gemp Merchant with Absurd Prices
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2013, 01:34:11 PM »
Well, it sounds like that mechanic should be corrected, then.
"I would have followed you, my brother... my captain... my king." - Boromir

April 18, 2013, 03:47:19 PM
Reply #3

sdevelyn

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Re: Cards in the Gemp Merchant with Absurd Prices
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2013, 03:47:19 PM »
How do you know that this is not the actual market value for these cards given their in-game scarcity?

My bigger concern is the large spread between buy and sell price in general. But that is a post for another day.

April 20, 2013, 08:31:45 AM
Reply #4

radagastthefool

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Re: Cards in the Gemp Merchant with Absurd Prices
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2013, 08:31:45 AM »
All the starter cards from Hunters but in particular

Mauhur 15S164 711g :o

April 20, 2013, 09:33:51 AM
Reply #5

Grond

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Re: Cards in the Gemp Merchant with Absurd Prices
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2013, 09:33:51 AM »
How do you know that this is not the actual market value for these cards given their in-game scarcity?

My bigger concern is the large spread between buy and sell price in general. But that is a post for another day.

Its not large when there are cards on stock. Give it time.

April 20, 2013, 12:12:01 PM
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Cthulhu

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Re: Cards in the Gemp Merchant with Absurd Prices
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2013, 12:12:01 PM »
All the starter cards from Hunters but in particular

Mauhur 15S164 711g :o

Thats because you can not buy these starters. You should check the prices before the reset - Mauhur was selling for like 8000..
My current Gemp Tengwar count: 133 + 4

April 20, 2013, 02:03:08 PM
Reply #7

Eukalyptus

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Re: Cards in the Gemp Merchant with Absurd Prices
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2013, 02:03:08 PM »
13 million is more like it...

April 20, 2013, 04:48:37 PM
Reply #8

Cthulhu

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Re: Cards in the Gemp Merchant with Absurd Prices
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2013, 04:48:37 PM »
well i was talking before the merchant went crazy. point is, these cards are very rare and their prices are no surprise.
My current Gemp Tengwar count: 133 + 4

April 21, 2013, 09:31:03 AM
Reply #9

sgtdraino

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Re: Cards in the Gemp Merchant with Absurd Prices
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2013, 09:31:03 AM »
How do you know that this is not the actual market value for these cards given their in-game scarcity?

Just check ebay. Especially regarding the Ages End collection, which is still readily available IRL.

Unless you're talking about specifically Gemp market value... but here again I don't see the point. The Gemp market is wholely artificial, it's not based on any sort of real availability. The cards are as available (or inavailable) as MarcinS wants them to be. So far as I know, the gemp market is meant to simulate the real market... but the prices I listed are not reflective of real market prices. Particularly regarding Ages End cards.

My bigger concern is the large spread between buy and sell price in general. But that is a post for another day.

No, that's a great point. In the real market, the discrepancy between buy and sell prices are really nothing like they are in the gemp market.

Its not large when there are cards on stock. Give it time.

Why aren't there cards in stock? It's not like we have to wait for anyone to make them or buy them, it's all virtual.
What purpose is served by the merchant being low on stock?
And how does "time" improve the stock situation?

All the starter cards from Hunters but in particular

Mauhur 15S164 711g :o

Thats because you can not buy these starters. You should check the prices before the reset - Mauhur was selling for like 8000..

Why can't you buy these starters? It's not like we don't know what cards they're supposed to contain. Fixed cards in a starter should never be costing hundreds or thousands of gold, that's just silly.

point is, these cards are very rare and their prices are no surprise.

No, the point is that many of these cards aren't rare. They're fixed cards from starters, and the Ages End collection.
"I would have followed you, my brother... my captain... my king." - Boromir

April 21, 2013, 09:48:15 AM
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Grond

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Re: Cards in the Gemp Merchant with Absurd Prices
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2013, 09:48:15 AM »
sgtdraino, have you read anything about the merchant system? Doesn't seem like you did. The price/availability is not dictated by marcins. After the reset every single card starts at 0 at stock, every rare at 20 gold, every uncommon at 5 and every common at 1 gold. The only way merchant to get cards on stock is by people selling them to him. Just check fellowship block prices, they are dictated from the meta on gemp, and how much people buy them.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 12:42:07 PM by Grond »

April 21, 2013, 10:31:31 AM
Reply #11

sgtdraino

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Re: Cards in the Gemp Merchant with Absurd Prices
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2013, 10:31:31 AM »
stddraino, have you read anything about the merchant system?

Of course.

Doesn't seem like you did.

I have. I had the impression that MarcinS has tweeked it since what I originally read though, so I wasn't sure if some changes to the system had been implemented.

The price/availability is not dictated by marcins.

Who sets up the algorithm/rules that dictates what the merchant charges? What causes the price to go up or down, and by how much? I was under the impression that this person was indeed MarcinS. Is he not the person responsible for that?

After the reset every single card starts at 0 at stock, every rare at 20 gold, every uncommon at 5 and every common at 1 gold.

And why is that?

The only way merchant to get cards on stock is by people selling them to him.

1. What purpose does that serve?
2. I was under the impression that the Merchant itself opens up a certain number of virtual packs during a certain time period.

Just check fellowship block prices, they are dictated from the meta on gemp, and how much people buy them.

The prices are affected by whatever algorithm is being used to alter the prices based on how many people buy the card, and how quickly the merchant restocks. These rules were programmed by whoever set up the system, and these rules are causing absurd prices on various cards.

The system is not working effectively, and therefore should be improved.
"I would have followed you, my brother... my captain... my king." - Boromir

April 21, 2013, 12:22:54 PM
Reply #12

Grond

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Re: Cards in the Gemp Merchant with Absurd Prices
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2013, 12:22:54 PM »
For me the prices and the system is perfectly fine. The reason why everything starts at equal price is to let the community decide which will be the expensive cards and we are doing so by buying them. We all dictate the market. Why would we want random website to dictate the prices of the cards we are using? That really makes no sense. This is the natural way of doing it, the way it is. We are closed community, which dictates our OWN market values. I don't find anything absurd, and I am saving for few days to get my set of Small Hopes and constantly checking their price, in case someone sold some. I'm finding this exciting and intriguing.
And again, the purpose of having algorithm that calculates the prices is to leave the pricing to US the players.

April 22, 2013, 12:53:56 AM
Reply #13

Cthulhu

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Re: Cards in the Gemp Merchant with Absurd Prices
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2013, 12:53:56 AM »
What Grond said.

And the large spread between buy and sell price is to avoid situations like before the reset, where you open some expensive card (especially in a small set), sell it for very high (80-90% of the buy price), buy boosters, open another of said card, sell it, buy even more boosters, etc. It was close to infinite loop.

I think after the reset the system is working fine too. If the Grond's thicket idea or something like it is implemented, so multiple accounts shenanigans are not an issue too, everything will be perfect.

P.S. I dont care for post Shadows cards, but yeah, if the starter's content is known, those starters could be added to the merchant, if MarcinS has time to do it.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 12:59:00 AM by Cthulhu »
My current Gemp Tengwar count: 133 + 4

April 22, 2013, 05:36:56 AM
Reply #14

sgtdraino

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Re: Cards in the Gemp Merchant with Absurd Prices
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2013, 05:36:56 AM »
The reason why everything starts at equal price is to let the community decide which will be the expensive cards and we are doing so by buying them.

There is expensive, and then there is absurd. Especially when it comes to fixed cards from starter decks or the Ages End collection.

Again, why can't Hunters starter decks be purchased?
Why can't the Ages End collection be purchased?

We all dictate the market.

More accurately, the first few people to buy the popular cards dictate the market, because after that the rest of us are powerless to do anything about it. More accurately the algorithm dictates the market, by skyrocketing prices far beyond what they should be.

Why would we want random website to dictate the prices of the cards we are using?

Dude, that's what you've got. The Merchant dictates prices, and it does so according to its algorithm. We the players are not dictating the market in any kind of meaningful knowing way, because we have no conscious means of doing that. We are at the mercy of the algorithm.

This is the natural way of doing it,

It is anything but natural.

We are closed community, which dictates our OWN market values.

We aren't a closed community, anyone can join Gemp, or create a duplicate account just for the purposes of messing with prices.

I don't find anything absurd, and I am saving for few days to get my set of Small Hopes and constantly checking their price, in case someone sold some. I'm finding this exciting and intriguing.

I don't. I didn't come to Gemp to play some kind of marketing game. I came to play cards.

And again, the purpose of having algorithm that calculates the prices is to leave the pricing to US the players.

We the players do not dictate prices, we the players simply buy the cards. The algorithm dictates prices. It dictates prices based on what we buy, but that's NOT the same as we the players dictating the prices. The algorithm could say that if I buy five copies of a card, it then costs 200g, or it could say if I buy five copies of a card, it then costs 2,000,000g. That's not "leaving the pricing to us," that's leaving the pricing to the algorithm.

And the large spread between buy and sell price is to avoid situations like before the reset, where you open some expensive card (especially in a small set), sell it for very high (80-90% of the buy price), buy boosters, open another of said card, sell it, buy even more boosters, etc. It was close to infinite loop.

It does no such thing, it only dampens the effectiveness. The exploit, by my understanding, was to use dummy accounts to buy a bunch of copies of a single card that your normal account already has, to drive up the price to an insane level. You then sell the card back from your regular account and make a heap of gold. The large spread now makes it so you can't make as much gold at a time as you previously could, but it does nothing to "close the loop." For those who want to exploit the system, it just takes a little longer. The only way to truly fix the problem, is to either cap prices, or have the merchant stop selling singles. So far, neither of these measures have been implemented. Consequently, we have absurd prices, and we have this thread.

I think after the reset the system is working fine too. If the Grond's thicket idea or something like it is implemented, so multiple accounts shenanigans are not an issue too, everything will be perfect.

I don't see how Grond's ticket idea would stop the multiple account shenanigans.

P.S. I dont care for post Shadows cards,

Man, I do get tired of the bitching I hear from people about post-Shadows. It ain't that bad. Which is probably why Expanded is the second-most-played format on Gemp.

but yeah, if the starter's content is known, those starters could be added to the merchant, if MarcinS has time to do it.

There's always time.

But what we really need are price caps, or no more singles. And if we go the no singles route, all collections need to be reset again.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 05:40:01 AM by sgtdraino »
"I would have followed you, my brother... my captain... my king." - Boromir