GEMP Merchant Changes Announced

[sgtdraino]

Excellent!

[Merrick_H]

Let's do the math here assuming we start the reset on January 1:

200G at reset
50G a week - 12 weeks between the reset and the end of march

Total: 800G

That is enough to foil 18 rare cards.

With the average deck having 15-20 rares per side, it would be practically impossible to get all the rares foiled in a deck before the end of March.  Granted, this excludes prizes for leagues, but keep in mind each league costs 35 to 50 gold to join.

I'd like to see someone with a tier 1 deck from any block before the end of March.

[bign19]

So basically shortly after March everyone will have a deck similar to an all cards format. I still don't see how these changes are going to make any impact on the deck creation past a three month period. All cards and my cards are going to turn into identical formats again. Sure, people may not be able to abuse the gold system, but who really cares when people can construct a world class deck in a short period of time.
Why have a my cards option when it will essentially turn into an all cards format again?
It appears this ship has already sailed, but I would still prefer to only be able to get cards for my cards from packs, no buying (other than buying packs). If people are too impatient to work at making a decent creative deck, then why even have the format? All cards lets you use your ideal deck, my cards shouldn't.
The biggest advantage to using a system where only cards from packs can be used is that a lot more original decks will be seen. I know a lot of people are tired of playing against the same decks over and over and this would provide a unique option.

[sgtdraino]

Any My Cards scenario is eventually going to get more similar to All Cards, because gradually everybody will get more and more cards, and there is a finite number of different cards to collect. That's just the nature of the beast.

At least this new system will be more balanced than the old, with most of us collecting at more-or-less the same rate, and no advantages to those who were gaming the merchant system. My experience with the old system wasn't so much more original decks, as it was a few people with a lot of gold dominating the environment with obnoxious foily decks.

If you want to keep My Cards fresh, then I propose an annual reset each year, on January 1st.

[Cthulhu]

Let's do the math here assuming we start the reset on January 1:

200G at reset
50G a week - 12 weeks between the reset and the end of march

Total: 800G

That is enough to foil 18 rare cards.

With the average deck having 15-20 rares per side, it would be practically impossible to get all the rares foiled in a deck before the end of March.  Granted, this excludes prizes for leagues, but keep in mind each league costs 35 to 50 gold to join.

I'd like to see someone with a tier 1 deck from any block before the end of March.

Your lack of My Cards experience shows. You never buy cards with your weekly gold (which is used for entry fees only), you do it with your Daily and League winnings. So If I win a Daily Im now guaranteed 41+ gold everytime instead of the 2-3 gold total that I got half the times for opening crap rares worth 20 silver each? And Flaming Brand, Aragorns Bow and every other staple will cost 10 gold, not 100-150?

Yeah, we'll talk again.

[Merrick_H]

Thanks for the feedback Cthulhu.  We will be looking at options to promote more tournament and league play in the future including changes to prize support.

[Cthulhu]

Well just like after the last reset the Daily prizes have to be expanded to the Top 8-10 players, and All Cards single elimination tourney's prizes & entry fee have to be re-examined as well, if you want anyone to play these now that all the promos will sell for 2.5 gold and you get  a lot less out of the 1-2 boosters prize fund..

[sgtdraino]

Perhaps fewer packs as prize support, and more alternate cards that you can't buy in the Merchant?

[Cthulhu]

Just posted something in the chat and decided to elaborate a little:

I think adding Hunters starters and reseting S-prices and MC collections & gold would be enough. Maybe put a max price-cap (but no fixed prices) at about 50-100 gold for extra safety?
I'm not really sure how this fixed prices thing will work out, I'm pretty certain I can collect my primary decks in less than a month (it took me as much last 2 times) if all the rares cost 10 gold..
...Unless Daily prizes get severely reduced, but then we will have the current situation where noone plays them.


Not to mention big part of the fun of opening boosters and collecting will be gone when you know that you'll always get exactly 4 gold and 12 silver from every booster you open (barring some foil) and you can buy Goblin Armory and Hides and every other staple out there for 10 gold. Now that I think about it, Im afraid collecting may become  less fun, and geting it up to All Cards much easier and faster thing to do.

So I hope you guys are giving the whole thing some serious thought  and will make it right this time, because I doubt the MC scene will live through yet another reset later next year.

P.S. Whatever you do, make sure people start playing Dailys again, as they're the backbone of My Cards. Speaking of which  I think its time to cancel the obviously failed Expanded Daily experiment, and try TS in its place. Its the logical thing to do,  especially after a reset. You can put Expanded again later if there is enough interest.

[Eukalyptus]

And add EU friendly times for those dailies.

[sgtdraino]

I think adding Hunters starters and reseting S-prices and MC collections & gold would be enough. Maybe put a max price-cap (but no fixed prices) at about 50-100 gold for extra safety?

I agree that Hunters definitely needs to be added. Although, since the Merchant can no longer go out of stock, and S-card prices will be fixed, it's not so much an issue. My impression is that only MarcinS can add Hunters to the merchant though, so that's probably not going to happen.

Price-caps could work, though I am still wary of any system that basically favors the first players to buy up cards. The first to buy get advantage over everyone else, and everyone else will be stuck with the max price thereafter. For that reason, I think I prefer a fixed system. I could see eventually assigning individual fixed values to cards based upon their worth, though.

I'm not really sure how this fixed prices thing will work out, I'm pretty certain I can collect my primary decks in less than a month (it took me as much last 2 times) if all the rares cost 10 gold..
...Unless Daily prizes get severely reduced, but then we will have the current situation where noone plays them.

Time will tell. If it really takes so little time for people to rebuild their collections, then the system can be tweaked and reset again.

Not to mention big part of the fun of opening boosters and collecting will be gone when you know that you'll always get exactly 4 gold and 12 silver from every booster you open (barring some foil) and you can buy Goblin Armory and Hides and every other staple out there for 10 gold.

I disagree. With the old system, the focus of opening packs was on getting cards that were worth a lot of gold, not on getting cards you particularly want. Fixed prices shifts the focus back to getting the cards that you actually want, which is where I think the focus should be. Part of the problem of the old system, was that it got people focused on gaming it for more and more gold, rather than collecting cards.

Now that I think about it, Im afraid collecting may become  less fun,

I think that depends on what a particular player finds to be "fun." For those who enjoyed playing with the Merchant System like a stock market, obviously that aspect will be gone. Good riddance, I say.

and geting it up to All Cards much easier and faster thing to do.

If that is true, that may yet need to be tweeked. Or we could simply schedule periodic resets to give people the pleasure of going through the process again. Maybe players get to keep whatever goes in "Trophies" through each reset.

So I hope you guys are giving the whole thing some serious thought  and will make it right this time, because I doubt the MC scene will live through yet another reset later next year.

IMO this is the most promising change to the MC system so far, as I had largely given up on the old system. We'll see how it goes.

P.S. Whatever you do, make sure people start playing Dailys again, as they're the backbone of My Cards. Speaking of which  I think its time to cancel the obviously failed Expanded Daily experiment, and try TS in its place. Its the logical thing to do,  especially after a reset. You can put Expanded again later if there is enough interest.

Based on Gemp statistics, TS is a far less popular format than Expanded, which is about as popular as Movie. IMO Expanded Dailies mainly failed because they were scheduled (and had to compete with) the much more established Movie Dailies. I think Dailies should exist for the three most popular formats (Fellowship, Movie, and Expanded), and each format should get it's own day and times, in rotation. So, if you want to play Dailies every day, you'd have to mix it up between all three formats.

[Cthulhu]

My impression is that only MarcinS can add Hunters to the merchant though, so that's probably not going to happen.

Indeed he's the only one, and he already said he will do it before reseting, not to mention Eukaluptus already did most of the work and sent him the Hunters starters in coded form like 3 months ago.

The first to buy get advantage over everyone else, and everyone else will be stuck with the max price thereafter. I could see eventually assigning individual fixed values to cards based upon their worth, though.

No, they would not, as cards will be opened, bought and sold and their price will change.
Individual values sounds fine (as it doesnt make much sense Strength of Kings to cost as much as Goblin Armory), but I suppose it would require lots of coding for MarcinS, so probably won't happen.

If it really takes so little time for people to rebuild their collections, then the system can be tweaked and reset again

As i said, I dont think MC can handle too many resets. Lots of people gave up on My Cards after the last one. More will do after this one. Also during Zool's Reign of Terror (TM) MarcinS already showed that he too doesnt favor resets  and will do it as an extremely end measure only.

Fixed prices shifts the focus back to getting the cards that you actually want, which is where I think the focus should be. Part of the problem of the old system, was that it got people focused on gaming it for more and more gold, rather than collecting cards.

I dont think I'd want to or will ever be excited again to open any particular card from booster now that I know i can buy any one for 10 gold...And what "collecting" are we speaking about, when every format staple costs as every junk rare?

I think that depends on what a particular player finds to be "fun." For those who enjoyed playing with the Merchant System like a stock market, obviously that aspect will be gone.

I explained why it won't be fun for me. The old thrill of winning and opening boosters, eagerly awaiting the sight of that 4th Hides you need seriously decreases when: 1) every booster has the same value, so the element of surprise is lower and 2) its hard to get excited by opening boosters when you know you can buy any card you want for as much as you would pay for The Weight of a Legacy.
I predict that not long once people get some MC decks going, they would stop opening boosters in favor of just buying  the singles they need, and it was said thats the opposite of what the admins are tryig to achieve with the changes.

IMO Expanded Dailies mainly failed because they were scheduled (and had to compete with) the much more established Movie Dailies

Expanded Dailys have his own day twice a week since July... (you can see the exact date in the changelog tab). Still every time, only like 2-3 people wanted to actually play them, rest just joined and dropped for prizes. Then they just didnt get started at all, when the dropping issue was officially mentioned in MOTD. Then Daily prizes got cut to Top 4 only, and people stopped playing Dailys alltogether.

I think Dailies should exist for the three most popular formats (Fellowship, Movie, and Expanded), and each format should get it's own day and times, in rotation. So, if you want to play Dailies every day, you'd have to mix it up between all three formats.

Im not against that IF there is enough interest this time, just give people time to get some cards first. It isnt much fun to see bad FotR decks in all formats and most of the people sporting those decks joining and dropping exp daily for boosters..

And add EU friendly times for those dailies.

!!!

[UnPapayaCoconut]

If that is true, that may yet need to be tweeked. Or we could simply schedule periodic resets to give people the pleasure of going through the process again. Maybe players get to keep whatever goes in "Trophies" through each reset.

I like this idea.

I also think the problem with people not signing up for the daily was more about the inflation than the prize changes.

[Merrick_H]

I predict that not long once people get some MC decks going, they would stop opening boosters in favor of just buying  the singles they need, and it was said thats the opposite of what the admins are tryig to achieve with the changes.

Part of the intent, in my mind at least, is to make the powerful cards available to all for some investment as well as to reduce the strain on the server of the mass opening of packs.  The current system significantly encourages people playing the S-Foil lottery.  If you get one, MC=AC.  Where is the fun in that aside from the feeling of having won the lottery.

Another goal is removing merchant manipulation.  It is disheartening to see cards such as Goblin Armory, Aragorn's Bow, Hides, Morgul Brute and other power rares placed so far out of the range of so many players as to encourage them to play the S-Foil lottery.  As explained in the first post, the only way to remove merchant manipulation is to make it such that players have no interaction with each other at all through the merchant.  The only way to do that is to make all cards always available at a fixed price.

Another benefit is that this will hopefully encourage people to use one primary account helping people foster more of a community.

There is more I could write, but I don't know how coherent it would be.

Yes, if the implementation is as discussed, Trophies are cards such as Tengwars that will persist through any future resets and likely be usable in "All Cards" only or at some point in the future when enough people have had time to build "my cards" decks, in My Cards as well.
A third goal is to make the merchant a net gold sink.

[Cthulhu]

We wouldnt be having this conversation nor discussing a second reset in less than a year if only the Hunters starters were added earlier  

I'm pretty sure neither Aragorns Bow nor Hides nor any other card was so far out of my reach when i first joined the site and i was able to collect my decks for the Dailys rather quickly just by playing in Dailys. I think the market selfregulated itself just fine before the infinite gold bug, and then after the reset the delayed adding of the Hunters starters. The bigger concern IMO is limiting the access to the site to people who join just to troll people with all means they have available.

Ofcourse there will always be initial distance between players who just started and those who play from long time, and  the proposed changes won't prevent that - a person who starts collecting and playing january 2014 will still have big MC advantage over one who joins next september. But thats not really a bad thing, it just shows that the time invested  in Gemp is in fact the biggest currency there. And the new players can always make the transition to MC more smooth by playing some Sealed and AC Leagues first and geting some boosters, gold and experience before starting MC.

P.S. MarcinS said recently he discovered huge inneficiency in the packs code, which might be the reason for the server strain, so lets hope that gets fixed too.