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Author Topic: GEMP Merchant Changes Announced  (Read 20528 times)

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December 20, 2013, 07:25:36 AM
Reply #30

sgtdraino

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Re: GEMP Merchant Changes Announced
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2013, 07:25:36 AM »
Indeed he's the only one, and he already said he will do it before reseting, not to mention Eukaluptus already did most of the work and sent him the Hunters starters in coded form like 3 months ago.

That's great news!

No, they would not, as cards will be opened, bought and sold and their price will change.

History has shown that nearly all card values gradually creep up over time. Popular cards go up faster.

Individual values sounds fine (as it doesnt make much sense Strength of Kings to cost as much as Goblin Armory), but I suppose it would require lots of coding for MarcinS, so probably won't happen.

Could be. I wonder how tough it would be to assign a tiered value to all cards that would designate their fixed price? Like, I wonder if someone could do a search now for every card selling above X amount, and go ahead and assign a code to those cards that would cause them to cost some extra expensive fixed price once the reset happens?

As i said, I dont think MC can handle too many resets. Lots of people gave up on My Cards after the last one. More will do after this one. Also during Zool's Reign of Terror (TM) MarcinS already showed that he too doesnt favor resets  and will do it as an extremely end measure only.

Well, speaking from my own perspective, I gave up on MC long ago because I found it took much too long to build my collection without gaming the system and/or playing in Dailies every day, which I just can't do. So, if it is now a bit easier to build a collection, that is more of an incentive for me to participate in it, as compared to the old system.

I dont think I'd want to or will ever be excited again to open any particular card from booster now that I know i can buy any one for 10 gold...And what "collecting" are we speaking about, when every format staple costs as every junk rare?

Well, it doesn't actually cost the same, because if you get it in a pack you won, that is still far less cost than if you buy it in the store. 10 gold may not sound like much, but keep in mind, it shouldn't be as easy for people to build up the massive amounts of gold they were able to accumulate before. However, the system should be designed so that you can't sell the contents of a single booster, and have enough to buy whatever rare you want. If that is currently the case, then the fixed price of rares should be increased, or the gold you get from selling cards to the merchant needs to be decreased. Otherwise, you essentially end up getting exactly the rare you want in every pack you open, either actually in that pack, or by selling it and buying what you want.

ETA: Based on the figures in post #1, it looks like the redemption rate for cards sold to the Merchant is sufficiently low to prevent this. So, getting what you want in a pack should still have value.

ETA again: HOWEVER the merchant prices for packs probably need to be adjusted, in order to make it worth our while to gamble with packs rather than buy singles. Currently packs cost 10 gold, and the contents of a pack would normally yield 4g 1s that could be redeemed by selling the cards back to the merchant. By gambling with packs, you'd most likely lose more than half your gold, versus buying singles outright. I'd lower the cost of booster packs to about 6g.

I explained why it won't be fun for me. The old thrill of winning and opening boosters, eagerly awaiting the sight of that 4th Hides you need seriously decreases when: 1) every booster has the same value, so the element of surprise is lower and 2) its hard to get excited by opening boosters when you know you can buy any card you want for as much as you would pay for The Weight of a Legacy.

But every booster doesn't have the same value. A booster that has a card you actually need, has more value than a booster that has nothing you need, that you can only sell to the merchant for a fraction of the cards' worth.

Expanded Dailys have his own day twice a week since July... (you can see the exact date in the changelog tab). Still every time, only like 2-3 people wanted to actually play them, rest just joined and dropped for prizes. Then they just didnt get started at all, when the dropping issue was officially mentioned in MOTD. Then Daily prizes got cut to Top 4 only, and people stopped playing Dailys alltogether.

Well, way back when I gave up on the system, they were still scheduled together. I never checked back, and at this point I think a lot of us are just biding our time until the reset. I currently have almost a thousand gold I'm not bothering to spend, and about 18 packs I haven't bothered to open.

Im not against that IF there is enough interest this time, just give people time to get some cards first. It isnt much fun to see bad FotR decks in all formats and most of the people sporting those decks joining and dropping exp daily for boosters..

Each player tends to have their own favorite format. Each player is most likely to build their first deck for the format they like the most, and then branch out from there as they are able.

And add EU friendly times for those dailies.

I'd like to see a wider variety of times for all of the formats. At the time that I gave up on the old system, my work schedule made it impossible for me to participate in the Dailies.

Another goal is removing merchant manipulation.  It is disheartening to see cards such as Goblin Armory, Aragorn's Bow, Hides, Morgul Brute and other power rares placed so far out of the range of so many players as to encourage them to play the S-Foil lottery.  As explained in the first post, the only way to remove merchant manipulation is to make it such that players have no interaction with each other at all through the merchant.  The only way to do that is to make all cards always available at a fixed price.

Or price caps. But at this point I think I prefer fixed prices.

Yes, if the implementation is as discussed, Trophies are cards such as Tengwars that will persist through any future resets and likely be usable in "All Cards" only or at some point in the future when enough people have had time to build "my cards" decks, in My Cards as well.

Excellent!

We wouldnt be having this conversation nor discussing a second reset in less than a year if only the Hunters starters were added earlier  :(

I think we would. Hunters is only part of the problem, those are not the only cards to rocket sky-high in price, or go out-of-stock.

I'm pretty sure neither Aragorns Bow nor Hides nor any other card was so far out of my reach when i first joined the site and i was able to collect my decks for the Dailys rather quickly just by playing in Dailys. I think the market selfregulated itself just fine before the infinite gold bug, and then after the reset the delayed adding of the Hunters starters.

I disagree. The problem inherent to the system was present all along. If you joined the site before inflation had taken root, lucky you. Not so lucky for all those who came later.

The bigger concern IMO is limiting the access to the site to people who join just to troll people with all means they have available.

I don't really think there are that many trolls out there. Mostly it's just ZooL in different guises. There will always be minor infractions, that's just life and people aren't perfect. I think the moderators are doing an admirable job, though I'm sure their job would be easier if there was a way to prevent all the attempts to game the sealed deck leagues that happen whenever one starts. Maybe only one entry allowed from each IP?

Of course there will always be initial distance between players who just started and those who play from long time, and  the proposed changes won't prevent that - a person who starts collecting and playing january 2014 will still have big MC advantage over one who joins next september. But thats not really a bad thing, it just shows that the time invested  in Gemp is in fact the biggest currency there. And the new players can always make the transition to MC more smooth by playing some Sealed and AC Leagues first and geting some boosters, gold and experience before starting MC.

This is why I'd be in favor of some sort of annual reset once a year, to put all current members back on an equal footing again.

P.S. MarcinS said recently he discovered huge inneficiency in the packs code, which might be the reason for the server strain, so lets hope that gets fixed too.

I hope so!
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 07:45:18 AM by sgtdraino »
"I would have followed you, my brother... my captain... my king." - Boromir

December 20, 2013, 11:20:20 AM
Reply #31

Cthulhu

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Re: GEMP Merchant Changes Announced
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2013, 11:20:20 AM »

Well, speaking from my own perspective, I gave up on MC long ago because I found it took much too long to build my collection without gaming the system and/or playing in Dailies every day, which I just can't do. So, if it is now a bit easier to build a collection, that is more of an incentive for me to participate in it, as compared to the old system.


Well you can't really build a My Cards collection without playing My Cards tournaments and Leagues. :)  Neither can you expect to collect at the same rate as someone investing more time and efforts than you. And let me clarify,  when I wrote that with the currently proposed changes collecting post-reset looks easier to me, I meant easier through the eyes of the average My Cards fan, regularly playing Dailys and most of the Leagues. If you cant put as much time, collecting will just take you longer, and that cant be helped barring some future S-card-like lotteries, which I hope won't happen anytime soon. If you can only play Dailys and League games like a couple times in a month, then I don't think My Cards is meant for you. All Cards is exactly for the people who can't or don't want to invest such time in the site.

Quote
I think we would. Hunters is only part of the problem, those are not the only cards to rocket sky-high in price, or go out-of-stock.

Hunters is the root of the problem, and what caused those things happen. Prices wouldnt skyrocket and cards wouldnt go out of stock  (and indeed initially after the last reset they didn't) if there werent winning lottery tickets lying around in boosters, that let everybody who got one buy and foil the entire stock of the merchant, and allowing guys like youknowwho creating accounts until he opens one, and then messing with the merchant in his usual way.
Still, its pointless to discuss it now (we have some saying "putting a hood after the rain"), as adding the starters and reseting S prices  should be done right along with the last reset, and I'm certain if done we wouldnt be facing a reset now, but again that ship sailed long ago.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 11:55:55 AM by Cthulhu »
My current Gemp Tengwar count: 133 + 4

December 28, 2013, 11:44:31 PM
Reply #32

batmouse

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Re: GEMP Merchant Changes Announced
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2013, 11:44:31 PM »
do we have a date for the reset?

December 29, 2013, 07:32:52 AM
Reply #33

sgtdraino

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Re: GEMP Merchant Changes Announced
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2013, 07:32:52 AM »
I think it hits January 1.
"I would have followed you, my brother... my captain... my king." - Boromir

January 02, 2014, 12:38:10 AM
Reply #34

bibfortuna25

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Re: GEMP Merchant Changes Announced
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2014, 12:38:10 AM »
It's January 2...why hasn't this change happened yet?
All cards do what they say, no more, no less.

January 02, 2014, 01:07:02 AM
Reply #35

Cthulhu

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Re: GEMP Merchant Changes Announced
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2014, 01:07:02 AM »
Probably because MarcinS is a human too (as much as his work on Gemp implies otherwise =D>) , and celebrated just like everyone else. Its not like we're paying him to do it ASAP.

Besides if the point is everyone to start from scratch reseting isnt a good idea until tonight when the prizes for the last My Cards league that just ended will be given.

Also Im not so sure that everything about the reset is clear, and all details have been discussed by the admins and agreed on.

Still I hope that it gets done within a week or so, because once announced prolonging it is just bad. At the moment I dont have incentive to start playing the new Sealed, when I know Im losing all the Serie prizes. No one will want to  play Dailys or AC tournaments for the same reason too, and I cant remember when the last such tournament happened.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 01:38:48 AM by Cthulhu »
My current Gemp Tengwar count: 133 + 4

January 02, 2014, 04:48:08 AM
Reply #36

bibfortuna25

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Re: GEMP Merchant Changes Announced
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2014, 04:48:08 AM »
Hopefully they will be able to retroactively add in any prizes won in the Revised Sealed League. I've already won my first two games, but I am hesitant to play more until the reset is done.
All cards do what they say, no more, no less.

January 02, 2014, 07:34:37 AM
Reply #37

CoS

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Re: GEMP Merchant Changes Announced
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2014, 07:34:37 AM »
MarcinS told me today that he plans on having the time to implement the server changes regarding the reset this weekend.

January 10, 2014, 01:38:47 PM
Reply #38

TinkerT

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Re: GEMP Merchant Changes Announced
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2014, 01:38:47 PM »
about leagues that are been played this month?
would they been priced after the reset??
and any rare would cost the same always and with eternal stock ?

i support everithing , but  liked actual system
maybe should reset once a year or something to make it fun

and thanx for all the effort
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 01:48:50 PM by TinkerT »

January 13, 2014, 10:39:34 AM
Reply #39

Merrick_H

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Re: GEMP Merchant Changes Announced
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2014, 10:39:34 AM »
The reset has happened!

Updates at the top of the thread.  There will be updates as more questions are asked/answered.


January 14, 2014, 04:00:42 PM
Reply #40

Cthulhu

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Re: GEMP Merchant Changes Announced
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2014, 04:00:42 PM »
Tengwars don't show up even in All Cards!

Just played an All Cards League game, in which they were converted into regular cards (I checked my deck afterwards to make sure I've put them in - they're visible in the deck while in Deckbuilder). And its a brand new deck I made today, so they were properly put there from "Trophies".

« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 04:02:29 PM by Cthulhu »
My current Gemp Tengwar count: 133 + 4

January 14, 2014, 07:48:16 PM
Reply #41

Merrick_H

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Re: GEMP Merchant Changes Announced
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2014, 07:48:16 PM »
Per MarcinS:

"Tengwar cards show only in Casual games."

I will modify the Q/A to reflect that.

January 14, 2014, 08:44:02 PM
Reply #42

sgtdraino

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Re: GEMP Merchant Changes Announced
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2014, 08:44:02 PM »
I get that the trophy cards are only allowed to be used in All Cards constructed events, but I don't understand why MarcinS would make it so you can't see the trophies a guy won, in competitive events in which you compete to win trophies! It seems to me that league and tournament games are precisely where people would most want to show off what they've won, and I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be allowed to.

Any chance of modifying this?
"I would have followed you, my brother... my captain... my king." - Boromir

January 15, 2014, 01:34:29 AM
Reply #43

Cthulhu

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Re: GEMP Merchant Changes Announced
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2014, 01:34:29 AM »
So I assume it takes a lot of coding required to make them show in All Cards AND Casual, but not in My Cards?

Otherwise I just cant see why the once most desired prizes on Gemp have fallen to a state where I dont see why someone will be as excited as before to Top 4 a League again, even more so when he's done collecting his decks. :(

I say just reset them too and make them My Cards again, I'm willing to sacrifice my 40 Tengwars for them to be reinstalled as the most exciting prize on Gemp!



I don't understand why MarcinS would make it so you can't see the trophies a guy won, in competitive events in which you compete to win trophies! It seems to me that league and tournament games are precisely where people would most want to show off what they've won, and I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be allowed to.

+1000
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 02:05:44 AM by Cthulhu »
My current Gemp Tengwar count: 133 + 4

January 15, 2014, 01:51:45 AM
Reply #44

Zeispharn

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Re: GEMP Merchant Changes Announced
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2014, 01:51:45 AM »
I say just reset them too and make them My Cards again, I'm willing to sacrifice my 40 Tengwars for them to be reinstalled as the most exciting prize on Gemp!

I'll sacrifice mine too, I agree with Cthulhu's proposal.