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Author Topic: More Virtual Cards (Cruel Caradhras, take II)  (Read 186633 times)

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August 04, 2008, 06:44:42 AM
Reply #405

DáinIronfoot

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Re: More Virtual Cards (The Fighting Uruk-hai!)
« Reply #405 on: August 04, 2008, 06:44:42 AM »
I don't have a problem with making certain minions have two cultures, but I think it should be done in a slightly different way.

Perhaps instead of simply putting an [Uruk] in the text, insert a line "While you can spot another [Uruk] minion, this minion is an [Uruk] minion." Or AT LEAST do something like "[Uruk] - spot another [Uruk] minion". I'd much prefer the former, though.
Best regards,
Dáin


Check out Lasting Alliances and The Road Ahead, my two completed DC sets, and also The Way Into Mordor (in progress), all part of my 5-set Wars of the Ring DC "block".

August 04, 2008, 07:13:26 AM
Reply #406

Anvar

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Re: More Virtual Cards (The Fighting Uruk-hai!)
« Reply #406 on: August 04, 2008, 07:13:26 AM »
I actually prefer just having minions be of 2 cultures. I don't think it would be the end of the world. You just need to make sure that the minion would be fair in either culture.
"There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea's asleep, and the rivers dream; people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace. We've got work to do."
-Doctor Who

August 04, 2008, 08:09:37 AM
Reply #407

Thranduil

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Re: More Virtual Cards (The Fighting Uruk-hai!)
« Reply #407 on: August 04, 2008, 08:09:37 AM »
About these 2 culture minions, treat the culture symbol as a keyword (which is why if I refer to them on cards, I'll call them "culture keywords"). Just like a minion with the "fierce" keyword is referred to as a "fierce minion", a minion with the "[Uruk]" keyword is referred to as an "[Uruk] minion". It is quite possible that some of the minions will have a culture keyword conditionally as you were suggesting, DI, but some of them will also have it straight.

One of the universal problems with the old Uruks is that the designers valued damage bonuses far too highly and consequently the minions all had too low strength to be all that effective, especially when we move onto new player environments with companions like Durin III and Grimbeorn reaching previously unheard of strengths. So you'll notice that the strengths of these minions will almost universally be higher than the originals, though obviously let me know if I've gone a bit overboard which I sometimes do with minions! :mrgreen:

Anyway, we might as well start with the beast of all Uruks. These 2 were posted earlier in this thread, but have seen a few changes, I think.

[7]Lurtz, Servant of Isengard (V) [Isengard]
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 13
Vit: 3
Sit: 5
Damage +1. Tracker.
While at a battleground site, Lurtz gains the [Uruk] keyword.
Skirmish: Exert Lurtz to make another Uruk-hai strength +X, where X is that Uruk-hai's damage bonus.
Skirmish: Exert Saruman to heal Lurtz.
'"And now... perfected. Grown beyond the height of Men - straight limbed and strong, fearing nothing."'
1 V 127

[1]Lurtz's Sword (V) [Isengard]
Possession • Hand Weapon
Str: +2
Bearer must be an Uruk-hai.
While at a battleground site, bearer is vitality +1.
Skirmish: If bearer is Lurtz, discard 2 [Isengard] or [Uruk] cards from hand to make an Uruk-hai damage +1.
2 V 43

And this one's an extra bonus:

[3] Uruk Lieutenant (V) [Isengard]
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 7
Vit: 3
Sit: 5
[Uruk].
Damage +1.
While at a battleground site, this minion is a lurker.
Skirmish: Exert this minion and spot 3 Uruk-hai to make an Uruk-hai strength +2.
Skirmish: Exert this minion and spot 5 Uruk-hai to make an Uruk-hai damage +1.
1 V 148
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 11:55:37 AM by Thranduil »

August 04, 2008, 08:36:50 AM
Reply #408

DáinIronfoot

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Re: More Virtual Cards (The Fighting Uruk-hai!)
« Reply #408 on: August 04, 2008, 08:36:50 AM »
Quote from: Thranduil
About these 2 culture minions, treat the culture symbol as a keyword (which is why if I refer to them on cards, I'll call them "culture keywords"). Just like a minion with the "fierce" keyword is referred to as a "fierce minion", a minion with the "[Uruk]" keyword is referred to as an "[Uruk] minion". It is quite possible that some of the minions will have a culture keyword conditionally as you were suggesting, DI, but some of them will also have it straight.

Fair enough as long as it doesn't go overboard. Like I said, I don't have a problem with dual-culture characters (I have a few myself), but it's like playing with fire sometimes as far as balance goes. Just tread lightly, and expect me and other reviewers to occasionally jump on percieved threats to the integrity of the game if you take it too far. Deal? ;)

Quote from: Thranduil
[7]Lurtz, Servant of Isengard (V) [Isengard]
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 13
Vit: 3
Sit: 5
Damage +1. Tracker.
While at a battleground site, Lurtz gains the [Uruk] culture.
Skirmish: Exert Lurtz to make another Uruk-hai strength +X where X is that Uruk-hai's damage bonus.
Skirmish: Exert Saruman to heal Lurtz.
'"And now... perfected. Grown beyond the height of Men - straight limbed and strong, fearing nothing."'
1 V 127

Question: if [Uruk] would indeed by a so-called "culture keyword", wouldn't it be simply "...Lurtz gains [Uruk]"? Just playing the devil's advocate here, since I like the current wording as it is. Just trying to make sure things are consistent. No problems otherwise, but there should be a comma after "strength +X". :up: Maybe also consider making it "Exert Lurtz to make another Uruk-hai of his culture strength +X...." for fun.

Quote from: Thranduil
[1]Lurtz's Sword (V) [Isengard]
Possession • Hand Weapon
Str: +2
Bearer must be an Uruk-hai.
While at a battleground site, bearer is vitality +1.
Skirmish: If bearer is Lurtz, discard 2 Shadow cards from hand to make an Uruk-hai damage +1.
2 V 43

Limit it to 2 [Isengard] or [Uruk] cards, in my opinion. Plenty powerful, especially for only [1]...but it IS unique, so I guess it's okay. Powerful, but okay.

Quote from: Thranduil
[3] Uruk Lieutenant (V) [Isengard]
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 7
Vit: 3
Sit: 5
[Uruk-hai].
Damage +1.
While at a battleground site, this minion is a lurker.
Skirmish: Exert this minion and spot 3 Uruk-hai to make an Uruk-hai strength +2.
Skirmish: Exert this minion and spot 5 Uruk-hai to make an Uruk-hai damage +1,
1 V 148

Got a comma where you should have a period...I've done that a thousand times myself. :P Fine other than that.
Best regards,
Dáin


Check out Lasting Alliances and The Road Ahead, my two completed DC sets, and also The Way Into Mordor (in progress), all part of my 5-set Wars of the Ring DC "block".

August 04, 2008, 08:51:10 AM
Reply #409

Thranduil

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Re: More Virtual Cards (The Fighting Uruk-hai!)
« Reply #409 on: August 04, 2008, 08:51:10 AM »
Question: if [Uruk] would indeed by a so-called "culture keyword", wouldn't it be simply "...Lurtz gains [Uruk]"?
I had exactly the same thought, but I decided that the wording I went with was cleaner and clearer.

Thranduil

August 04, 2008, 08:56:05 AM
Reply #410

DáinIronfoot

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Re: More Virtual Cards (Uruk-hai Commanders)
« Reply #410 on: August 04, 2008, 08:56:05 AM »
Then just FYI, I would read that as NOT being a "culture keyword", but instead something different. If you intend for Lurtz to have [Uruk] as a culture keyword, you need to either rethink how one gains it or word it as I said in my review. I would vote for the former, since as you said, the wording you have on Lurtz is much cleaner than simply "gains [Uruk]".
Best regards,
Dáin


Check out Lasting Alliances and The Road Ahead, my two completed DC sets, and also The Way Into Mordor (in progress), all part of my 5-set Wars of the Ring DC "block".

August 04, 2008, 11:21:05 AM
Reply #411

Anvar

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Re: More Virtual Cards (Uruk-hai Commanders)
« Reply #411 on: August 04, 2008, 11:21:05 AM »
I'm not sure that it matters about wording. I think that having a symbol in the text is fairly clear. I could go either way on the "gains [X] culture" or "gains [X]". Surely it can have different wording without affecting gameplay.

Similarly you get "gains fierce", "is damage +1" and so on.
"There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea's asleep, and the rivers dream; people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace. We've got work to do."
-Doctor Who

August 04, 2008, 11:25:03 AM
Reply #412

Thranduil

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Re: More Virtual Cards (Uruk-hai Commanders)
« Reply #412 on: August 04, 2008, 11:25:03 AM »
I'm not sure that it matters about wording. I think that having a symbol in the text is fairly clear. I could go either way on the "gains [X] culture" or "gains [X]". Surely it can have different wording without affecting gameplay.
They could certainly be defined as the same thing, but it might add confusion to a card such as Saruman's Ambition (V) above about what constitutes a "culture keyword" and what does not.

Thranduil

August 04, 2008, 11:28:55 AM
Reply #413

DáinIronfoot

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Re: More Virtual Cards (Uruk-hai Commanders)
« Reply #413 on: August 04, 2008, 11:28:55 AM »
My point exactly, Thran. Just needs to be better clarified, I think, and then consistent.
Best regards,
Dáin


Check out Lasting Alliances and The Road Ahead, my two completed DC sets, and also The Way Into Mordor (in progress), all part of my 5-set Wars of the Ring DC "block".

August 04, 2008, 07:18:12 PM
Reply #414

Elf_Lvr

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Re: More Virtual Cards (Uruk-hai Commanders)
« Reply #414 on: August 04, 2008, 07:18:12 PM »
[7]Lurtz, Servant of Isengard (V) [Isengard]
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 13
Vit: 3
Sit: 5
Damage +1. Tracker.
While at a battleground site, Lurtz gains the [Uruk] keyword.
Skirmish: Exert Lurtz to make another Uruk-hai strength +X, where X is that Uruk-hai's damage bonus.
Skirmish: Exert Saruman to heal Lurtz.
'"And now... perfected. Grown beyond the height of Men - straight limbed and strong, fearing nothing."'
1 V 127

Interesting... he's okay, but not fantastic. Maybe a little too conditional.

Quote
[1]Lurtz's Sword (V) [Isengard]
Possession • Hand Weapon
Str: +2
Bearer must be an Uruk-hai.
While at a battleground site, bearer is vitality +1.
Skirmish: If bearer is Lurtz, discard 2 [Isengard] or [Uruk] cards from hand to make an Uruk-hai damage +1.
2 V 43

Awesome.

Quote
[3] Uruk Lieutenant (V) [Isengard]
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 7
Vit: 3
Sit: 5
[Uruk].
Damage +1.
While at a battleground site, this minion is a lurker.
Skirmish: Exert this minion and spot 3 Uruk-hai to make an Uruk-hai strength +2.
Skirmish: Exert this minion and spot 5 Uruk-hai to make an Uruk-hai damage +1.
1 V 148

Odd. I suppose he's good, if you can pull off enough minions.
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August 05, 2008, 03:35:21 AM
Reply #415

Thranduil

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Re: More Virtual Cards (Uruk-hai Soldiers)
« Reply #415 on: August 05, 2008, 03:35:21 AM »
And now for a cycle of mostly vanilla Uruks, but I think quite dangerous nonetheless.

[2] Uruk Savage (V) [Isengard]
Minion • Uruk-hai.
Str: 6
Vit: 1
Sit: 5
[Uruk].
Damage +1.
This minion is strength +2 for each wound on a character it is skirmishing.
"'One ill turn deserves another.'"
1 V 151

[2] Uruk Soldier (V) [Isengard]
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 7
Vit: 2
Sit: 5
[Uruk].
Damage +1.
This minion is strength +1 for each wound on a character it is skirmishing.
1 V 154

[3] Uruk Warrior (V) [Isengard]
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 9
Vit: 1
Sit: 5
[Uruk].
Damage +1.
While you can spot a tracker, this minion is not roaming.
This minion is strength +1 for each wound on a character it is skirmishing.
1 V 156

August 05, 2008, 08:20:43 AM
Reply #416

DáinIronfoot

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Re: More Virtual Cards (Uruk-hai Soldiers)
« Reply #416 on: August 05, 2008, 08:20:43 AM »
Quote from: Thranduil
[2] Uruk Savage (V) [Isengard]
Minion • Uruk-hai.
Str: 6
Vit: 1
Sit: 5
[Uruk].
Damage +1.
This minion is strength +2 for each wound on a character it is skirmishing.
"'One ill turn deserves another.'"
1 V 151

Seems odd lore for an Uruk, but no complaints about the rest of it.

Quote from: Thranduil
[2] Uruk Soldier (V) [Isengard]
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 7
Vit: 2
Sit: 5
[Uruk].
Damage +1.
This minion is strength +1 for each wound on a character it is skirmishing.
1 V 154

Well, okay, now I might have a teeny weeny issue. This sort of text is usually reserved for berserkers, which these guys are not. I might like them better with different text...especially this guy, since I think he's OP at only [2] for a 7/2 minion that can rather easily become stronger.

Quote from: Thranduil
[3] Uruk Warrior (V) [Isengard]
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 9
Vit: 1
Sit: 5
[Uruk].
Damage +1.
While you can spot a tracker, this minion is not roaming.
This minion is strength +1 for each wound on a character it is skirmishing.
1 V 156

Same comment here...though with the tie-in to trackers, he might be okay. I'd at least change the Uruk Soldier to something else, though.
Best regards,
Dáin


Check out Lasting Alliances and The Road Ahead, my two completed DC sets, and also The Way Into Mordor (in progress), all part of my 5-set Wars of the Ring DC "block".

August 05, 2008, 08:46:16 AM
Reply #417

Anvar

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Re: More Virtual Cards (Uruk-hai Soldiers)
« Reply #417 on: August 05, 2008, 08:46:16 AM »
I like the idea of the berserker ability retro-actively applied to Fellowship minions. It's a nice way of giving them potential strength boosts to allow their damage bonuses to take effect. An alternative would be enduring bonuses, which would work fairly well for a general Uruk strength - that of preventing wounds.

Anvar
"There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea's asleep, and the rivers dream; people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace. We've got work to do."
-Doctor Who

August 05, 2008, 09:09:55 AM
Reply #418

Thranduil

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Re: More Virtual Cards (Uruk-hai Soldiers)
« Reply #418 on: August 05, 2008, 09:09:55 AM »
These guys are not berserkers, though. They basically have bloodlust, if you remember that keyword from my DC set a while back, while Berserkers have bloodlust and enduring. On the other hand, the Orthanc Berserker (V) above does have the berserker text.

Oh, and about the lore on the savage, it was actually a section of the original lore text they had on the original card which was basically a random collection of Saruman's speech!

Thranduil
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 09:11:44 AM by Thranduil »

August 05, 2008, 11:36:17 AM
Reply #419

Thranduil

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Re: More Virtual Cards (Uruk-hai Soldiers)
« Reply #419 on: August 05, 2008, 11:36:17 AM »
Let's have more stuff to exert companions and take advantage of it! :twisted:

[3]Uruk Captain (V) [Isengard]
Minion • Uruk-hai
Str: 9
Vit: 2
Sit: 5
[Uruk].
Damage +1.
When you play Uruk Captain, you may exert X [Isengard] or [Uruk] minions to make the Free Peoples player exert X companions.
Each time Uruk Captain wins a skirmish, you may heal an [Isengard] minion.
2 V 46

[2] Beyond the Height of Men (V) [Isengard]
Event • Response
[Uruk].
If an Uruk-hai wins a skirmish, choose one: exert a companion; or exert that minion to take control of a site.
"'Whom do you serve?'"
2 V 39

(0) Savagery to Match Their Numbers (V) [Isengard]
Event • Skirmish
[Uruk]
Choose one: make an Uruk-hai strength +1 for each wound on each character in its skirmish; or make an Uruk-hai strength +1 for each other Uruk-hai you can spot.
1 V 139
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 11:54:26 AM by Thranduil »