Towers Standard Sealed Deck Lists and Replays

[Merrick_H]

Good point bigred...Throne Room would be a better option since this is first serie..don't want them to set up the horses too fast.

Do you think only 3 weapons is too little? Maybe just dropping Eomer's spear would be sufficient.

Of course...even if they aren't winning every skirmish they can still heal a couple guys the next turn so there is that too...

I'd say that 2 weapons should be plenty.  The original Theoden starter had no weapons at all.

The swap to throne room is good to slow down the horses a little and make it so that site 4 doesn't hurt the Rohan deck as much as others.

The problem with moving Easterlings to Series 3 is that then ALL of your Raider culture decks are in series 3.  I would probably suggest the following re-arrangement:

Proposed Pairings by Series
Serie 1:
Ringbound Companions/Easterlings & Gollum
Gandalf & Dwarves/Moria & Isengard Archery
Rohan Allies/Sauron Trackers (Grind)

Serie 2:
Knights/Dunland Discard
Unbound Rangers/Twilight Nazgul
Gandalf & Rohan/Berserkers

Serie 3:
Shoulder to Shoulder/Southrons
Hobbits & Smeagol/Rohirrim Traitors
Three Hunters/Uruk Trackers

The reason for moving the Three Hunters/Uruk Trackers to Series 3 is that all three of the fellowships seem more experimental and fragile in series 3.  By this time you should have decent companions, but it is not guaranteed.  This way you have to choose whether you fill in your fellowship with Elves/Dwarves, Hobbits or A REALLY good Aragorn (Def+1 is huge).  

It allows us to have good representation of the shadows early (sauron, moria, isengard archery, some Raider). Series 2 picks up the themes that were established in Mines and Battle (Berserkers, Dunland Discard, Twilight Nazgul).  Series 3 fills in interesting strategies with the first guaranteed Commander and additional Southron support and two additional fairly heavily condition dependent strategies.  This also keeps the major abuse from grind decks at a minimum.  The only major down side I see is that it does leave the pairing of Twilight Nazgul and Easterlings possible, but it is hard to add burdens vs. Ringbound, so there is a bit of a natural balance.

[Merrick_H]

I modified the Knight/Dunland Deck to have Ring of Isengard rather than Wizard's Vale.  Seems like a much better fit.

We also need to cut a card from the knight side to make it 30 cards (currently 31)  I'd recommend Gondor will see it done or a city wall to take it to 3 City wall.

Also need to add another card to the Twilight Nazgul Shadow.  As proposed it is only 29 cards.

[Eukalyptus]

I count 30 cards with the Twilight Nazgul. One less City Gates would be fine if we go for the "rule of 3".

[Merrick_H]

I see.  There was a copying error.  I have fixed it and we should be good to go in the main deck list.

[BigRedMF]

I would suggest we swap some pairings in Serie 2 to prevent the "easy" choice of Rangers/Corruption in Serie 1 and then Ranger/Corruption in Serie 2, or Rohan/Exertion in Serie 1 and Rohan/Berserkers in Serie 2. I realize the rangers aren't quite the same but many cards work in both decks. The Revised Movie decks were set up in a clever way so as to not allow you synergy with BOTH free peoples AND shadow from Serie to Serie. I would suggest the following Serie 2 pairings:

Gandalf & Rohan/Twilight Nazgul
UB Ranger/Berserker
Knights/Dunland

That way if you want corruption and nazgul OR archery/grind and berserkers your FP choices don't overlap.

[dmaz]

Proposed Pairings by Series
Serie 1:
Ringbound Companions/Easterlings & Gollum
Gandalf & Dwarves/Moria & Isengard Archery
Rohan Allies/Sauron Trackers (Grind)

Serie 2:
Knights/Dunland Discard
Unbound Rangers/Twilight Nazgul
Gandalf & Rohan/Berserkers

Serie 3:
Shoulder to Shoulder/Southrons
Hobbits & Smeagol/Rohirrim Traitors
Three Hunters/Uruk Trackers

The reason for moving the Three Hunters/Uruk Trackers to Series 3 is that all three of the fellowships seem more experimental and fragile in series 3.  By this time you should have decent companions, but it is not guaranteed.  This way you have to choose whether you fill in your fellowship with Elves/Dwarves, Hobbits or A REALLY good Aragorn (Def+1 is huge). 

It allows us to have good representation of the shadows early (sauron, moria, isengard archery, some Raider). Series 2 picks up the themes that were established in Mines and Battle (Berserkers, Dunland Discard, Twilight Nazgul).  Series 3 fills in interesting strategies with the first guaranteed Commander and additional Southron support and two additional fairly heavily condition dependent strategies.  This also keeps the major abuse from grind decks at a minimum.  The only major down side I see is that it does leave the pairing of Twilight Nazgul and Easterlings possible, but it is hard to add burdens vs. Ringbound, so there is a bit of a natural balance.

I think this is good and will be fine.

If it feels like the burden power of twilight nazgul and easterlings is too much, we can easily swap the three IWTBF with Resistance Becomes Unbearable. This would still make it possible to combine them, but would require more dedication for one strategy or the other.

Really, the only thing I still find goofy is that the knight deck has so much Ranger stuff in it, when we already have Ranger decks. I think we should just swap them for comparable Knight cards. There's really no reason not to.

[Eukalyptus]

How about this then?

2x Boromir, Steward's Heir
3x Gondorian Knight
1x Turgon, Man of Belfalas
1x Armor
1x Banner of Westernesse
2x Knight's Mount
3x Sword of Gondor
1x Hobbit Sword
1x Elendil's Valor
1x Fall Back
1x Might of Numenor
3x War Must Be
2x Sentinels of Numenor
2x Hobbit Intuition
1x Citadel of the Stars
3x City Wall
1x Garrison of Osgiliath
1x Ithilien Trap

[dmaz]

How about this then?

2x Boromir, Steward's Heir
3x Gondorian Knight
1x Turgon, Man of Belfalas
1x Armor
1x Banner of Westernesse
2x Knight's Mount
3x Sword of Gondor
1x Hobbit Sword
1x Elendil's Valor
1x Fall Back
1x Might of Numenor
3x War Must Be
2x Sentinels of Numenor
2x Hobbit Intuition
1x Citadel of the Stars
3x City Wall
1x Garrison of Osgiliath
1x Ithilien Trap

I'm for it. Everything is potentially playable now

If we end up finding we need to pull out any cards after playtesting this, we could always go with a Reckless Counter or something quasi-useful.

[Merrick_H]

I would suggest we swap some pairings in Serie 2 to prevent the "easy" choice of Rangers/Corruption in Serie 1 and then Ranger/Corruption in Serie 2, or Rohan/Exertion in Serie 1 and Rohan/Berserkers in Serie 2. I realize the rangers aren't quite the same but many cards work in both decks. The Revised Movie decks were set up in a clever way so as to not allow you synergy with BOTH free peoples AND shadow from Serie to Serie. I would suggest the following Serie 2 pairings:

Gandalf & Rohan/Twilight Nazgul
UB Ranger/Berserker
Knights/Dunland

That way if you want corruption and nazgul OR archery/grind and berserkers your FP choices don't overlap.

I like this idea and think it would be good to look into.  I'd like to get the thoughts of others though before making the changes.

[dmaz]

I would suggest we swap some pairings in Serie 2 to prevent the "easy" choice of Rangers/Corruption in Serie 1 and then Ranger/Corruption in Serie 2, or Rohan/Exertion in Serie 1 and Rohan/Berserkers in Serie 2. I realize the rangers aren't quite the same but many cards work in both decks. The Revised Movie decks were set up in a clever way so as to not allow you synergy with BOTH free peoples AND shadow from Serie to Serie. I would suggest the following Serie 2 pairings:

Gandalf & Rohan/Twilight Nazgul
UB Ranger/Berserker
Knights/Dunland

That way if you want corruption and nazgul OR archery/grind and berserkers your FP choices don't overlap.

I like this idea and think it would be good to look into.  I'd like to get the thoughts of others though before making the changes.

The only thing it would change would be the standard starter deck dynamic of each deck having a fellowship that plays well against its own shadow. I don't know if there's a reason for Decipher doing this, but it's always been this way....
I'm actually kind of curious to see if anyone knows why they might have done that?
Could it have been a marketing ploy just to get people to buy more decks if, for instance, each person had an Aragorn TT deck, and were tired of every match being a stalemate?
I sometimes try to figure out everything Decipher did from a logical gaming perspective and then need to remember a lot of their decisions were made based on the almighty dollar haha.

Anyway, doing it differently; the way you suggested, BigRedMF, might foster even more variation in peoples' deck choices.
For example, if someone is worried about their deck getting squashed by twilight Nazgul in serie 2, they might say "shucks, I better take the UB Ranger deck because it has ways of handling that".

[BigRedMF]

Well truthfully I think Rangers would play better against Berserkers than Rohan - since Rohan exerts Berserkers and makes them stronger. Neither Rohan nor Rangers really help much against corruption, so I don't know which fellowship would actually be considered "strong" against Twilight Nazgul.

In Revised Movie you have Rohan/Shire paired with Nazgul.  Rohan has no way of dealing with Nazgul conditions but they like to fight fierce minions with vitality - would be the same with Twilight Nazzies.

[dmaz]

Well truthfully I think Rangers would play better against Berserkers than Rohan - since Rohan exerts Berserkers and makes them stronger. Neither Rohan nor Rangers really help much against corruption, so I don't know which fellowship would actually be considered "strong" against Twilight Nazgul.

In Revised Movie you have Rohan/Shire paired with Nazgul.  Rohan has no way of dealing with Nazgul conditions but they like to fight fierce minions with vitality - would be the same with Twilight Nazzies.

I added some elements to the UB Ranger deck that would make it better against Twilight Nazgul corruption: Those versions of Frodo and Arwen, as well as the two Athelas for the Blade Tips.

Like you said, the Rohan would have a tough time against both. I tested Fortress Never Fallen, and we agree the cost is too small and its too easy to use to have in a starter, so the Rohan dudes will have to overcome the way they are built to do in the starters - winning skirmishes.

[dmaz]

With your suggestion, BigRedMF, here's what our serie 1 and 2 look like then.

Serie 1:
Ringbound Companions/Easterlings & Gollum
Gandalf & Dwarves/Moria & Isengard Archery
Rohan Allies/Sauron Trackers (Grind)

Serie 2:
Knights/Dunland Discard
Gandalf & Rohan/Twilight Nazgul
Unbound Rangers/Berserkers

We've done quite a bit of testing for those Serie 1 decks, and made some changes to every deck.
We can still test them a little more, but we could also dive into testing some of the Serie 2 decks against each other soon.

The only lists not currently on this threat are the Rohan and Berserker decks. They've been developed on the other thread for a little while now, though. Here's a draft of the deck, trying to combine all of the proposed ideas:

Valiant Rohirrim
Frodo, Mr. Underhill
Eowyn, Daughter of Eomund x2
Theoden, King of the Golden Hall x2
Household Guard x2
Gandalf, The White Wizard x2
Guma, Plains Farmer
Weland, Smith of the Riddermark
Ecglaf, Courageous Farmer
Brego
Horse of Rohan x2
Herugrim x2
Rider's Spear x2
Rohirrim Bow x2
Hobbit Sword x2
Wizard Staff
Trust Me As You Once Did x2
Parapet
Well Stored
Let Us Be Swift
An Honorable Charge x2

Notes: It was suggested to use Horse of Rohan instead of Rider's Mount. Since it's serie 2, and decks are now being combined, this would allow you to have a couple mounts to play on Gandy, your Elves, or other Gondor men. Less pumps in this one due to Trust Me as You Once Did. Well stored added for a little ally healing (allies aren't supposed to be the stars of the show, as in the other Rohan deck). No Eomer to try to keep the deck a little toned down for skirmishing power. Because of TMAYOD, less opportunities for base Str 9+ companions is better. In this deck no one should pass base strength 8.

Berserking Uruks
Berserk Rager x2
Uruk-Hai Berserker x4
Uruk Engineer x2
Uruk Sapper x3
Uruk Slayer x2
Uruk Shaman x2
Uruk-hai Raiding Party x3
Broad Bladed Sword x3
Uruk Spear
Battering Ram x2
Siege Engine
Assault Ladder x2
Bred for Battle x3
Black Shapes Crawling

Notes: There wasn't as much talk on this deck as the Rohan. We did drop one Assault Ladder for a Bred for Battle, as it was noted that Assault Ladders can get pretty crazy late game if you have more than 1 or 2. Any additional thoughts on this deck?
I'm considering switching the Siege Engine for a Scaling Ladder just so that if the FP is able to pull together some kind of condition discarding, the engines won't be invincible. That and Berserk Rager would be usable if you're up against mounted rohan...

[Merrick_H]

With your suggestion, BigRedMF, here's what our serie 1 and 2 look like then.

Serie 1:
Ringbound Companions/Easterlings & Gollum
Gandalf & Dwarves/Moria & Isengard Archery
Rohan Allies/Sauron Trackers (Grind)

Serie 2:
Knights/Dunland Discard
Gandalf & Rohan/Twilight Nazgul
Unbound Rangers/Berserkers

We've done quite a bit of testing for those Serie 1 decks, and made some changes to every deck.
We can still test them a little more, but we could also dive into testing some of the Serie 2 decks against each other soon.

The only lists not currently on this threat are the Rohan and Berserker decks. They've been developed on the other thread for a little while now, though. Here's a draft of the deck, trying to combine all of the proposed ideas:

Valiant Rohirrim
Frodo, Mr. Underhill
Eowyn, Daughter of Eomund x2
Theoden, King of the Golden Hall x2
Household Guard x2
Gandalf, The White Wizard x2
Guma, Plains Farmer
Weland, Smith of the Riddermark
Ecglaf, Courageous Farmer
Brego
Horse of Rohan x2
Herugrim x2
Rider's Spear x2
Rohirrim Bow x2
Hobbit Sword x2
Wizard Staff
Trust Me As You Once Did x2
Parapet
Well Stored
Let Us Be Swift
An Honorable Charge x2

Notes: It was suggested to use Horse of Rohan instead of Rider's Mount. Since it's serie 2, and decks are now being combined, this would allow you to have a couple mounts to play on Gandy, your Elves, or other Gondor men. Less pumps in this one due to Trust Me as You Once Did. Well stored added for a little ally healing (allies aren't supposed to be the stars of the show, as in the other Rohan deck). No Eomer to try to keep the deck a little toned down for skirmishing power. Because of TMAYOD, less opportunities for base Str 9+ companions is better. In this deck no one should pass base strength 8.

Berserking Uruks
Berserk Rager x2
Uruk-Hai Berserker x4
Uruk Engineer x2
Uruk Sapper x3
Uruk Slayer x2
Uruk Shaman x2
Uruk-hai Raiding Party x3
Broad Bladed Sword x3
Uruk Spear
Battering Ram x2
Siege Engine
Assault Ladder x2
Bred for Battle x3
Black Shapes Crawling

Notes: There wasn't as much talk on this deck as the Rohan. We did drop one Assault Ladder for a Bred for Battle, as it was noted that Assault Ladders can get pretty crazy late game if you have more than 1 or 2. Any additional thoughts on this deck?
I'm considering switching the Siege Engine for a Scaling Ladder just so that if the FP is able to pull together some kind of condition discarding, the engines won't be invincible. That and Berserk Rager would be usable if you're up against mounted rohan...

I would nix the LUBS - This is in series 2 and if people go double rohan, having the capability to discard conditions is going to be huge.  Granted it requires 3 valiant, but the pumps and healing you get in series 1 will make it VERY hard not to pick up this in conjunction, even if the shadows don't match at all.  I'd probably also pull the Parapet.  Tokens are going to be hard enough to get as the uruks are still crazy expensive through 4 and healing as well as anti-archery is huge.  Couple a shield pull for more healing/anti-archery and Rohan has just about everything except burden removal between these two decks.

The uruks look pretty good.  I forgot that all of the good Berserkers were rare.  Makes for an interesting deck.  Love the Shaman and Slayers in here.  Might want to consider dropping an Uruk-Hai Berserker for an Advance Uruk Patrol.  Siege engine will turbo-charge the other machines, so we'll want to consider dropping that, but I'd like to leave it in for now.  Consider making this deck's anti-6 the Uruk Warrior?

[dmaz]

Maybe swap No Rest For the Weary for the LUBS. Still gives you the Valiant theme, while providing a Rohan version of Elendil's Valor, so to speak.