Author Topic: Hobbit movie (Read 12346 times)

Panch · « **on:** November 06, 2014, 04:20:00 PM »

Set to be released Dec. 17th, but thats a Wednesday...... shouldnt it be atleast the 19th since its friday, or mayb say the 18th at midnight which would still be the 19th friday? or am i missing something?

thetimewarptrio · « **Reply #1 on:** November 07, 2014, 03:32:47 AM »

Yeah, seems a little strange. Technically, the 18th at midnight would still be the 18th, but it is being released on a Wednesday, perhaps to capitalize more on the pre-Christmas season. It's also the latest release date for any movie in the Hobbit "trilogy", as the other two were released on the 12th and 13th I believe.

Also, Exodus : Gods and Kings is set to release on the 12th, so they probably don't want to put two major releases then. My guess is they're just looking to capitalize on the holiday season a little early on.

simplegarak · « **Reply #2 on:** November 07, 2014, 05:16:42 AM »

IIRC, ALL the LotR movies were released on a wed to give them long initial weekend runs.

(Fellowship was on 12/19 as well - also a wed)

dmaz · « **Reply #3 on:** November 07, 2014, 05:29:35 AM »

Quote from: NateWinchester on November 07, 2014, 05:16:42 AM

IIRC, ALL the LotR movies were released on a wed to give them long initial weekend runs.

(Fellowship was on 12/19 as well - also a wed)

Ahhhh so that's their trick! Never understood that, thanks!

thetimewarptrio · « **Reply #4 on:** December 22, 2014, 01:40:59 AM »

Any thoughts on the last one? I just saw it last night, and had two main thoughts.

1. Deus Ex Machinia

2. I've never seen a director rip off his own movies more than Peter Jackson did in TBOFA. Just.....wow. Same exact Moria drum beat and window torches. Same war chant as the orcs out of Mordor. Marching very invocative of The Two Towers and ROTK.

The battle seemed unending and tedious, and it didn't cut away very well. The first half of the movie wasn't that bad though. Pretty disappointed in this "trilogy".

Ringbearer · « **Reply #5 on:** December 22, 2014, 02:06:37 AM »

Too much emphasis on the battle, which is in the book not a move by Sauron but a plundering goblin army. Tolkiens note give in that it was a small and rather unimportant battle.

Also what good can 13 warriors do if the Iron dwarves army cant hold ground.

It is in line with the rest of the Hobbit Trilogy, which I find too drawn out and too much emphasis on what is basically 1.5 chapter of the book.

thetimewarptrio · « **Reply #6 on:** December 22, 2014, 04:02:54 AM »

The paragraphs about it did note that it was a terrible battle, but since the book was called "The Hobbit", and Bilbo was knocked out for most of it, there wasn't much detail. I was okay with the battle being expounded upon, especially seeing that the series has a LOT less emphasis on Bilbo (which is very stupid), but it was pretty long and badly paced. I did LOL when the tide turned with an extra 13 dwarves. Unless they all have mithril axes and armor, it's not gonna do a whole lot.

I was happy when The Hobbit was announced, directed by Del Toro, and in two movies, especially with appendix content added. Very disappointed when it was moved to Jackson, drawn out to three movies, and left Azog in, who didn't last a page in the ROTK appendicies. Also, the Dol Guldur timeline was incorrect, and the addition of Gundabad was dumb/rather pointless.

I will still hold that the second installment was by far the worst. It made for a very poorly paced trilogy.

Carl333 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 22, 2014, 09:57:48 AM »

If by the second installment, you mean The Desolation of Smaug, i am going to have to disagree with you. I felt it wast the best out of the three hobbit movies. However, if you are meaning the Hobbit Trilogy vs the Lord of the Rings Trilogy, i thought the whole Lord of the Rings Trilogy was significantly better that the Hobbit Trilogy.

thetimewarptrio · « **Reply #8 on:** December 22, 2014, 10:09:37 AM »

No, no I meant the Desolation of Smaug. Nothing really happened in it. There was no climax, there was no resolution. A very poor standalone film.

Not to mention how far it deviated from the book, the whole dwarves entering the mountain bit, the Master of Lake-town eating balls, Bard the "Bargeman", Dwarf-Elf romances that begin with a penis joke, Gandalf being imprisoned at Dol Guldur, the barrel scene, Legolas vs. Bolg, and everything with Azog and Tauriel.

I love the Middle-Earth universe.........but man these prequels rank up there with the Star Wars ones as just plain bad.

Ringbearer · « **Reply #9 on:** December 22, 2014, 10:37:59 AM »

It simply deviates too far away from the book.

macheteman · « **Reply #10 on:** January 03, 2015, 07:52:28 AM »

I BUSTED out laughing when the random War Goats came running onto the screen without ANY hint of foreshadowing.

BigRedMF · « **Reply #11 on:** January 03, 2015, 09:56:51 AM »

I agree. I absolutely love the LotR trilogy, but the Hobbit "trilogy" was obviously a marketing scheme to build off that success. The fact that the LotR movies had to cut stuff OUT from the books to make them fit into 3.5 hours of film made them so much better than the Hobbit adding all kinds of random false canon IN so they could stretch it as far as they wanted. I enjoyed the first Hobbit movie, was a irritated at the second one for many of the reasons stated above, and then really just wished the third movie would end not long after I started watching. The battle was just way too overdone and it went on forever.

They never really showed what became of Bard and Dale, just kind of left him in the city even before the battle was over and never came back to him. And I thought the part with Thranduil and Legolas at the end was just too dumb. It makes me wonder why they didn't show Gandalf meeting Aragorn at some point just to make sure people knew that they really did know each other before the LotR trilogy.

I will say I really enjoyed Martin Freeman and I think the films did a very good job with Bilbo as a character.

ununtrium · « **Reply #12 on:** January 03, 2015, 11:13:02 AM »

The Hobbit trilogy is clearly marred by the filmakers milking the franchise as much as possible. All decisions related to making the film were based on market research.

To put it in a nutshell:
- Everything that did not have mass appeal was left out or was changed.
- Only those story elements were left unchanged that did not get in the way of making the movie appeal to the biggest-possible audience.
- If anything could possibly be added to make more people go and see the movie(S), the filmakers put it in.

Bottom line:
- The producers put financial gain first and things like artistic merit or remaining faithful to the book/story last.
- What I am left with are three movies I would rather care to forget than watch again.

P.S.: I like Martin Freeman as Bilbo, too. Otherwise, lots of wasted opportunities there!

thetimewarptrio · « **Reply #13 on:** January 03, 2015, 11:36:55 AM »

I'll definitely get on board with everything you guys are saying. The one moment I wish was in LoTR was Gandalf denying the Witch King entrance to Minas Tirith..........THAT WOULD'VE BEEN SO BOSS.

The cast is honestly pretty fantastic for The Hobbit (other than Tauriel, who shouldn't have ever been made). It's just.......ugh the scriptwriting. It's like they forgot how to write.

Tauriel - "Take this love away from me, why does it hurt so much?!?!"

Thranduil - "Because it was real."

thetimewarptrio - *hysterically bursts out in laughter, ruining the moment for the whole theater*

I didn't mind the first one. The second one was awful, and the second half of the last one was pretty bad. I would've been okay with Bolg as a main villain, because he's actually in the books....plus it would've been cool to see Dain slay Azog at the gates of Moria as he did in the RoTK appendices.

Sigh. I could rant on this forever.

Carl333 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2015, 04:03:16 PM »

Im gonna have to agree with all of you on that, The Lord of the rings Trilogy was definitely better than The Hobbit trilogy. I felt they could have left out all the Tauriel and Azog junk. I am going to have to say I did love the scene at Dol Guldur in the third hobbit film though. Aside from stabbing an orc in the first scene in the Fellowship of the Ring, it was the first time we were able to really see Elrond fight.

dmaz · « **Reply #15 on:** January 04, 2015, 07:27:00 PM »

Meh, haters gonna hate
I expected that it would be different from the book, so I just accepted that and enjoyed it from an entertaining standpoint. I liked it a lot, though I would have liked to see Beorn a little more

thetimewarptrio · « **Reply #16 on:** January 04, 2015, 07:37:14 PM »

Speaking of this ^ MORE BEORN HULK CHANGING IN MIDAIR. Loved that.

bibfortuna25 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 04, 2015, 10:20:12 PM »

Quote from: thetimewarptrio on January 03, 2015, 11:36:55 AM

I'll definitely get on board with everything you guys are saying. The one moment I wish was in LoTR was Gandalf denying the Witch King entrance to Minas Tirith..........THAT WOULD'VE BEEN SO BOSS.

That moment was in the EE, just not exactly how it was in the book:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TTB5t_4Nlc

thetimewarptrio · « **Reply #18 on:** January 05, 2015, 07:29:06 AM »

Quote from: bibfortuna25 on January 04, 2015, 10:20:12 PM

Quote from: thetimewarptrio on January 03, 2015, 11:36:55 AM
I'll definitely get on board with everything you guys are saying. The one moment I wish was in LoTR was Gandalf denying the Witch King entrance to Minas Tirith..........THAT WOULD'VE BEEN SO BOSS.

That moment was in the EE, just not exactly how it was in the book:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TTB5t_4Nlc

Right, I know. That's my whole issue with it haha. Gandalf vs. Witch King and Gandalf wins.....not his staff exploding. I want the old man on top of the unmoving horse, fully denying him entrance. Oh well.

bibfortuna25 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 05, 2015, 07:40:50 AM »

Then you might enjoy this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX-ybJUz-rk

dmaz · « **Reply #20 on:** January 05, 2015, 12:33:46 PM »

Quote from: bibfortuna25 on January 05, 2015, 07:40:50 AM

Then you might enjoy this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX-ybJUz-rk

Ah these are classics

For me, RotK will always bring to mind "Frodoooo of the niiiine fingers, and the ring of doooom", and "Where there's a whip, there's a way" before the Peter Jackson version

Mortalsword · « **Reply #21 on:** January 08, 2015, 12:53:30 AM »

Hey gang!

New to the group, so I guess a movie thread is a good place to jump in.

While watching this trilogy, I repeatedly found myself slipping into a bit of a funk. The unnecessary changes, the completely absurd action sequences, and complete betrayal of the actual source material really got to me.

With LotR, Jackson had a slavish devotion to making the those films the best he possibly could, while remaining loyal to the source material. For the most part, things were omitted, not changed completely. Certainly not bastardized to such a degree it is hardly akin to the source.

The parallel to the new Star Wars films is astounding. The big take away from the prequels for Star Wars for me was that Lucas had created this monster that was beyond his ability to control. Greed, of both the personal and corporate kind reigned supreme, and the heart and soul of the project was thrown out for cash grabs. The Pod Racing still resonates to me as the perfect example of toy marketing somehow taking over the entire second act of a film, and the second Hobbit film was no different. The barrel riding scenes were completely ridiculous, unbelievable and depressing for me. I felt the same about a lot of this third film, because it became impossible to continue to suspend my disbelief. I don't know if I could have watched another scene where Legolas did increasingly more impossible things. Then of course there is Bard's wagon ride which is sure to show up in a themepark soon. The battle had elements of greatness, but felt nothing like the epic battles in LotR. The goats....by the Gods, the goats. I love the idea of dwarves riding mountain goats, but I don't love the idea of fully barded goats carrying fully armoured dwarves bounding up icy cliff faces like it's no big deal. That could have been represented in a much more realistic fashion, and it would have been even more exciting that way.

I dunno, maybe I'm just a grumpy gus at this point. Seeing LotR come to life was one of the greatest joys of my life, and watching The Hobbit get dragged trough the mud to sell toys just broke my heart.

thetimewarptrio · « **Reply #22 on:** January 08, 2015, 01:34:46 AM »

Quote from: Mortalsword on January 08, 2015, 12:53:30 AM

Hey gang!

New to the group, so I guess a movie thread is a good place to jump in.

While watching this trilogy, I repeatedly found myself slipping into a bit of a funk. The unnecessary changes, the completely absurd action sequences, and complete betrayal of the actual source material really got to me.

With LotR, Jackson had a slavish devotion to making the those films the best he possibly could, while remaining loyal to the source material. For the most part, things were omitted, not changed completely. Certainly not bastardized to such a degree it is hardly akin to the source.

The parallel to the new Star Wars films is astounding. The big take away from the prequels for Star Wars for me was that Lucas had created this monster that was beyond his ability to control. Greed, of both the personal and corporate kind reigned supreme, and the heart and soul of the project was thrown out for cash grabs. The Pod Racing still resonates to me as the perfect example of toy marketing somehow taking over the entire second act of a film, and the second Hobbit film was no different. The barrel riding scenes were completely ridiculous, unbelievable and depressing for me. I felt the same about a lot of this third film, because it became impossible to continue to suspend my disbelief. I don't know if I could have watched another scene where Legolas did increasingly more impossible things. Then of course there is Bard's wagon ride which is sure to show up in a themepark soon. The battle had elements of greatness, but felt nothing like the epic battles in LotR. The goats....by the Gods, the goats. I love the idea of dwarves riding mountain goats, but I don't love the idea of fully barded goats carrying fully armoured dwarves bounding up icy cliff faces like it's no big deal. That could have been represented in a much more realistic fashion, and it would have been even more exciting that way.

I dunno, maybe I'm just a grumpy gus at this point. Seeing LotR come to life was one of the greatest joys of my life, and watching The Hobbit get dragged trough the mud to sell toys just broke my heart.

First off, welcome!

Secondly, yeah I gotta say I agree. It truly is a shame that it turned out that way, but there was so much potential in this series. A great cast, great source material. I think 2 films would've been sufficient, but three is obviously overkill. Unless you're trying to make money of course.

Linarfin · « **Reply #23 on:** January 08, 2015, 11:47:43 AM »

Someone will have to do the "purist edit", like with LOTR movies, but this time to make just one watchable movie from all this mess..

BigRedMF · « **Reply #24 on:** January 08, 2015, 02:53:26 PM »

Oh man, I just remembered Legolas running up stones that were literally falling...

Legion · « **Reply #25 on:** January 08, 2015, 03:34:07 PM »

I really wanted to enjoy the 3 films, and to honestly believe that there could realistically be 3 films, and I suppose I did at least do the former... just. What I found most disappointing was that almost all of the additions to spin it out another 2.5 hours were all so lame. I could just about tolerate Tauriel, and I did actually quite like Radagast, but I really hated the Dol Guldur scenes from both the second and third films (except for when Elrond arrived-he's still cool). There was just no need, and it makes the Nazgul look so different to in LotR. Also, what was with Thorin running off like that with Dwalin, Kili and Fili at the end? Their leader had gone into hiding, so get back to the battle and make yourself visible! And what was Dwalin doing when Thorin was in trouble? Azog was meant to be dead by this stage, right (didn't Dain kill him at the battle outside Moria?). Remove Bolg and replace every Azog with the name Bolg and you have the villain of the book. No need for Alfred, or really much from Bard's famiily, Cut all that and you have 2 films. Also if Thorin had kept to the book and fought with everyone else, you'd have given Beorn and the Eagles a decent showing. Apart from the way the book just said essentially "Kili and Fili died-oh well" everything the book did was better (in my opinion).

On the subject of Dain, though, he was my absolute favourite character. Whoever decided that all dwarves should be grumpy Scotsmen absolutely made the entire series for me. Something about the line "Do you hear that, lads? We're on!" when totally outnumbered against Elves and Men was just brilliant to the extent that headbutting orcs wearing helmets whilst not wearing one yourself just seemed in keeping with Dain's gung-ho attitude and obvious sense of invincibility. Plus he rides a pig into battle-absolute hero (though it is not as cool as Hobbit Farmer foil's pig). And I've never even liked Billy Connolly. Thranduil was good, too. Very elven and I'm still not sure if I like him or not.

Legolas on the stones was there for the 3D, and I hope will be removed from the DVD, but that is unlikely. For unrealistic special effects, I prefer Bombur in the barrel scene. The first 2 films were at least aimed at the younger audience, just like the book, so I don't think it was out of place.

One more thing: where was the cool score in the second and third films? LotR had some great tunes, and the dwarven theme from the first was quite catchy, too. Why was it never replayed (or even replaced) in the other films? That must be my biggest gripe with number 2, which otherwise was my favourite of the three.

thetimewarptrio · « **Reply #26 on:** January 09, 2015, 03:12:46 AM »

Dol Guldur could've been fantastic if it was presented as it actually was in the books. Gandalf discovering the true identity of the Necromancer, and obtaining the map and key from Thrain after sneaking in. They could've even bumped up the razing of the Dol Guldur in the actual LotR timeline and I would've been okay with that. I was so amped in the first movie when they showed the flashback to the Battle of Azanulbizar, because I figured it'd show Dain slaying Azog and the whole bag of coins and beggar scene..........but nope.

Totally agree about Dain and the score. It seems like for the score all they did was copy music from LotR, and add a bit of a Dale theme whilst dropping the Dwarven theme for the most part, which I loved. It was good, but could've been better. I'll need to buy the soundtrack to actually think about it. Doesn't touch Return of the King soundtrack, which I used to play on my CD walkman over and over and over again.

idleninja · « **Reply #27 on:** January 14, 2015, 11:10:09 PM »

When Legolas went Super Mario I had the same feeling I did when I saw Kingdom of the Crystal Skull when Shia swings around in the jungle with monkeys.

The Hobbit was a great Disney movie, but it wasn't LotR.

BigRedMF · « **Reply #28 on:** January 15, 2015, 04:01:51 AM »

I was just thinking again yesterday about how they screwed up the dragon shooting scene. Why was there no windlass in the city? Why did they feel the need to make Bard create a huge bow? And to top it off, he had to aim it off his son's shoulder! And how in the world did the bow not slap his son straight off the tower when it was released? So many things were just unnecessary.

sgtdraino · « **Reply #29 on:** January 15, 2015, 07:43:03 AM »

Finally got to see it!

For the most part, I have to admit, I enjoyed it. It's not a particularly serious film, but for me it was a fun film. It's definitely closer to popcorn than serious art, though. I liked it more than the previous two, though (obviously) not as much as the LOTR trilogy. Yes, there were some pretty ridiculous parts that me and my buddy were laughing at.

In particular I found the Wargoats funny. Not because of what they were, but because they literally came out of nowhere! It would have been so easy to establish those Wargoats, show some of the Dwarfs riding in on them, but no. They don't exist, until they are suddenly needed by our Dwarf heroes. Deus ex Wargoats!

Seriously, does anyone know where the Wargoats came from? did the Eagles drop them in, or something?

I liked Dol Guldur, but I agree about the Nazgul. In this trilogy it seemed like they were literally ghosts or wraiths zipping around, not (basically) invisible zombies. I prefer invisible zombies!

Quote from: Mortalsword on January 08, 2015, 12:53:30 AM

The big take away from the prequels for Star Wars for me was that Lucas had created this monster that was beyond his ability to control. Greed, of both the personal and corporate kind reigned supreme, and the heart and soul of the project was thrown out for cash grabs.

I have to disagree about this. IMO the prequels sucked not because they were beyond Lucas's ability to control, but because he had TOO MUCH control over them. Nobody said "no" to Lucas for those movies, and just about all the stuff in them that fans hate, are things that Lucas thought were cool.

simplegarak · « **Reply #30 on:** January 20, 2015, 09:20:15 AM »

Yep. Watch the redlettermedia reviews of the SW prequels if you haven't, but Lucas is exhibit A in the saying: "Art from Adversity".

Now we might add LotR to that too. The first trilogy was hard on the makers, and true art resulted. The Hobbit... you can tell it was less challenging to them.

Looking forward to the fan edit.

Mythdracon · « **Reply #31 on:** January 27, 2015, 02:21:30 PM »

I was really disappointed by the Hobbit trilogy as a whole, but some moments, like Bilbo's Riddles in the Dark with Gollum, were as perfect as I had hoped for. I wish more of the whimsy of the books had been in--like Bilbo throwing rocks at the spiders and taunting them, the Elven feast in the forest clearing, and so on. Too many moments were Peter Jackson trying to make the Hobbit into another LOTR, and I didn't appreciate that at all. The tonal differences in the book vis a vis LOTR should have been taken more seriously, even with dark and scary Dol Guldur in there.

The fan edit sounds interesting....but wouldn't it arguably violate copyright law? I don't know if it's truly fair use to simply cut up a movie and split some things out.