Fellowship Sealed League Strategies on Gemp

[sgtdraino]

What do experienced players think are the best strategies to use when playing the Fellowship Block Sealed League on Gemp? I've put this in Valinor (and not Fellowship), because the Gemp starter decks are not quite standard, and sometimes Gemp adds additional cards into the mix. So, let's pursue a number of questions about this type of league, to hopefully give newer players some insight into it:

1. All things being equal, which starter deck do you think is smartest to pick each series? (see poll at the top) Why?

2. The starters are the LOTR Online versions, seen at this link:

http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,9119.0/topicseen.html

ETA: For Series 1, players choose either the Aragorn or Gandalf starter, receive 6 Fellowship of the Rings boosters, and also receive the following cards:
Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul x2

ETA: For Series 2, players choose either the Gimli or Gandalf starter, receive 3 Mines of Moria boosters, and also receive the following card:
The Balrog, Durin's Bane

ETA: For Series 3, players choose either the Boromir or Legolas starter, and receive 3 Realms of the Elf Lords boosters.

ETA: For Series 4, players receive 2 Fellowship of the Rings boosters, 2 Mines of Moria boosters, and 2 Realms of the Elf Lords boosters.

3. What are some other useful strategies to heed, when preparing for this meta? For example, I've heard it is smart to open your boosters before you choose your starter, in case you get a great rare that works better with one starter than another. What are some other strategies?

[Cthulhu]

FotR Sealed has a special place in my heart being the first LotR Sealed I've  played not only on Gemp but ever (havent played LotR sealed IRL), also the first sealed I Top 4-ed on Gemp.

1. Aragorn - Gandalf - Legolas

I would almost certainly pick Aragorn 1st serie, the only card that could make me consider Moria is Goblin Swarms. That one though is the biggest bomb this sealed, winning you most games where you draw it early. Otherwise playing Moria swarm is a difficult thing and plenty of NPE in a format where everyone has bunch of stealths and Boromir SoD (the key comp in FotR sealed) in starters, and can add a Frying Pan from a 3rd serie's starter, not to mention thats a common and not that hard to pull from boosters too. Thats not to say it cant be done if you have a plan and know how to execute it, a player (I think it was smaug) has won FotR sealed with Moria with small Isengard splash for Snows and tracker splash for Tol Brandir, he always moved 1 site at a time and prepared the Snows bomb, with Tol Brandir as a backup plan if that failed. This has some weaknesses though, say if they discard your Snows. Speaking of which discard is actually a factor here, because its attached to some good cards for sealed (Uruk Rager, Uruk Soldier - you have 7 of those total in Aragorn starter) as opposed to the crappy cards discard decks use in Constructed.

2nd serie is easy pick for me again - Gandalf starter has excellent comps, that can fill some of your deck holes (worst series 1 are those where you dont pull any comp, except some unplayable stuff like Lorien Elf, and I was forced to play those once too..) The only thing I like in Gimli starter that Gandalf doesnt have is Thrarin and Gimli, but I'll take The Grey Pilgrim over Gimli any day.

3d serie I usually pick Legolas for the following good reasons - Frying Pan, Bread for Battle, Snows, also Foul Creation if i have pulled some good elven allies (as those in the starter are not). The promo Boromir is way worse than SoD (again, key comp this sealed, you win most games when you have him healed before making your final moves), sauron orcs have nothing that appeals to me, the only interesting thing Boromir starter has for me is Might of Numenor, and the posibility of Boromir's Cloak if you face bunch of Moria Snows.


2. We get 2x shotgun  Enquea 1st serie and a common Balrog the 2nd. Both are not so strong. I'd rather have Enquea in some of the others sealeds, as FotR block is not known for having too many good comps, especially when you try to get them from packs. Still its a good minion to have 1st serie so you dont have to play crap like Their Arrows Enrage and stuff like that, and I usually keep them both for next series too, unles I open lots of good uruk stuff.  Durin's Bane on the other hand is just awful, it clogs your hand - I'd much rather play 3 uruks on Bridge and unload my hand so i can draw more FP for my turn, and usually they deal more damage and force more stops too. I love when this guy is the only thing they play on site 5, it means easy double for me after a stealth and a random event on Gorn. Armor or Filibert make him look even more silly. The only good thing going for him is the Snows combo some people like (play some isenguard minion, play Snows, play Durin's Bane) but even that is not so scarry if you have a Thrarin or some disposable comps like Pipin, or bunch of other things like Rangers Sword (which is as good as a rare btw, as is The Prancing Pony), so I never went for it. Note that the rare Balrog is a good addition to your Moria deck, if you manage to pull him from packs.

NOTE: Aragorn list has a typo, the real one has - 1 Shaman, - 1 Soldier, I bought a Gorn starter to verify that.

No deluxe starters in sealed leagues are used indeed.


3. Its much better for new players to discover those strategies for themselves, than trying to follow blindly other people's path, it makes you a better player not to mention that some things that work for them may not work for you or your playstyle. For example I hate Moria here, but smaug won the sealed with Moria, and best I have with uruks is a 2nd place.


Hope that helps.

[BigRedMF]

I've only played sealed FotR one time, but definitely have some takeaways.

1. Aragorn, Gandalf, Legolas
Series 1 is the only chance to get Aragorn, unless you pull him in a booster. Having Gandalf is typically beneficial, even if just for his drawing ability. On the shadow side, honestly both shadows in series 1 can be very strong depending on what you get to mix/add, and depending on how smartly you play. Uruks generally seem to be better at creating stops so your fellowship can march ahead of your opponent. Sauron didn't seem to be too effective to me, but again there might be a key card or two that make it shine.

2. Cthulu is correct. In case his note wasn't clear about the Aragorn starter, there are only 3xShamans and 3xSoldiers on the shadow side (instead of the 4x of each listed in the FAQ link).

3. It is always best to open boosters first, unless you just have a strong desire to choose one of the decks for some reason. If you pull a Ranger's Sword, you better be choosing the Aragorn starter. Besides Dwarf weapons and Hobbit Swords, all other weapons are rare (with the exception of Ranger's Sword). Weapons make a HUGE difference in FotR for the fellowship. If your strongest companion is an 8 (Aragorn) you are going to lose a lot of skirmishes, even to Moria. Double moves against Moria is frequently impossible, and Uruk damage +1 really hurts, unless you can consistently win skirmishes.

[sgtdraino]

Great information guys! Gold for both of you. I've added the new info you've provided to post #1.

So, no additional fixed cards for series 3?

How many boosters do we get each series? I'm guessing that, for series 4, we get more boosters and a choice of which set to pull them from. How many, and which sets do you think you'd pick boosters from? Or is that pretty much entirely dependent on what you've drawn so far?

OR is there no actual choice in series 4, and you just get an equal number of boosters from each set?

I was leaning towards Aragorn, Gandalf, Boromir, but I think you've both collectively convinced me that Legolas is the better choice.

[Cthulhu]

OR is there no actual choice in series 4, and you just get an equal number of boosters from each set?

Correct. Revised Movie is the only sealed where we can choose sets for those packs.

I have no memory of additional fixed cards in serie 3.

[Eukalyptus]

Series 1 - 1 starter choice, 6 packs of FotR
Series 2 - 1 starter choice, 3 packs of MoM
Series 3 - 1 starter choice, 3 packs of RotEL
Series 4 - 2 packs of each FotR, MoM and RotEL, totaling 6 packs

[sgtdraino]

Thanks for the info, Euk. Gold for you!

[GreenRebel]

What is a good deck size ? I am guessing since there is not much choke decks out there, and since minions are cheap, that 35-37 cards for one side is good enough ?

[Cthulhu]

No, good deck size in any sealed is 60 cards, 62 tops.

[sgtdraino]

I have occasionally found decks as large as 72 cards to be effective in a sealed league, but no larger than that. And that was in a different format, different meta.

[dmaz]

If your booster pulls are neutral, Aragorn is a good start, just to shield you from exerting everyone at site 7. From there on, it could really go any direction. A lot will depend on your booster pulls.

However, opening series, your choice of starter should center more around what you pulled for Fellowship cards than Shadow. To pick Moria based on the fact that you pulled a Relics of Moria or Goblin Swarms would be quite foolish since there's a decent chance they will just get discarded by Sleep, especially if you have some FP cards that are going unused as a result.

One advantage to the Gandalf deck as a start is your ability to cycle so well. They Are Coming will help you so many times get rid of either your FP or Shadow cards depending on what you are planning to do next. It's weakness against fighting Uruk's Damage+1 can be offset a bit by just taking advantage of all your pumps available.

I had to go Gandalf this time around due to poor pulls for companions in the boosters, and needing the guaranteed Gimli to spot for Farin. Not optimal to run a fellowship trying to survive on pumps, but whatevs.

[sgtdraino]

Now that I've finished my 12 games for this series, I'll give my report!

I went with the Aragorn starter, as did most of the opponents I played against.

My pulls were HORRIBLE. I literally got the shaft. I got NO WEAPONS other than the 2x Hobbit Sword that came in the starter. 4 of my 6 rares were essentially unusable: Dark Whispers (no Nazgul besides the 2x Shotgun Enquea), The Pale Blade (No Witch-king), The Council of Elrond (no useful tales), And Mithril SHAFT (sucks). My 2 good pulls were Gimli, Son of Gloin and Power According to His Stature, the latter of which did win me one of my 3 wins this series. The only additional companions I got were the aforementioned Gimli, and a Dwarf Guard.

The first 8 games I played were all losses. I initially tried starting Gimli and Legolas, bid 1 or 2, and would go first. I'd end up out in front, at which point my opponent would win via Shadow kill. Eventually I came to the conclusion that, for this series anyway, it's better to go second. Especially if your Fellowship is weak. It's also better to start Aragorn, even though that probably means I won't be able to get the Dwarf Guard out. I didn't try to race to the end anymore, and just concentrated on keeping my FP alive, and building for a Shadow kill. I won the next 3 games, then narrowly lost the last game.

Overall impressions:

I get the feeling that the booster pulls in this league, at least in series 1, have a HUGE impact on how well you are going to do, a significantly bigger impact than in other sealed leagues I've participated in. Even something as simple as The Prancing Pony or Ranger's Sword can give a player a tremendous advantage over other players. I suspect the pulls in series 1 are going to have a big impact on the various series after that too, since most of the decent possessions are in FotR packs. You won't be getting any more Ranger's Sword, Armor, Elven Bow, Asfaloth, or Dwarven Axe (unless you go for the weaker Gimli MoM deck) until maaybe Series 4, to say nothing of Blade of Gondor, Glamdring, Gwemegil, Bow of the Galadhrim, or Aragorn's Bow. No other chances to get The Prancing Pony, either. The only gear MoM packs have for you is rare Flaming Brand (when you're unlikely to face many Nazgul), weak Hand Axe, uncommon Dwarven Bracers, and a Wizard Staff that you'll be getting anyway in the Gandalf MoM deck.

I'm actually thinking of going for that Gimli MoM deck now, simple because there are at least a lot of companions in it, as well as a fair bit of gear and pumps to work with my rare Gimli.

[zen89]

The only way I really differ from the advice being given is that I prefer the Gimli starter for the Mines of Moria. Maybe I'm crazy.

After selecting the FotR Aragorn starter (generally agreed best option), the relevant cards I see in each deck are as follows:

Gandalf

1xFarmer Maggot's Fields

2x Gandalf, The Grey Pilgrim
2x Boromir, Son of Denethor
2x Merry, From O'er the Brandywine
1x Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor
2x Wizard Staff
3x Intimidate
4x Mysterious Wizard
4x Strength of Spirit
1x Elendil's Valor
2x Swordarm of the White Tower
2x Hobbit Intuition

3x Goblin Runner

Gimli

3x Dwarf Guard
2x Farin, Dwarven Emissary
2x Gimli, Dwarf of the Mountain-race
1x Thrarin, Dwarven Smith
1x Dwarven Armor
2x Dwarven Axe
2x Hand Axe
3x Axe Strike
4x Flurry of Blows
2x Here Lies Balin, Son of Fundin
2x Hobbit Intuition

Nothing else provides much value. The reason I like Gimli is that one can start him and build the deck around him (he's an excellent skirmisher and also makes sites 4 and 5 much easier)--Farin and the Dwarf Guards get you to nine companions, which allows you to pitch guys to Uruks, and Thrarin is an absolutely phenomenal card. Also, Here Lies Balin is very underrated, and is one of the reasons Moria struggles after Serie One. Nor is Hand Axe weak--minion vitality is in short supply even for Uruks, who need their vitality for Bred for Battle. All in all, Gimli is a very solid companion.

From the Gandalf starter, I like site one (starting Gimli/Legolas/Merry is very nice), Merry is a nice companion, and the I like the Goblin Runners. But I find Gandalf himself to be quite overrated. He really, really, needs his toys to be good, and at that point you're devoting most of your deck space to a character who you need to start or risk draw-screw (though Farmer Maggot's fields make this more feasible), who operates almost entirely through events, and who generates a ton of twilight.

Maybe I'll try picking him this time since, at 8-4, I'm likely already out of the money, but in general I prefer Gimli.

[Cthulhu]

But I find Gandalf himself to be quite overrated. He really, really, needs his toys to be good, and at that point you're devoting most of your deck space to a character who you need to start or risk draw-screw

I disagree. In all FotR Sealeds so far I've played him just as splash (ie 2x Gandalf being the only gandalf cards I play, also never started him) and he did great. The fact that he draws you an extra card every single turn makes him pay his slot in the deck 1 turn after you draw him, and then the card advantage he generates is just gravy. In the meantime he gets healed every turn by KiE, and 7 strength and 4 vitality means 1 uruk event is usually not enough to bring him down.

If anyone need his toys to be any good its Gimli, look of all the mediocre stuff you have to fit in for him not to die to the first uruk and to justify picking that starter.

I've pulled a Glamdring this time so Ill try to fit that come next serie, but I dont intend to bring any more  gandalf stuff I dont need and I won't start him, and I expect him to be a worthy addition of my deck as he always is.

[zen89]

I think if I were planning on single stepping through the site path, I'd be much higher on Gandalf. He's pretty tough to kill for Uruks that way due to the four vitality and KiE healing.

But for a sealed deck that wants to double move, Gandalf doesn't offer nearly as much as Gimli. He can't kill anything, and his four vitality doesn't help as much when he's guaranteed to lose both skirmishes of a double move. He also costs four twilight. Gimli can start, helps choke on several sites, and can kill Uruks with one skirmish event (of which there are a ton).

I'm not fitting in the other stuff (axes, bracers, events), I'm using it because it's really good--Gimli is the most reliable companion in the format, outside of a Ranger Sword-ed Gorn, at killing stuff so you can double.

[Cthulhu]

While Gandalf indeed cant kil anything, he draws you the FP cards that allow you to double, at least that has been my experience.

I'm not fitting in the other stuff (axes, bracers, events), I'm using it because it's really good......Gimli is the most reliable companion in the format at killing stuff so you can double.

I dont see how Gimli kills anything without you fitting in his stuff.

[sgtdraino]

Here's a question: If I decided to go with the Gimli MoM starter, do you think it's smarter to use the fixed Gimli for twilight denial, or start my rare Gimli that I pulled?

[Eukalyptus]

Son of Gloin for sure.

[Legion]

I know this appears to be going against the grain here, but I'm sticking to my guns.  All things being equal, I'd go for Gandalf in serie 1, followed by Gimli then Legolas.  I'm going to apologise in advance for quite a lengthy opinion coming right up

Before I begin Serie 1 (and to be honest 2,3 and 4) is all about Boromir, SoD.  Don't use Lord of Gondor, even if he is rare.  Allowing Frodo to fight Uruks without fear is still better than not dying to Uruks himself, even with armour, and he is soooo much more useful against Moria.

I say Gandalf in Serie 1 and, in part, this is thanks to the popularity of Aragorn-in an AvA matchup, nine times out of ten the FP can single its way to site 9-you lose by being outrun or by trying to run too hard and get smashed.  Therefore, most players of Aragorn like to go first to get the edge in that race.  This is absolutely ideal for Gandalf, whose fellowship is shockingly awful, but whose shadow is, in my opinion, absolutely terrifying.  You should survive singles (and will rarely hit their site 7 which is the only real thing that hurts), and your shadow can do the rest: you can almost always get 6 or 7 orcs out per turn, especially since the FP stuff is so bad you don't mind discarding it with TAC, meaning your opponent is forced to choose between being Enquea'd or swarmed.  Hobbit Intuition site 4 is not a worry-use that site to overwhelm Boromir, then move onto those Hobbits.  Without good pulls I would reckon an Aragorn fellowship will never survive site 9.  I tend to leave out the Marksmen (what-Legion not using Moria Archers?), Patrol Troop and pumps as they don't swarm as well as all the rest-you'll probably have picked up some cheaper minions in the boosters.  If you cycle well enough (you really should be doing so) you can easily have a full house of minions for site 9 (or 8 if you're still ahead) by playing Goblin Sneak (and using Gimli on occasion-it's normally safe sites 1,2 and 3).

My dislike for the Uruks is that they really are dependent on their pumps to break through which really are predictable.  You can see Saruman's Ambition on the table, and only 2 of your uruks can have 2 Bred for Battle (and Uruk Savage is terrible).  Plus if you don't have Urk-Hai Armoury out, chances are another one of your guys is not really Bred for Battle thanks to Legolas.  Strength 9 is not enough to overwhelm, and loses to Aragorn if he pulls a sword (which is admittedly uncommon, but seems to happen often enough).  If your opponent has more pumps than you (or Gondor's Vengeance), they'll have an easy enough double should they kill a minion, compared to against Moria where even 1 minion left means stay put.  The uruks are certainly OK (better than any of the other 4 shadow sides in the league), but not as scary as Moria from Gandalf in Serie 1.  I find in Sealed if you have to choose between a decent FP with a decent Shadow or one poor half (on this case the FP), but with a brilliant other, go for the latter.  Aragorn's FP is solid, and so is the shadow, but it is not what I'd call awe inspiring.

Serie 2 has a fair choice.  The Gandalf FP is incredibly robust.  It just won't die and The Grey Pilgrim is one of my favourite cards.  The shadow adds basically nothing, though (you already have 4 of most of the decent cards in the shadow, and Goblin Spear/Spearman is fun when it works, but is hardly gamebreaking).  Gimli doesn't look as though he adds anything at first, but Tol Brandir is very helpful for the swarm, and I'll leave it at that for now.  He really needed to have Fror, though.  If you pull one, he makes your job of surviving uruks a whole lot easier (with an Axe he forces a pump to beat-another reason I don't particularly like Aragorn).

Now for serie 3.  First off, everyone goes Legolas. And rightly so-everyone can do with Snows and Foul Creation (even stronger now that No Business of Ours appear not to be working-don't play this card, guys!!)  Many people say that now Gandalf is dead thanks to Frying Pan.  I disagree for 2ish reasons.  The first is what I tried last time in serie 3:  Cycle like crazy and use Gimli, DoE to put a or cost minion (Uruk Savage, Goblin Man etc) on the bottom of your deck, and make sure you haven't drawn it by site 9.  This way Foul Creation won't discard it.  Draw it instead at site 9 with a Goblin Scimitar and now play Snows and everyone else.  It's not easy to pull off (especially if they win with an Uruk Rager or Play Uruk Soldier). but if you do it can be so satisfying.  The second is that you might want to go wounding with Under the Watching Eye and Goblin Marksmen (a Moria Archer Troop pull is invaluable here).  Frying Pan won't work if Frodo or Sam is exhausted!  I went for the former strategy serie 3 last time, and the latter serie 4.  Serie 4 was so much more fun, and had the better win percentage.  I said 2ish ways around Frying Pan as you may well also draw Throw Yourself in Next Time.  I like that card, and if you get it, play it!  

By Serie 4 last time, I had a really fun FP as well-I'd ditched Boromir, which was a tough call as I had Saga of Elendil, and I chose not to play the HttWC that I pulled, but went for Gimli, SoG, Gandlaf, the Grey Wizard, Fror and Legolas, Prince of Mirkood.  3 Gandalf signets for TMaYOD!  Oh, and Shoulder to Shoulder and Deep in thought to wrap it all off  I accidentally played that deck in a normal casual game once.  It won, and quite happily-Gimli killing the Witch King was the highlight.

However, there really is no right way to play this sealed.  All routes are viable, in my opinion, which is why this is my favourite of all the sealed leagues (except perhaps Revised Movie).  And obviously, if you pull Aragorn's Bow and Worry, ignore all of the above and go for Aragorn.  It is a bit of a pity Boromir's Starter is so rarely seen (my first real set of cards).  His Cloak is good against the strategy above, but otherwise I do prefer Foul Creation form Legolas.  

[zen89]

While Gandalf indeed cant kil anything, he draws you the FP cards that allow you to double, at least that has been my experience.

I'm not fitting in the other stuff (axes, bracers, events), I'm using it because it's really good......Gimli is the most reliable companion in the format at killing stuff so you can double.

I dont see how Gimli kills anything without you fitting in his stuff.

Maybe I should've italicized 'fitting in.'

I'm using the cards, but 'fitting in' implies that I'm having to make space for them in lieu of other, more deserving cards, in order for Gimli to be effective. That isn't really the case--I'm using them because a tough, skirmishing Gimli is the only companion in FotR Sealed other than a Ranger's Sword Aragorn who can reliably drop minions and allow you to double.

He can, with all his equipment or with pumps, kill an Uruk. He also chokes for multiple sites.

Also, thanks to Legion for an excellent post. Probably one of the best defenses I've seen of the Gandalf starter for Serie 1. I agree that Moria is a tough fellow in Serie 1 and gets a decent amount of kills. I just think it gets much harder in the subsequent series. But given that I already have four losses in the current league, maybe I'm totally wrong.

[dmaz]

I know this appears to be going against the grain here, but I'm sticking to my guns.  All things being equal, I'd go for Gandalf in serie 1, followed by Gimli then Legolas.  I'm going to apologise in advance for quite a lengthy opinion coming right up

Before I begin Serie 1 (and to be honest 2,3 and 4) is all about Boromir, SoD.  Don't use Lord of Gondor, even if he is rare.  Allowing Frodo to fight Uruks without fear is still better than not dying to Uruks himself, even with armour, and he is soooo much more useful against Moria.

........

Well...You might be going "against the grain" from what has been posted here, for the most part. However, out of everyone that has posted, you're the only one who really places in the top for Sealed leagues, except for maybe zen that I can remember, so you have to give some weight to your opinion.

I agree Aragorn FP is solid. If either of your Gondor guys get the sword, the large pool of pumps that they have helps them double quite a bit. Son of Denethor is really great to drop at 7 or 8 and move to 9...if they play him at site 3 to draw the card though, any Orc deck can usually overwhelm him by 7, if they play very smart (coat of mail can be bothersome, I'm always happy to see my opponent unwittingly throw down Armors, which happens more often).

The Uruks really are overrated. I went 8-4, which wasn't stellar, but respectable considering I drew nothing game-altering, but none of my losses came from Frodo overwhelm.  

After playing 12 games and watching twice as many, it is very clear the Uruk shadow is much more predictable than Moria. Why? The pool of Uruks, aside from rare pulls only includes 1 guy who is vitality 3. An exhausted Uruk means no unrevealed pumps unless they pulled yet another rare. I've been able to make several doubles to site 9 because I knew it was a safe gamble to assign to Frodo, knowing they MUST have a STMTN if they want to overwhelm him.

Whereas Moria you have 2 non-rare pumps and 1 rare pump which have no vitality requirements.  You have a more diverse pool non-rare minions, even possible game-changers like Warrior and Backstabber. "Oh so you did put that Coat of Mail on Boromir? I'm damage +2 here. Hope you have 3 Swordarm of the White Tower in hand". If you are a smart player, I'd really say you can do as much damage with the Moria deck in Serie 1 as the Uruks. Serie 2 gets challenging due to HLBSOF guaranteed (lost 2 games due to people pulling multiples of that card).

Also, as Cthulhu has always well-put, Moria gets Shores of Nen Hithoel, "the best Moria card" I'm convinced it really is, if you move wisely and play your shadow in such a way that gives you more control and a free single move to conserve companions.

I guess the only thing I'd slightly disagree with in your argument is the not using of Lord of Gondor if you pull him. I pulled one, and he really helped a lot when I played against Uruks. I DEFINITELY put both in the deck and played one or the other based on necessity. Showing I have a Moria deck, any smart player would often let you take the lead, knowing you would need a rare pull to keep from exerting at site 7. If I pulled him at site 4 or later, I would hold him till six and then play him. With most splash companions having 3 vitality, other than the hobbits. All of them exerting at 7 means you either need a pump or they die if assigned. Uruk shadows love this, and I noticed I was able to move relatively slowly and they would stay behind me. Partly due to avoiding a bomb that would kill Boromir, and also the clear advantage of the site 7. So, imho, if you pull Lord of Gondor, definitely put him in the deck

Though my other rares including things like Pale Blade with no King to use and borderline horrible cards like An Able Guide and Council of Elrond (why are these rares? haha), I was still pleased with my Lord of Gondor and foil Guard Commander (at least something that can take advantage of a flooded pool).

I also pulled Mithril Shaft and am not using it (a Delving would have been much nicer), does anyone here think it would be useful in serie 2? Not sure if its worth it, as I should be using TAC for discard...

[sgtdraino]

Wow, dmaz, it seems like you got a lot of the same rares I did.

[dmaz]

Wow, dmaz, it seems like you got a lot of the same rares I did.

I thought the same exact thing when I read yours. I have mentioned this in the past as well, when opening boosters after tournaments/before sealed leagues. I think the coding has overlap, and treats the opening of a pack based on timing with no independence based on users.

I can't say for certain, but this has happened enough times that it's NOT just coincidence.

Perhaps if people are complaining about their pulls at the time the packs are released we should wait an hour or two?

[sgtdraino]

Well, that was effing ridiculous. I just opened my three MoM packs, and got THE SAME RARE IN EVERY PACK. It's a pretty decent rare, but if I go for the Gimli deck, it's completely useless.

[zen89]

Well, that was effing ridiculous. I just opened my three MoM packs, and got THE SAME RARE IN EVERY PACK. It's a pretty decent rare, but if I go for the Gimli deck, it's completely useless.

Haha I got the Balrog's Sword and the one that requires you to spot the Balrog and Whip of Many Thongs. Dear lord, could it have been more useless?

[dmaz]

Haha I got the Balrog's Sword and the one that requires you to spot the Balrog and Whip of Many Thongs. Dear lord, could it have been more useless?

Ah, Final Cry...I pulled that in the last 2 For sealed, and was conceded that I would make it a trifecta... But thankfully, looks like you picked up mine for me

[BigRedMF]

Balrog's sword is good in this sealed! I got a Pale blade 1st series and an Orc-bane 2nd series that are gathering dust...

[zen89]

Balrog's sword is good in this sealed! I got a Pale blade 1st series and an Orc-bane 2nd series that are gathering dust...

I was actually thinking about using it, as I usually run the Balrog (I know many don't). But given that it's so often a dead card, that Hobbit Stealth exists, and that people often just pitch Thrarin, I decided to skip it.

Maybe I'll change my mind!

[Eukalyptus]

Nah, that's good thinking.

[sgtdraino]

Opponents are highly unlikely to have hobbit stealth on site 6 in this league.

[zen89]

Opponents are highly unlikely to have hobbit stealth on site 6 in this league.

But given that I would be playing the Balrog at site five, that wouldn't seem to matter.

[Eukalyptus]

Besides, Hobbit Stealth works for site 5, not 6. Intuition would be better from 6 on.

[sgtdraino]

Sorry, meant site 5. Your opponent is unlikely to have Hobbit Stealth at site 5. They're also unlikely to have Armor, so I'd think The Balrog is generally a pretty good card in sealed.

[Cthulhu]

Sorry, meant site 5. Your opponent is unlikely to have Hobbit Stealth at site 5. They're also unlikely to have Armor, so I'd think The Balrog is generally a pretty good card in sealed.

No, its not, and no, he's not. Both cards are common, so there are not that hard to pull, and one of them is included in the most popular starter too, not to mention Hobbit Intuition which is included in every starter and you should have 4 by now usually does the job too, if Frodo or Merry have a Hobbit Sword (Boromir's activation too). So does an event on Gorn (6 of them in starter) and bunch ot other things, so if my opponent's only play on that crucial site 5 is just Durin's Bane, I pretty much pump the fist every time and double uneventfully.

Let me quote myself:

 
Durin's Bane on the other hand is just awful, it clogs your hand - I'd much rather play 3 uruks on Bridge and unload my hand so i can draw more FP for my turn, and usually they deal more damage and force more stops too. I love when this guy is the only thing they play on site 5, it means easy double for me after a stealth and a random event on Gorn. Armor or Filibert make him look even more silly. The only good thing going for him is the Snows combo some people like (play some isenguard minion, play Snows, play Durin's Bane) but even that is not so scarry if you have a Thrarin or some disposable comps like Pipin, or bunch of other things like Rangers Sword, so I never went for it. Note that the rare Balrog is a good addition to your Moria deck, if you manage to pull him from packs.

[sgtdraino]

Great point, I can't argue with that.

[zen89]

Sorry, meant site 5. Your opponent is unlikely to have Hobbit Stealth at site 5. They're also unlikely to have Armor, so I'd think The Balrog is generally a pretty good card in sealed.

No, its not, and no, he's not. Both cards are common, so there are not that hard to pull, and one of them is included in the most popular starter too, not to mention Hobbit Intuition which is included in every starter and you should have 4 by now usually does the job too, if Frodo or Merry have a Hobbit Sword (Boromir's activation too). So does an event on Gorn (6 of them in starter) and bunch ot other things, so if my opponent's only play on that crucial site 5 is just Durin's Bane, I pretty much pump the fist every time and double uneventfully.

Let me quote myself:

 
Durin's Bane on the other hand is just awful, it clogs your hand - I'd much rather play 3 uruks on Bridge and unload my hand so i can draw more FP for my turn, and usually they deal more damage and force more stops too. I love when this guy is the only thing they play on site 5, it means easy double for me after a stealth and a random event on Gorn. Armor or Filibert make him look even more silly. The only good thing going for him is the Snows combo some people like (play some isenguard minion, play Snows, play Durin's Bane) but even that is not so scarry if you have a Thrarin or some disposable comps like Pipin, or bunch of other things like Rangers Sword, so I never went for it. Note that the rare Balrog is a good addition to your Moria deck, if you manage to pull him from packs.

I pretty much agree with 98% of this. Armor, Bounders, and Hobbit Stealth are all so ubiquitous that the Balrog is pretty hit-or-miss for me. Dangerous to play because it will often allow a 4-6 double, and can be a hand-clogger.

I don't know about 'awful', because he's still somewhat useful on the 3-5 double, and you'll sometimes dump two companions with him, but he's definitely an iffy card.

[Cthulhu]

The only time Ive seen him taking two comps against any decent deck is with the Snows combo mentioned, but even with my 2x Snows this time I didnt put him in, because aside from the mentioned cards like Thrarin, various meatshield comps and Ranger's Sword that prevent it being too effective play, I cant reliably hope that even if I have Snows  they will give me 11-12 twilight on Bridge in the format with the most choke.

[dmaz]

If you're playing a fairly large deck, like Moria or a combination of Moria and Sauron, which makes use of hand cyclers anyway, then the Balrog is not a bad choice.

He's not great by any means, due to the numerous ways of dealing with him (all those mentioned and more), but he might be worth having in there if your opponent just didn't get the right cards out to deal with him. Being able to take down a non-meatshield companion with just a click on the site is nice, if things work that way, so I'd always include him.

More times than I use him I dump him with TAC tho...and if you draw him before site 4 you really ought to dump him as well....If you are still playing Uruks though and your deck is lean, to where each card counts it really wouldn't be practical to play him.

[Eukalyptus]

Just had a game where Balrog hit me on 4. That indeed DID stop me

[bibfortuna25]

If you're lucky, the Balrog might kill Thrarin or a weak Hobbit. But that's it. He simply can't cause much damage in this format.

Now, if you pulled Flame of Udun, on the other hand....

[Legion]

I've changed my vote.  I previously said "All thing being equal" and then assumed you had good pulls for Legolas.  Without Shoulder to Shoulder, I'd actually go Boromir taking the shadow down a wounding path.  Tower Lieutenant is so good at stopping doubles, and if he doesn't, you can probably double after discarding your opponent's Snows or other frightening card.  Plus you get Boromir's Cloak which is a much better way of getting rid of Snows.  It does stop you from going down "Swarm alley", though.  You have to do wounding, but that's OK.

[zen89]

I've changed my vote.  I previously said "All thing being equal" and then assumed you had good pulls for Legolas.  Without Shoulder to Shoulder, I'd actually go Boromir taking the shadow down a wounding path.  Tower Lieutenant is so good at stopping doubles, and if he doesn't, you can probably double after discarding your opponent's Snows or other frightening card.  Plus you get Boromir's Cloak which is a much better way of getting rid of Snows.  It does stop you from going down "Swarm alley", though.  You have to do wounding, but that's OK.

I love Boromir's Cloak, but it's really hard to say no to Foul Creation, Frying Pan, and Saruman's Shows (which is ridiculous). Plus double-archer Legolas, who is sneakily an awesome companion, especially against Uruks.

[Legion]

Foul Creation leaves you stuck with an annoying choice: run those elf allies, or get Legolas in one hit range of those Uruks that get through.  I don't find it's such a helpful card, especially if it costs 1.  Drawing cards is nice, though.  Frying Pan is good against orcs, but if you go down that route (remember my vote had Gandalf then Gimli), the only hobbit you have is Frodo (unless you drew one) if you go Legolas.  This means that you either need to pack Hobbit Sword and hope to draw it first vs Uruks, of be stuck with a strength 5 Frodo.  But Strength 5 is in itself a massive issue.  6 is a golden number for any Frodo as it means he cannot be overwhelmed by Enquea without pumps.  Against Sauron Grind, I still prefer Hobbit Sword as it lets you take on 2 Orc Ambushers (and there will be more minions than companions at Tol Brandir), and now you can exert Frodo with UtWE instead of your precious Boromir.  Also, any decent swarm will have Saruman's Snows, so again Hobbit Sword is better.

The Legolas is OK, but I prefer the Dwarves,  Farin can actually use the pumps, so a Fellowship of Gimli, Gandalf, Boromir (the advantage of Legolas Starter is that you do get more than one SoD) and Farin (Fror if you pull one) is very solid.

[zen89]

Foul Creation is one of the best ways to foil snows-based swarm decks--it can also pick off Saruman, and seeing the opponent's hand can be incredibly important against Uruks in particular, as it allows you to see whether they have Bred for Battle. Also, if you drew any of the Elf archer allies from FotR, or if you play Haldir, it doesn't necessarily require a Legolas exertion.

I suppose if my only hobbit was Frodo I'd like Frying Pan less, but if you have Sam SoH it's very valuable. It can often allow easy doubles in the middle of the game against Moria.

I think Legolas is hugely underrated--he can single-handedly trivialize the 1-3 double, and also is a major contributor at 7-8. Even if you don't kill things, weakening them allows you to double more easily, and it lessens the need to plan for Bred for Battle. Combined with Hand Axes and Here Lies Balin, Son of Fundin, you can also occasionally play a wounding strategy.

[Eukalyptus]

This Sealed, my card pool was enriched by some very good Isengard cards like Orthanc Assassin, a 3rd Ambition, Uruk Fighter, 2 Uruk Warrior and a 3rd Uruk-hai Raiding Party. But those were void once Goblin Swarms looked at me. I got a 4th Scout, Host of Thousands and I believe 4th Goblin Scavengers out of the packs. Companion wise I got it good with Boromir SoD, 3rd Gimli, 3rd Legolas, Pippin and a Haldir. Ottar and Risk a Little Light helped sway the favor to Gandalf.

So I re-read this thread and followed Merrick's advice.

This is the deck for Series 1:

Ring-bearer: Frodo, Son of Drogo
Ring: The One Ring, The Ruling Ring

Adventure deck:
Westfarthing
Ettenmoors
Council Courtyard
Mithril Mine
The Bridge of Khazad-dum
Dimrill Dale
Anduin Confluence
Shores of Nen Hithoel
Emyn Muil

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
1x Dwarf Guard
2x Gimli, Dwarf of Erebor
1x Haldir, Elf of the Golden Wood
3x Legolas, Prince of Mirkwood
2x Gandalf, The Grey Wizard
2x Boromir, Son of Denethor
1x Pippin, Friend to Frodo
1x Silinde, Elf of Mirkwood
1x Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor
1x Ottar, Man of Laketown
3x Bounder
1x Armor
2x Hobbit Sword
1x Foul Creation
4x Mysterious Wizard
1x Risk a Little Light
1x Sleep Caradhras
2x Hobbit Intuition
1x Hobbit Stealth
2x Noble Intentions

Shadow Draw Deck:
4x Goblin Marksman
4x Goblin Runner
4x Goblin Scavengers
3x Goblin Sneak
4x Moria Scout
2x Orc Inquisitor
1x Úlairë Enquëa, Lieutenant of Morgul
4x Goblin Scimitar
4x Host of Thousands
1x Goblin Swarms
2x They Are Coming

I cannot remember if I had any difficult games, but I do remember that Swarms was out by 4 at the latest in all but one or two games. And without Pan and a scarce Boromir, that made things easy.

10-0

(Gimli starter) The packs for series two graced me with two A Promise, but I got no Sam to use them I got a Fror, so I went Dwarves:

Ring-bearer: Frodo, Reluctant Adventurer
Ring: The One Ring, The Ruling Ring

Adventure deck:
Westfarthing
Ettenmoors
Council Courtyard
Mithril Mine
The Bridge of Khazad-dum
Dimrill Dale
Anduin Confluence
Shores of Nen Hithoel
Tol Brandir

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
2x Farin, Dwarven Emissary
1x Fror, Gimli's Kinsman
1x Gimli, Dwarf of the Mountain-race
1x Legolas, Prince of Mirkwood
2x Gandalf, The Grey Wizard
2x Boromir, Son of Denethor
1x Thrarin, Dwarven Smith
1x Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor
2x Bounder
2x Dwarven Axe
3x Hand Axe
2x Hobbit Sword
3x Axe Strike
4x Flurry of Blows
2x Here Lies Balin, Son of Fundin
1x Sleep Caradhras
3x Hobbit Intuition
1x Hobbit Stealth

Shadow Draw Deck:
4x Goblin Marksman
4x Goblin Runner
4x Goblin Scavengers
3x Goblin Sneak
4x Moria Scout
3x Orc Ambusher
1x Úlairë Enquëa, Lieutenant of Morgul
4x Goblin Scimitar
4x Host of Thousands
1x Goblin Swarms
2x They Are Coming

This series proved very hard as my draws were often imbalanced. Very often. Going so many skirmish events was a mistake, but I lost only 2. 1 to a very, VERY good card pool. Again, Swarms early on.

8-2

In series 3 (Legolas starter) I thought it would all fall apart due to Frying Pan. But I think I encountered one Pan total. And played on some schmug that was not Frodo or Sam. I went for less skirmish events that might clog my hand. Dinendal and Legolas were the only things I used for the freeps from the packs and starters. And of course Frying Pan.

Ring-bearer: Frodo, Reluctant Adventurer
Ring: The One Ring, The Ruling Ring

Adventure deck:
Westfarthing
Ettenmoors
Council Courtyard
Mithril Mine
The Bridge of Khazad-dum
Dimrill Dale
Anduin Confluence
Shores of Nen Hithoel
Tol Brandir

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
2x Farin, Dwarven Emissary
1x Fror, Gimli's Kinsman
1x Gimli, Dwarf of the Mountain-race
1x Haldir, Elf of the Golden Wood
2x Legolas, Son of Thranduil
1x Gandalf, The Grey Wizard
4x Boromir, Son of Denethor
1x Pippin, Mr. Took
1x Thrarin, Dwarven Smith
1x Dinendal, Silent Scout
1x Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor
2x Bounder
2x Dwarven Axe
2x Hand Axe
1x Frying Pan
1x Hobbit Sword
3x Axe Strike
1x Here Lies Balin, Son of Fundin
2x Foul Creation
1x Sleep Caradhras
3x Hobbit Intuition

Shadow Draw Deck:
4x Goblin Marksman
4x Goblin Runner
4x Goblin Scavengers
3x Goblin Sneak
4x Moria Scout
3x Orc Ambusher
1x Úlairë Enquëa, Lieutenant of Morgul
4x Goblin Scimitar
4x Host of Thousands
1x Goblin Swarms
2x They Are Coming

It went surprisingly good, with almost all kills. Swarms early on again. Which is always a big plus.

10-0

Series 4 would change all that. I got Guard Commander who was on my wish list and a Calaglin who is 1000x better than Dinendal. So I switched one Goblin Marksman for Commander and the two elf allies for each other. After the 3rd or 4th game I cut a Host in favor of a second Shotgun Enquea.

Ring-bearer: Frodo, Reluctant Adventurer
Ring: The One Ring, The Ruling Ring

Adventure deck:
Westfarthing
Ettenmoors
Council Courtyard
Mithril Mine
The Bridge of Khazad-dum
Dimrill Dale
Anduin Confluence
Shores of Nen Hithoel
Tol Brandir

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
2x Farin, Dwarven Emissary
1x Fror, Gimli's Kinsman
1x Gimli, Dwarf of the Mountain-race
1x Haldir, Elf of the Golden Wood
2x Legolas, Son of Thranduil
1x Gandalf, The Grey Wizard
4x Boromir, Son of Denethor
1x Pippin, Mr. Took
1x Thrarin, Dwarven Smith
1x Dinendal, Silent Scout
1x Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor
2x Bounder
2x Dwarven Axe
2x Hand Axe
1x Frying Pan
1x Hobbit Sword
3x Axe Strike
1x Here Lies Balin, Son of Fundin
2x Foul Creation
1x Sleep Caradhras
3x Hobbit Intuition

Shadow Draw Deck:
4x Goblin Marksman
4x Goblin Runner
4x Goblin Scavengers
3x Goblin Sneak
4x Moria Scout
3x Orc Ambusher
1x Úlairë Enquëa, Lieutenant of Morgul
4x Goblin Scimitar
4x Host of Thousands
1x Goblin Swarms
2x They Are Coming

In this series I faced several PATHS (3 total), 1 or 2 Aragorn's Bow and a complete screwed up draw that allowed for some doubles. For my opponent. Swarms was mostly late game and did nothing, sometimes even TAC would be site 7 or later. It just wasn't my series.

6-4

In ALL cases where I was able to, I threw every elf to the bin when facing Moria. That's why I didn't play my Long-knives. Those Scouts are just too nasty.

Here's the complete list of my card pool for those who are interested. I think I did everything I could:

Ring-bearer: Frodo, Reluctant Adventurer
Ring: The One Ring, The Ruling Ring

Adventure deck:
Green Dragon Inn
Green Hill Country
Hobbiton Party Field
Town Center
Westfarthing
Breeland Forest
Ettenmoors
Council Courtyard
House of Elrond
Dwarrowdelf Chamber
Pass of Caradhras
Hollin
Mithril Mine
The Bridge of Khazad-dum
Dimrill Dale
Lothlorien Woods
Anduin Confluence
Anduin Wilderland
Silverlode Banks
The Great River
Anduin Banks
Pillars of the Kings
Shores of Nen Hithoel
Emyn Muil
Tol Brandir

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
4x Dwarf Guard
2x Farin, Dwarven Emissary
2x Fror, Gimli's Kinsman
4x Gimli, Dwarf of Erebor
2x Gimli, Dwarf of the Mountain-race
3x Haldir, Elf of the Golden Wood
4x Legolas, Prince of Mirkwood
2x Legolas, Son of Thranduil
2x Gandalf, The Grey Wizard
4x Boromir, Son of Denethor
2x Frodo, Reluctant Adventurer
2x Frodo, Son of Drogo
1x Pippin, Friend to Frodo
1x Pippin, Mr. Took
1x Grimir, Dwarven Elder
1x Thrarin, Dwarven Smith
1x Calaglin, Elf of Lorien
1x Dinendal, Silent Scout
2x Erestor, Chief Advisor to Elrond
2x Galdor, Councilor From the West
2x Golradir, Councilor of Imladris
3x Saelbeth, Elven Councilor
1x Silinde, Elf of Mirkwood
1x Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor
1x Erland, Advisor to Brand
1x Ottar, Man of Laketown
3x Bounder
1x Filibert Bolger, Wily Rascal
1x Old Noakes, Purveyor of Wisdoms
2x Dwarven Armor
2x Dwarven Axe
1x Gimli's Pipe
4x Hand Axe
1x Asfaloth
1x Gwemegil
1x Long-knives of Legolas
1x Phial of Galadriel
1x The Mirror of Galadriel
1x Wizard Staff
2x Armor
2x Frying Pan
4x Hobbit Sword
1x Gandalf's Staff
3x Axe Strike
1x Delving
4x Flurry of Blows
2x Here Lies Balin, Son of Fundin
3x Still Draws Breath
1x Storm of Argument
2x Their Halls of Stone
1x Tidings of Erebor
2x Border Defenses
5x Defiance
1x Elf-song
4x Foul Creation
1x Friends of Old
1x Master of Healing
2x Deep in Thought
1x Depart Silently
3x Intimidate
4x Mysterious Wizard
1x Risk a Little Light
1x Sleep Caradhras
1x Strength of Spirit
1x Treachery Deeper Than You Know
1x Wielder of the Flame
1x Dagger Strike
1x Eregion's Trails
1x Flee in Terror
1x Gondor Will See It Done
1x Gondor's Vengeance
1x Pathfinder
1x What Are They?
1x Deft in Their Movements
6x Hobbit Intuition
1x Hobbit Stealth
2x Meant to Be Alone
2x Noble Intentions
1x Seek and Hide
1x Sorry About Everything
1x Stout and Sturdy
2x Dwarven Heart
1x Let Them Come!
2x Lord of Moria
1x Realm of Dwarrowdelf
2x Stairs of Khazad-dum
1x Till Durin Wakes Again
4x Far-seeing Eyes
7x Hosts of the Last Alliance
1x The White Arrows of Lorien
3x Gandalf's Wisdom
1x Unknown Perils
1x Natural Cover
1x No Stranger to the Shadows
2x A Promise
1x Three Monstrous Trolls

Shadow Draw Deck:
4x Isengard Forger
1x Isengard Smith
3x Isengard Worker
2x Orc Overseer
1x Orthanc Assassin
1x Uruk Fighter
1x Uruk Messenger
3x Uruk Rager
4x Uruk Raider
2x Uruk Ravager
4x Uruk Savage
5x Uruk Scout
2x Uruk Shaman
1x Uruk Slayer
1x Uruk Spy
3x Uruk Warrior
5x Uruk-hai Raiding Party
1x Foul Tentacle
1x Goblin Flankers
5x Goblin Marksman
3x Goblin Patrol Troop
3x Goblin Pursuer
1x Goblin Reinforcements
4x Goblin Runner
4x Goblin Scavengers
3x Goblin Sneak
2x Goblin Spearman
1x Guard Commander
1x Huge Tentacle
4x Moria Scout
3x The Balrog, Durin's Bane
5x Orc Ambusher
5x Orc Assassin
1x Orc Butcher
3x Orc Chieftain
2x Orc Hunters
4x Orc Inquisitor
5x Orc Scout
1x Orc Soldier
3x Orc Swordsman
1x Orc Veteran
2x Úlairë Enquëa, Lieutenant of Morgul
2x Úlairë Enquëa, Ringwraith in Twilight
1x Úlairë Nelya, Lieutenant of Morgul
1x Úlairë Otsëa, Ringwraith in Twilight
1x Isengard Axe
4x Uruk-hai Sword
4x Goblin Scimitar
1x Goblin Spear
4x Vile Blade
3x Abandoning Reason for Madness
3x Bred for Battle
1x Caradhras Has Not Forgiven Us
1x Evil Afoot
3x One of You Must Do This
1x Saruman's Power
1x Servants to Saruman
1x Dangerous Gamble
3x Drums in the Deep
2x Hide and Seek
4x Host of Thousands
1x Power and Terror
1x Relentless
2x Troubled Mountains
1x Unfamiliar Territory
1x All Thought Bent on It
2x Hand of Sauron
2x Massing in the East
3x Mordor's Strength
1x Southern Spies
1x Terrible as the Dawn
1x The Dark Lord Advances
1x Why Shouldn't I Keep It?
1x Relentless Charge
1x Their Power Is in Terror
2x Demands of the Sackville-Bagginses
1x Saruman's Ambition
1x Saruman's Snows
2x Their Arrows Enrage
2x Trapped and Alone
2x Uruk-hai Armory
1x Dark Places
1x Fill With Fear
1x Goblin Swarms
1x The Long Dark
2x They Are Coming
1x Seeking It Always
2x Spies of Mordor
2x Under the Watching Eye
1x Not Easily Destroyed