Input Needed: The Fellowship of the Pipeweed / Saruman & Friends

[Galdor420]

The Fellowship of the Weed-Smoke:

Starting Fellowship:

Frodo, Courteous Halfling
The One Ring, Answer To All Riddles
Gandalf, Friend of the Shirefolk

Boromir, Son of Denethor x2
Aragorn's Pipe
Blade of Gondor
Flaming Brand
Gimli, Dwarf of the Mountain-race x2
Gimli's Pipe
Gimli's Battle Axe
Ring of Fury
Sting
Frodo's Pipe
Bilbo, Well-spoken Gentlehobbit
The Gaffer's Pipe
Longbottom Leaf x4
Old Toby x4
Gandalf's Cart
Gandalf's Pipe
Glamdring
Gandalf's Staff
Not the First Halfling
Servant of the Secret Fire x4
Sleep, Caradhras
Fireworks x2
Terrible and Evil

Stats:
52% posessions
22% events
13% companions
5% artifacts
2% allies
2% conditions

Saruman & Friends:

Saruman's Staff, Wizard's Device
Saruman, Keeper of Isengard
Saruman, Servant of the Eye x3
The Palantir of Orthanc
A Fell Voice on the Air
Wizard Storm
Saruman's Snows
Traitor's Voice
Tower of Orthanc x2
Greed
Lurtz, Servant of Isengard x2
Orthanc Assassin x3
Ranged Commander x4
Elite Crossbowmen x2
Band of Uruk Bowmen x2
Uruk Crossbow Troop x2
Cloud of Arrows x3
Weapons of Isengard x2
Come Down
Down to the Last Child
Burning of Westfold

Stats:
52% minions
33% condtions
8% events
5% artifacts

[sgtdraino]

Not bad! I think you might have trouble getting your Gimli and your Boromir before you get the items you want to put on them, though. You might think about putting in more Gandalf's Carts.

Alternatively, I'd say start with a different version of Gandalf, and leave out Gimli and the Dwarf stuff altogether. Either put Gimli's pipe on an ally, or just don't use it. For your other companions just stick with Gondor and Shire, and pack in 4 Dagger Strikes to use in conjunction with your Servant of the Secret Fires, for some major multi-cultural power-ups. Might also think about Dear Friends to supplement your Fireworks for some major freeps Force-retrieval.

[Galdor420]

Thanks for the comments! I also had the conern about gimli + boromir's items coming in before them, but thats why I use the site 1 that I do. It pulls candalf's cart from the draw deck so I can use that if I feel I'm getting cloged too much (havent play tested yet). Either way each of those 2 has 2 copies of themselves and only 3 additinal cards each to play on them so really they are not essential to the deck anyway.

Thing about Gimli's pipe is that it can only play on Gimli, so unless you know of a Gimli ally that I do not... lol, then I guess he has to be a companion. He makes Gandalf stronger anyway though so I dont mind him in the fellowship. The gandalf I chose will be base 9 strength with the other 2 companions out AND he has the frodo signant (important for frodo's pipe) so he's just the idea choice of Gandalf for the deck.

What do you think about the shadow?

[Cw0rk]

What kind of format is that? Your sitepath is weird.

[sgtdraino]

What kind of format is that? Your sitepath is weird.

Oh yeah! It looks like he's got sites from at least three different blocks! That don't work, dude. It looks like you're either going to have to stick with Fellowship Block (if you want the Gandalf's Cart site), and take out your non-Fellowship block cards, or ditch the cart and go with a different format.

[Galdor420]

The site 6 linked wrong but whatever. This is the movie block forum isnt it? That includes sets 1-10 right? All the sites i picked are within that range. I know tourniments back in the day only let u play sites from the latest block but that was just so they could sell more cards. Me and my friends play only movie block and there are no more tourniments so all set 1-10 sites are fine with any1 i play with.

[Galdor420]

We also dont care about x-list cards if u didnt notice since, again, that only applies to tourniments which dont exsist anymore.

[sgtdraino]

Unless I'm mistaken, Movie Block uses King sites.

[Galdor420]

Officially you are probably correct, but then we would never ever play with any of the sites from fellowship or tower block which seems silly to me since they are all part of movie block. I guess we will chalk that up to a house rule but it doesnt really matter anyway since you could use whatever sites you want for the deck. They dont matter that much and I'd rather the discussion focus on the deck itself rather than the sites which dont really matter anyway.

Anyway I got to play test the deck twice on the weekend and you were right about getting clogged with the dwarven and gondor cards before I got their respective companions. I'll have to rework the deck a bit in order to make sure that doesnt happen in the future. As for the shadow side I was pleasently surprised at the amazing effectiveness of Saruman, Servant of the Eye with Saruman's Staff, Wizard's Device! That combo single handedly killed a fresh aragorn and gimli ringbearer by delivering a whaping 7 wounds (9 if u count the 2 threats he had to distribute)! Amazing for 6 cost!

[Zurcamos]

If rules are only for tournaments, you might as well just have Boromir and Gimli in your starting fellowship with Gandalf, and Arwen, Maiden of Rivendell as your ringbearer.  For your shadow, use nothing but The Balrog, Durin's Bane (play as many copies as you want each turn), except for a single copy of the MTG card "Akroma, Angel of Wrath."   Keep Shire Lookout Point, but use The Bridge of Khazad-dum for sites 2-9.  Better yet, if sites "don't matter that much," use a Batman action figure instead.  Be aware, however, that the rulebook does have one rule that absolutely no house rule can ignore: if anyone uses a Christian Bale Batman voice in conjunction with their action figure, they instantly lose the game - and Zurcamos gets to keep their action figure (no, it's not the official rulebook, but who cares about that?).

[Galdor420]

If rules are only for tournaments

Thats a far cry from "We also dont care about x-list cards if u didnt notice since, again, that only applies to tourniments which dont exsist anymore." Obviously I still play by the rules, more so than you do actually, if I don't use the x-list. What I said is true:

"The following cards may not be played in Standard format tournaments for The Lord of the Rings™ TCG:" <-- in regard t the x-list

http://www.decipher-games.com/lotr/regeln/CRD-may04.pdf

2007 World Championship was the last offical tournament

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lord_of_the_Rings_Trading_Card_Game

Obviously your just a troll trying to cling to your precious x-list long after offical tournaments have ended, and if you and your group of friends want to pretend your still playing in tournaments that is your business. I am actually playing closer to the rules than you are if you are inforcing an x-list on your games because x-list clearly only applies to tournaments in standard format. When I say the "sites dont matter" thats exactly what I mean. Put this deck on a fully king-block site path and it will work pretty much the same. I'm not depending on some "prancing pony" to make my deck work...

[Zurcamos]

If rules are only for tournaments

Thats a far cry from "We also dont care about x-list cards if u didnt notice since, again, that only applies to tourniments which dont exsist anymore."
...
I am actually playing closer to the rules than you are if you are inforcing an x-list on your games because x-list clearly only applies to tournaments in standard format.

So, you have a problem with me saying you think rules are only for tournaments, then respond by saying rules are only for tournaments.  The X-list and King sites are rules in Movie Block, and you posted under Movie Block.  I follow all the rules; you don't, so your argument makes no sense.  Throwing sites from other blocks would make a MASSIVE difference.  If you disagree, you don't understand the game.  Period.

I'm not depending on some "prancing pony" to make my deck work...

thats why I use the site 1 that I do. It pulls candalf's cart from the draw deck so I can use that if I feel I'm getting cloged too much

No, you use a different site from the wrong set to make your deck work.  

I was just teasing you earlier.  I made no personal attacks.  You can do whatever you want with your cards (or Batman action figures), but don't smear your attitude on this site when you are the only person here who believes what you do.  Cw0rk and sgtdraino were correct in their comments.

[Galdor420]

I have a problem with you implying that I'm saying rules are only for tournaments simply because you don't want to see the facts. I linked to wikipedia and offical decipher documents to illustrate you are wrong. You are citing a sticky forum post on a third party site that any dumbass with an internet connection could have wrote. If you somehow got that I don't follow rules because I don't run offical tourniments you need to go back to elementry school and learn to read before you make more posts insulting people based on your ignorance.

If you think that deck requires starting with gandalf's cart to make it work it is you who does not understand the game. Starting a king site one makes little difference in its effectiveness. You could take Gandalf's cart out of that deck completely and it wouldn't really make a big difference. The only thing you were right about in your post is that Cw0rk and sgtdraino were correct in their comments. You, on the other hand, were not. Is it not a personal attack to imply I'm some kind of idiot who doesn't know the rules with your sarcastic attitude? You are the one bringing attitude to my thread. Yea I use non-standard site paths. So what? Forget I posted a site path. I came here for critisim on the deck itself but all I got was a pointless disscussion about sites.

"The X-list and King sites are rules in Movie Block" <-- king sites yes, but show me an offical decipher document that states x-list is a rule in movie block outside of tourniments or kindly STFU.

[Ringbearer]

While I understand your point, keep in mind that most people here play with tournament rules, and as such might not be giving a good answer.

[Zurcamos]

Taken from LOTRO:

Movie Block
Movie Block format uses cards from sets 1-10 (all of the 'movie' blocks plus Reflections) and a King-block legal. You may not include cards from the Standard Exclusion List prior to the release of Shadows.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080907115104/http://lotronline.decipher.com/help/playformats.shtml

Simple concept, Galdor420: just because it was also official for tournaments does not mean it isn't official elsewhere too.  Once again, the X-list and King sites are rules in Movie Block, and you posted under Movie Block.  This means that if you play(ed) Movie Block anywhere except with your group of friends, you'd be playing it with King sites and X-list or you wouldn't be playing.  This means at events, online on the OFFICIAL DECIPHER LOTRO, here on this site, any of the online programs people here use, everywhere.  You can call me wrong all you want, you can call names and throw temper tantrums like a child because you "don't want to see the facts," but you'll continue to be wrong.  I have played this game in paper form since shortly after its release with people who knew how to play the game.  While I have rule questions and make mistakes too, this is not one of those situations.

The only thing you were right about in your post is that Cw0rk and sgtdraino were correct in their comments. You, on the other hand, were not.

And they agree with me.  So, if they are right, what does that make me?  What does that make you?

If you think that deck requires starting with gandalf's cart to make it work it is you who does not understand the game...

You have two copies of two companions in your deck.  You don't think sites matter.  Yes, *I* don't understand the game.   

I linked to wikipedia and offical decipher documents to illustrate you are wrong. You are citing a sticky forum post on a third party site that any dumbass with an internet connection could have wrote.

Anybody can change wikipedia, lol.  You just can't help yourself, can you?  Also, the post, which I don't think I actually cited before, was written by the owner of the site.  Go ahead and call him names and see what it gets you.

"The X-list and King sites are rules in Movie Block" <-- king sites yes, but show me an offical decipher document that states x-list is a rule in movie block outside of tourniments or kindly STFU.

Done.  See beginning of post.  Don't like what members of this site have to say?  Kindly GTFO.

[Galdor420]

Clearly I've been misinformed

Flaming Brand = The Saga of Elendil
Sting = Hobbit Sword

Saruman, Keeper of Isengard = Saruman, Servant of the Eye
The Palantir of Orthanc = Saruman's Staff, Wizard's Device

There, happy? Now I will gladly GTFO and stay there. Clearly this board is the wrong place to get constructive critism. This may be the last house but its deffinately not homely...

[Zurcamos]

Clearly I've been misinformed

Flaming Brand = The Saga of Elendil
Sting = Hobbit Sword

Saruman, Keeper of Isengard = Saruman, Servant of the Eye
The Palantir of Orthanc = Saruman's Staff, Wizard's Device

There, happy? Now I will gladly GTFO and stay there. Clearly this board is the wrong place to get constructive critism. This may be the last house but its deffinately not homely...

I can't even figure out what you're trying to say here.  This place is pleasant for pleasant people.  Ask sgtdraino; he/she showed up around the same time, I think.  I don't hold grudges; I'll give you all the constructive criticism you want when you stop being defensive and arguing when you are clearly wrong.  Making a mistake isn't a problem.  Temper tantrums are.

[Galdor420]

I'd like to point out, not 5 posts down from mine neopium posted a thread called "Pipeweed, need advice" and at the very start of his OP there is a site list from all 10 sets just like mine and theres not 1 mention of it in his thread. Yet I posted the same type of thing and all I got was "OMG, L2P" from pretty much every poster with little to no valueble disscussion on the deck. Why you guys decided to waste my time and not his is beyond me.

[Pepi]

Let me try getting this back on track. If you feel you should be running some condition removal, wouldn't it be better to use 2x Saruman's Power in place of Burning of Westfold and Down to the Last Child? Or you could perhaps consider Saruman, Black Traitor (maybe insted of banned Keeper of Isengard), which would also fit with Saruman's Staff, Wizard's Device quite nicely. If you don't want to lose your own shadow conditions, that is. Also, I think 36 cards on each side is too many. Especially considered you're running a lot of single cards (no duplicates).

[Galdor420]

Thanks Pepi! I think Saruman's Power would hurt my shadow more than the enemy since > 30% is conditions on the shadow side. I have used Burning of Westfold and Down to the Last Child to great effect in the past, and they only hit the free peoples so they are my isenguard go-to cards when it comes to condition removal (plus that inadvertantly helps Band of Uruk Bowmen to boot). Unfortuantely they take a long time to set up and usually by the time that combo is working the game is almost over. I love Saruman's Power and I think it would work great to comtribute to the feel and a fully saruman focused shadow but I'll need to wean that deck off it's reliance on conditions before I can use it safely. Any suggestions on how to have less conditions while still keeping the Saruman theme?

I think Saruman, Black Traitor is in every way inferior to Saruman, Servant of the Eye and I already plan to remove the last keeper of isenguard for a 4th of him. Saruman, Servant of the Eye has the potential to cause so many wounds which works well with the archers, and the archers are the only uruks that seem to complement a decent version of Saruman. I agree 36 cards is alot, but that was the lowest I could get the fellowship side and keep all the same themes. If the fellowship side shrank a bit, the shadow easily could too (which would balance out the minion - condition ratio better too).

[Pepi]

I doubt you have used Burning of Westfold and Down to the Last Child very often, due to the fact that you only run one copy each. Also; they are conditions and can therefore be easily discarded, while waiting for the other half of the pair (for instance). And lastly, sites can be liberated. So it's not a very reliable way to remove opponent's conditions, while Saruman's Power, on the other hand, is. It can hurt you, sure, but that's why use it only when you're sure, it'll hurt your opponent more. If you insist, tho, you should reinforce the strategy a bit. Maybe add another Burning of Westfold ... and I dunno ... due to the fact, your minions are relatively weak in skirmish, I would consider Attack on Helm's Deep in place of Burning of Westfold. Or both, maybe.

I disagree ... Black Traitor is in some cases inferior to Servant of the Eye, yes, but your case is, you only run one staff and also a condition A Fell Voice in the Air, which hurts Servant of the Eye more than it hurts Black Traitor. Well ... come to think of it, maybe you should ditch Saruman strategy alltogether, and just focus on the archers (if you want to keep it Movie, that is).

[Galdor420]

I doubt you have used Burning of Westfold and Down to the Last Child very often

<-- I was refering to previous decks. I agree Saruman's power is superior in nearly every way to that combo, it's just a matter of changing the deck to still be effective while also being immune to the side effects of that card. After seeing how deadly servent of the eye is with the staff I'm inclined to include more copies of the staff. Thing about Black traitor is his at best he discards a condition and is a fierce damage +1 10 strength minion. Servent of the eye wearing the staff is "all that and a bag of chips" lol (minus the condition removal but plus a very useful gametext that can add an additional 3 wounds OR help you win skirmishes [even more wounds]). Black traitor's usefulness ends in the shadow phase.

Ditching Saruman is the last thing I want to do with that shadow because that shadow is supposed to be based around him. The trick is making a Saruman focused shadow viable in movie block (which I am gonna stick with). If that means ditching the archery aspect for something more viable (which still containing the Saruman theme) then that is the path I'd rather take.