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Author Topic: Sarah Palin and Conservative America  (Read 6331 times)

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September 05, 2008, 05:01:57 PM
Reply #45

Ulmo

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2008, 05:01:57 PM »
Yep, I'm sick of the lies, but more than that, I'm sick of bloated government and useless bureaucracy.  I'm sick of government intrusion in my life.  The first step is to repeal the 17th amendment and find a different solution, namely the Fair tax.
"We invaded Iraq because it was God's plan" - I've not heard that one but it is obviously a stupid thing to say.
If Obama's 17-yo daughter was pregnant, there is a chance that she would have an abortion, being brought up in that type of mindset.  And the MSM (main stream media) would love him more because he would stand by her, as he should do.  Can you deny that Obama has had waaaay more media attention than McCain?  Look at McCain's record of going to Iraq to visit the troops, it's at least 3 times, I think more but am not sure, and all the coverage he got was a 10 second sound-bite from each of the big 3 networks.  Obama goes over there once and he takes along all 3 network anchors and gets 4 days of coverage.
I've never heard anyone (on either side) actually define what the middle class is so how do we know who does and doesn't get tax cuts?
I have hope.  But it's not the same hope as the left.  I hope the US wins in Iraq and the soldiers come home as soon as the Iraqi's want them out.  I hope that Iraq keeps the democratic system the US has installed - the people certainly do as as we could see by the lines of Iraqi's going to vote puting their lives on the line to do something we take for granted and many of us never do.  Not that the MSM ever showed the lines of Iraqi's voting because that was a victory for the current administration and that can't be allowed.  I hope that my taxes won't go up.  I hope that government will actually reduce in size rather than grow.
Yes, Obama inspires.  But what does he inspire?  He has hope, and all we need is to believe in change, and hope to believe, and change to hope, and ...  He has openly stated that he will sit down without reservations and talk with the governments of the world that are out to hurt us.  Why does he want to appease?  McCain has instilled fear, but let's not let Obama off the hook so easily.  His campaign has frequently targeted McCain in a negative light whilst saying that he will change the world of politics by not going down that road.  I guess is changes aren't quite set in stone.
Dependence on oil is tricky because many things use petroleum products.  All the plastic we use comes from petroleum.  It's not just energy stations and vehicles that use gasoline.  Alternative energy is needed but it will take time to develop.  Take wind energy for instance - it will take years to build enough wind turbines to make a dent on oil consumption (not that we shouldn't do it) but then we have to deal with the environmentalists who'll say the Kansas plains are too pristine and we can't make them look ugly with all that machinery, and then there will be congressional hearings and more government restrictions and bureaucracy.  By drilling now and building a few more refineries, we reduce our dependence on foreign oil in the immediate future, which will reduce gas prices in the now, while at the same time building wind turbines and other alternative sources.  And by using the oil in the US, global demand will automatically go down.
You are right in that we cannot follow a man into a cave, but only because the media insists on following the military around and the government allows it.  WTF??  This is a war, people, and in a war there are casualties.  It's horrible but it's life.  If the military didn't have to worry about what the MSM will show (always in a negative light), they could go and get bin Laden within a few months.  But do we let the military do their job?  No, that is very politically incorrect.  And someone might get hurt.
NCLB is certainly something that needs to go, one of the worst acts of government ever.  Educators here in Alabama are quite well paid (around $48,000 I believe) and keep getting increases of 5-7% every year.  Yet the educators are doing no better in teaching my children.  Alabama was recently listed as 49th in the union as far as education, and the Alabama Education Union keeps shouting that we need to throw more money at the problem, yet everytime we do, the scores stay the same or even slip.  I agree in paying educators well, but results need to follow.  I believe that Police and Firefighters are paid less than educators and I'm sure you'll agree that they are just as valuable to the community as educators.
Isn't being dependent on government handouts the whole idea of socialism?  Helping those who need a hand to get back on their feet is where welfare should be.  Instead we have a system that promotes staying on government handouts.  For instance, my wife and I had a child 18 months ago.  I did not get an increase in pay for this wonderful bundle of joy, nor should I expect to.  But if a family on welfare has another child, they get an increase in welfare handout.  I ask you, is this fair?  How does this help that family except to put into their mind that the government will always help them out?  The welfare system is broken and needs to be fixed.
I couldn't agree more about the government officials making too much money and they need to go, hence the reduction in the size of the civil service.
Many of you will disagree, but that's the beauty of free speech, which this country upholds.
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September 05, 2008, 05:13:49 PM
Reply #46

FingolfinFinwe

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #46 on: September 05, 2008, 05:13:49 PM »
Ulmo, you summed up a lot of my thoughts on the election so far.    :gp:  for letting me off the hook of having to take the time to write out an essay.   :cheers:

September 05, 2008, 05:24:03 PM
Reply #47

Ulmo

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2008, 05:24:03 PM »
Cheers for the gold.  It did take quite a while, but Hawkeye has written 2 long ones - whew!!
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September 05, 2008, 05:30:19 PM
Reply #48

AgentDrake

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2008, 05:30:19 PM »
Fair warning: half of this is serious. The other half is not. the two are completely and seamlessly interspersed, so good luck figuring out how much of this I really mean. ;) (Well, some of it's obvious... like that whole bit about conquering other planets....) It's mostly just a rant that I've only half thought out, so don't worry about refuting me too much. I'll probably disagree with half of what I said within the next couple hours. I also made no attempt to organize this into a readable form.

I have to admit that I haven't been following this discussion much. Too many long posts, and too much homework for me.
Dependence on oil is tricky because many things use petroleum products.  All the plastic we use comes from petroleum.  It's not just energy stations and vehicles that use gasoline.  Alternative energy is needed but it will take time to develop.  Take wind energy for instance - it will take years to build enough wind turbines to make a dent on oil consumption (not that we shouldn't do it) but then we have to deal with the environmentalists who'll say the Kansas plains are too pristine and we can't make them look ugly with all that machinery, and then there will be congressional hearings and more government restrictions and bureaucracy.  By drilling now and building a few more refineries, we reduce our dependence on foreign oil in the immediate future, which will reduce gas prices in the now, while at the same time building wind turbines and other alternative sources.  And by using the oil in the US, global demand will automatically go down.

Actually, there's a massive amount of stuff we use that requires petroleum.
Think rubber tires. Penicillin. T-Shirts. Anything made out of plastic (AKA, 99% of the United States... :roll: )
Wind power? Huh. Oddly enough, one of the times you need a lot of energy to run your air conditioners, or your heaters, is when there's not much wind at all. And how in blazes are we gonna get a Boeing to run on wind power, eh? I mean, by all means, try to develop alternative energy sources. That's great. We want that. But to be honest, THEY'RE NOT READY YET. *Sigh.* It's pathetic that Paris Hilton made more sense than either McCain or Obama here....
Given that freakin' Paris Hilton was able to present a semi-intellegent energy policy, anyone wondering why I'm a cynical, disillusioned maniac with a Nordic-Medieval worldview??? FRONTIER IMPERIALISM! Let's explore and exploit other planets! Someday, that might actually make sense.
Anyway, while I'm on it, the US actually has some of the most enviro-friendly oil drilling in the world. So would we rather get oil from ourselves, with some, mostly contained, damage to the environment, or do we want to keep importing the stuff from places that don't give a d*** about the environment? It's been demonstrated that the environmental impact of drilling in Alaska and then skipping it all down to the main body of the US is a LOT better for the environment than getting the stuff from Saudi Arabia, or Mexico, or something.

Still. Point being, with the general skimming I hath done of Ulmo's post, I heartily agree. Well, I figure his example of the welfare system giving more $ to a family that just got a kid isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I do agree with his point there. In theory, Welfare should be a crutch that is used to get back on one's feet, and discarded once it's no longer needed. Not what happens, though. It's free money. Why bother getting back onto your own two feet? same problem exists through much of Europe as far as military goes. The US is the 'global police.'
I'm not typing the whole thing, because I'm too lazy, but the gist of the problem is that post WW2, the US mantained a military presence in Europe. Now, many of the NATO nations admit that they want the US to stay there, so that they have a free military. A sort of mercenary army from the US that they don't have to support themselves. This has obvious problems similar to the Welfare problems of apathetic dependency which can also be seen, to a smaller degree, in South Korea: lack of ability to stand on their own, a dependency mindset, reduction of technological advancement, self sufficiency, National Sovereignty, et cetera. Difference is, SK has been asking us to reduce our presence substantially. And I'm pretty dang sure the exact same thign is gonna happen in Iraq. Everyone's talking about "when we can eventually pull out of Iraq." We're not gonna. we've been in Europe since WW2. We've been in Japan since WW2. We've been all over the freaking globe for a very, very long time. We're not leaving Iraq any time soon. Not even if the Democrats get elected, and there's gonna be heck to pay for it someday.
Okay, that's my rant. And that's all it is. A rant.  You can all ignore me now. ;)

Oh, yeah. and words of wisdom from Douglas Adams:

"...it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."

EDIT: Everything below here is new.

Oh, while we're at it... :gp: to both Ulmo and Hawkeye for writing long posts that are actually rational. :up:
Quote from: HawkeyeSPF
...oil is now not only rare...
Actually, we're constantly discovering more and more oil. We just can't drill for most of it because the enviros won;t let us. And other nations are constantly discovering more, too. I can cough up a bunch of news articles about that, if you want.

As for Hawkeye's education comments, I generally agree. Teachers should get paid more, schools less. We don't need more expensive curriculum, more expensive football bleachers, more expensive buildings, more expensive computers, more expensive expenses of any kind; we need more incentive for more good teachers, and to better support the ones we have, so that they can continue to be teachers. But the problem does not exist solely within the education system, the pay of the teachers, et cetera. A substantial amount of the problem is within the culture itself. How does a teacher successfully teach in a culture that is, to steal a line, "comfortable with zero accountability"? The culture of victimhood, the elimination of accepting personal responsibility, et cetera, does not exactly make it easy for a teacher to teach. Learning is somethign the student must do, not have done to them. When people respond to discipline by thinking the teacher/principle is a [insert random insult, probably related to perrentage...] for whatever minor discipline is invoked, when neither the parents nor society (whichever you want, it doesn't really matter for this point in the Status Quo, since neither one does this) try to enforce accountability, then how in heck is our education system supposed to work, anyway?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2008, 05:41:40 PM by AgentDrake »
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September 05, 2008, 06:54:01 PM
Reply #49

MR. Lurtzy

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2008, 06:54:01 PM »
Obama does not have the judgement to lead this country. His involvement with Tony Rezko and William Aires(sp? he was a confessed terrorist) is enough to prove this. He has almost no experience and bad judgement. He is not fit to be the president of the United States.

September 05, 2008, 08:27:14 PM
Reply #50

AgentDrake

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2008, 08:27:14 PM »
Warning: Semi-sarcastic arguments below. Yeah, I know, Hawkeye and Ulmo are a lot more respectful than I am. And a lot more rational. Listen to them, not me. But my first post was a half-random rant, and this one is after way too long of having to listen to the idiot music down the dorm hall. I hope that at least some of my arguments are rational, if not exactly... diplomatic. Ii do have actually rational reasoning in my head-- I promise I'm not a complete lunatic.

Clarification of these Aires/Rev. Wright issues, because I've heard a lot of people on both sides misrepresent a legitimate argument.
Obama obviously shouldn't be blamed for their words/actions, because he didn't do it. Its more a question of "Waittaminute... if these are the people he hangs out with, names as his mentors, knowing what they were (and don't give me any of that nonsense about him not knowing about Rev. Wright's sermons... in The Audacity of Hope he cites from one of the worst of those sermons. And don't give me the whole "it wasn't as bad in context," either. It's true it wasn't that bad in context. I heard the context. It was actually even worse.).... what does that say about him?"
I mean, if someone claimed that Bin Laden or Hitler was their mentor, that would send up red flags all over the place. These guys may not be Bin Laden or Hitler (though Aires is a self-confessed terrorist, and proud of the fact) but the point still holds on a lesser scale.

Further, there's nothing that can be pointed to in order to show that he is at all qualified to be President. What has he done? Supported Hope & Change.

Ya know what? I think those are good too. Maybe you should vote for me? Well, I'm not old enough to run yet, but....

Anyway, back to Obama. Why should anyone at all believe that he can do what he says he wants to do? He's never accomplished anything in office. He's never even TRIED to accomplish anything.

He doesn't know what he's talking about, either.
I mean seriously. He wanted to invade Pakistan! Unilaterally! You gotta be kidding! And you thought Iraq was a bad foreign policy decision. Oh yeah. And he's really ticked off the Canadians. Did anyone else hear about that whole NAFTA incident? Where he said he would completely re-do NAFTA? Or get rid of it? Or something? I didn't hear exactly what his idea was, but the Canadians were sure sore about it. Threw a fit. Heck, two months later, while I was in Canada, I was still seeing news articles. Actual Canadian newspaper headline: "Is Obama a Danger to Canada?" Heh.

And people say he's good for foreign policy, will make other countries like us again. He doesn't even know what he's doing in foreign policy. Invade Pakistan. Of course, as far as I know, he's sorta abandoned this position after his campaign told him what a bad idea it was. Screw Canada and Mexico via NAFTA. I wonder what he'll do to upset the Brits and Frenchies? And the Russians? And the Chinese? He's not even in office, and he's already offended one of our biggest allies, and is not exactly helping our relations with allies in the Middle East. Give me one piece of evidence that says he'll make other nations like us again. I mean, I'm sure there's something, but I'm sorta missing it.


Not to say that I like McCain, either. McCain... Don't get me started.
If it was Palin/McCain, rather than McCain/Palin, then we legitimate conservatives might (and I stress MIGHT) be getting somewhere. (Is my cynicism showing at all? I get like this in political discussions.)


Waittaminute....


*looks at previous posts*

I'm confused. I thought SoP liked Obama? Did you change your mind, am I remembering wrong, or do you support him?
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September 06, 2008, 04:01:32 AM
Reply #51

turin08

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2008, 04:01:32 AM »
Wow this is really interesting. I find myself swayed by every post which is leaving me very confused about whose side I'm on. I do however think that you all need to go away and actually learn what socialism actually is. I'm a bit of an expert on early 20th century European history so you can bet your #$&*@! I know what socialism is and so far none of you have used the term right at all. Oh and Mr Lurtzy it would be really nice to actually hear a longer more detailed post from you. So far everyone else has written long answers which actually offer detailed explanation of their positions whereas you have been diving in and out, writing a sentance then leaving. It's not really a very adult way to approach a debate.

September 06, 2008, 07:33:58 AM
Reply #52

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2008, 07:33:58 AM »
You know what? I had a big long post about this, but I'm done. I'm sick of the lies, I'm sick of the fear-mongering, I'm sick of being told "get used to it, it's the way it is" - what the * ever happened to the American dream, where anything is possible? What the * ever happened to separation of church and state ("We invaded Iraq because it was God's plan")? What ever happened to the family values that Republicans and conservatives claim to cherish (McCain slapping the future-husband of Palin's daughter on the back as if to say "Way to go, knocking up your UNDERAGE GIRLFRIEND!" What if the roles were reversed, and Obama's proverbial 17-year old daughter was pregnant by her boyfriend? He'd be out of the race in a hurry, that's what.) Why is it ok?

Because frankly, it doesn't really matter. A 17 year old daughter is not the candidate, and you can bet your life that her parents didn't condone it. She did it (wow, newsflash) against her parents will? And that simply means that her daughter is not perfect and that the parents cannot shelter their kid 24/7/365. Which you can't expect them too. I wouldn't look at Obama any different if it was his daughter, I have other problems with Obama, you don't need to attack them. And what's McCain supposed to do to the dad? Slap him in front of hundreds of millions of people?

This is just ridiculous. How does McCain's tax proposal propose to help the middle class when it doesn't actually cut their taxes? What about Palin's plan for Alaska - trickle down economics??? I thought that went out in the 80's when it was discovered that IT DOESN'T WORK!

Its quite simple. Let me explains. Business goes up. People get jobs. People get more money and can afford taxes. Or, we could cut taxes and go into massive deficit spending like Bush gave us.

And about the subject of HOPE. Here's how I see it: you can either have hope or despair. When you attack the idea of hope, you reinforce that McCain and his cronies are only selling despair. So I ask you, what is wrong with hope?

I attack the idea of blind hope. Which is what Obama is selling. McCain, you can actually have hope, because he's got a concrete plan to back it with. Obama? Not so much.

What is wrong with seeing that there is a problem, finding a way to fix it, and *ing fixing it?

Nothing. If Obama could do this, that would be great. But he can't.

Obama inspires, while McCain instills fear - there's a big difference in ideology there. Don't take that to mean that Obama doesn't take the threats that face this country seriously, he's just not going to blindly attack without reason or cause,

Without reason or cause. You know what? There was a big reason and cause. Saddam Hussein had materials necessary to make a bomb. Israel shut them down the first time, do you honestly think that after Israel, they gave up and said "ok, let's hold hands and sing Kumbayah with the Israelis?"

then occupy for years and years without need.

You and I finally agree there.

Energy: fund alternative energy development, since oil is now not only rare, but also in greater demand than ever before due to the industrialization of China and India. If you reduce our dependence on oil (altogether, not just foreign), then you reduce global demand. If you reduce global demand, you reduce price, or at least keep it at the same level as demand continues to grow internationally. If other countries adopt alternative energy sources, then global demand is lowered that much more. This problem is the easiest to solve, and it doesn't even involve drilling, not even in ANWR!

I'm all for nuclear power. Wind power is stupid, in order to power the state of Kansas with power, which has a small population, you'd have to stick a windmill every square mile, and that's not even powering some east/west coast sized city. But yeah, I'm all for nuclear power, and think that alternate energy is great. Guess what? So does McCain. But drilling is also something we should do. What, do we leave oil untapped? What good does that do to anyone at all?

Terrorists: Seek them out and eliminate them. We have the greatest military in the world, and yet we cannot follow a man into a cave. Also pretty simple to solve.

Once again, we agree.

Education: focus on student needs, not end results - instead of a war on drugs and illiteracy, we have a war for oil. NCLB has to go, now. Education is the key to life and success. Find me a profession that is as necessary as educators, but as badly paid for their efforts - I dare you. Not gonna happen, and once again, our focus needs to change. Support your educators and you support your children, your country, and your future. Not difficult - seeing a trend?

The way to do this is to cut bureaucracy, so that money can actually get to the students, not a bazillion and a half supervisors. Trust me, I'm from Kansas, I know the problems with education. We've got more than anyone.

Gah, whatever, I'm just REALLY glad some of you can't vote, you scare me.

You know what? I wish you couldn't vote for Obama. Cause that scares me. Just another blind insult to reply to the one you tossed at me.

Oh, one more thing. Some of you have this notion in your heads that if we support welfare and healthcare, that suddenly we'll be socialist and things will be awful and the lazy people who currently work will just quit their jobs and live at home off of welfare.

Um...yeah. Given a choice between hard work and leisure, who's gonna pick hard work? Add to it a philosophy of "tax the heck out of everyone" and why work? Seriously?

You people are nuts. Have you ever been suddenly unemployed and tried to keep up the same standard of living - having to support two or more people on the minimum wage income of just one? It's just not possible. Sure, everybody wants easy money (where do you think "work smarter, not harder" came from?), but people aren't going to abuse the system because it works better. If it works better, then those who shouldn't be on welfare will be prevented from being on welfare - pretty simple, again.

So...we have illegal immigrants crossing the border and getting welfare because they can't get a job (maybe because...they're here illegally?). Okay. I concede. Welfare is EXTREMELY efficient and figuring out who deserves it and who doesn't.

Look at the facts, think about it, and see that this is just another topic where government officials who make entirely too much money have been trying to scare you into letting them keep their jobs or get promoted into higher paying jobs. You fully admit that there are some people out there who genuinely need welfare, or who should have healthcare coverage for their families but can't afford it - why should they continue to not have the same opportunities as those of us who have jobs and healthcare?

Why does the government have to take over what has hitherto been the role of churches and charities? I'll tell you why. Its called the Great Depression. Afterwards, going back to it would have been completely fine, and would have worked great. But we found that we liked being lazy.

Do you regularly spit on bums? Do you think they're evil horrible people because they don't have jobs and they're just abusing the system? Do you really think they ENJOY the way they have to live? Man is not evil on the whole, my friends.

Just a simple answer. Nope. Herein is the fundamental debate. Is man good, or evil? Well...I'm not getting into this again, because we've been here before.

As with everything, there are parts (of the population) that have no ethics and truly are evil. Even those people pale, though, in comparison to indifference. Seeing inequities and doing nothing about them - not even CARING - is the true evil this world faces.

Or...perhaps we care in a different way than you do. Shocking, I know, but you don't have to advocate welfare in order to care.

Ok, so it turned out long anyway, sue me.

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September 06, 2008, 07:46:29 AM
Reply #53

Ulmo

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2008, 07:46:29 AM »
You're right Turin, what we mean by using the word socialism is actually socialist welfare which is the stepping stone to a socialist state.

Socialism is the stage of government between capitalism and communism.  In it's simplest form, it is where the assets are owned by the masses.

What annoys me is that I've been told - to my face - that if I don't vote for Obama, or believe in his change and hope (or is it hype?), then I'm racist.  I wouldn't vote (I can't vote, I'm not a citizen yet thanks to the government red tape) for Obama because he's the #1 liberal senator, because his ideals don't match mine, because I don't believe that where he'd take the country is good for the country, because he has no experience and has shown this consistently throughout his campaign, ...

Now, I do think the right-wing media has ripped him too much on some of the smaller gaffes he has made: his comment on "visiting 57 states and that when he visits the last one he will have been to all 58 states" should be left alone.  He was campaigning and was obviously tired and made a simple mistake about the lower 48 states.  Sure he said it twice, but give him a break.  When he states that he never heard any inflamatory remarks from Rev. Wright's pulpit, then they need to attack him because that's a crock of, well, you know what.

But as for which side you're on, I guess you have to do your own research, find out where the candidates stand on the issues that are important to you.  I get bombarded with leftist dogma from the MSM and I listen to talk-show radio programs to get bombarded by the right-wing dogma.

McCain can really do nothing or say nothing to make me vote for him, but Obama says everything and does everything to make me want to vote for McCain.
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September 06, 2008, 01:15:05 PM
Reply #54

MR. Lurtzy

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2008, 01:15:05 PM »
turin- I talk about these things all the time with coworkers, family, and friends. So I'm a bit weary of the subject. My explanations will continue to be as long as I wish to have them. Get over it.

September 06, 2008, 03:01:06 PM
Reply #55

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2008, 03:01:06 PM »
And again, like I said...we will never see the end of this. btw, nuclear energy has also disadvantages, like the waiste, which is still a problem + there is always a risk of a melt-down. Windenergy can be very effective, we -in the Netherlands- are building complete parcs in the Northsea that provide hunderds of thousands of houses with energy.
 
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September 06, 2008, 05:15:25 PM
Reply #56

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2008, 05:15:25 PM »
*looks at previous posts*

I'm confused. I thought SoP liked Obama? Did you change your mind, am I remembering wrong, or do you support him?

I really need you to come to that liberal forum I was talking about...
and yes for a bout a week I did...I guess his thing about change and uniting America swayed me...but I learned that he was the most liberal senator in America...which kinda changed things ;)
and he has almost no experience...I mean he's basically been in the state legislature...and then he spent a year in congress and ran a presidential campaign...BTO who keeps up to date on this stuff told me he has not authored a single piece of legislation in congress....
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September 07, 2008, 11:38:28 AM
Reply #57

turin08

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #57 on: September 07, 2008, 11:38:28 AM »
Woah Mr Lurtzy no need to be nasty I was just saying that it would nice if you would give us more idea of your views and the reasoning behind them. No need to be rude.

September 07, 2008, 01:41:51 PM
Reply #58

AgentDrake

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Re: Sarah Palin and Conservative America
« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2008, 01:41:51 PM »
Ah, yes. Gotta love debating over forums. No visible facial expressions (except the occasional smiley) or voice inflections, so everyone thinks that everyone else is getting on them.

Lurtzy: turin was just trying to get a better idea of why you thought what you did.

turin: lurtzy was just legitimizing his minimal posts.

Neither of you were actually over any lines. Well, Lurtzy's "get over it" could probably have been skipped, but I can see how he would've been defensive.
Forget it. I'm not arguing with the computer anymore to try to get the sig I want....