Do We Have any Evolutionists

[Centurion]

Just curious I myself am a christian and a young-earth creationist just wondering?

[DáinIronfoot]

Oh dear. This is one of those third rail topics....

[Gil-Estel]

well, I am willing to take a chance. I'm a christian, but I have not determined yet what to think about the earth. I know too little to have an opinion. It is all about how to read the bible. Is it supposed to be a sciencebook, that has all the answers? Or is it a book in which God has above all has showed his will, to have a relation with people.
Why do I question this? Because in history it has shown that the 'church' has banned people who had different opionons about creation. For example scientists claiming that the world was round, or that the sun was going round the earth were banned, for the bible stated otherwise....

Don't get me wrong, I believe in an allmighty God. Whether He has done it in 4,5 bilion years, in 6 days or in a splitsecond, it is all possible. But why I have these wonderings? Because what if there is prove that for example the world is older than we assume? Are we thrown of, or are we able to go on? We are summoned to believe with all our heart and all our mind.

It is not about things that can't be proven. The ressuraction of Jesus is something that is unqueastionable for me. That is the core of the Bible. Him being crusified, and came back to life, that was necesarry to redeem us. And if people say that people can't ressuract from death, I don't care, cause otherway around -proving that they can- isn't possible either.

I've been around a lot of forums, I have seen a lot of debate. This is therefor not an attempt to rise that debate again, but more to centre the question: denying evolution, denying an old earth, are we doing that out of fear (what if that is true, what else is) or is it out of faith?

[DáinIronfoot]

"Creationism", as it's come to be called, and the theory of Evolution are not based in "scientific" fact, no matter what anyone may try and push on you. Anyone who says differently doesn't understand (or chooses to ignore) the definition of science, which is at its very core a repeatable test case. We can't repeat the creation of life, the universe, and everything.

So what does that leave us with? Faith, and faith alone.

As for me, I have faith that "in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth". I cannot justify it by science, and it is folly to even try. But then again, I don't need to. "For the Bible tells me so."

Could God have used some type of evolution as part of His creation? Sure, I suppose so. But I kind of doubt it. I've always been of the belief that things just suddenly came into existence where they didn't exist before. No, I can't back it up, but that's how I have personally always looked at it.

[menace64]

What I'm about to say isn't supposed to come off as a sleight against any one person.

The idea that Christian = Creationist is absolutely ludicrous. Heck, I don't even consider myself a Christian, since I've seen that the overwhelming majority of Christians don't even know who they're following or even why they follow the practices that they do. I'm a follower of Christ - my faith is what defines me - and yet I believe 100% in evolution. There's no question in my mind that we evolved from monkeys, but there's no conflict in my heart as to "what" is right.

God is the greatest scientist. He's the greatest mathematician. He gave us a rich, complicated universe as to allow us an infinite place to explore and learn. He didn't just *poof* everything into existence; rather, he created physics, time, math, and everything else to keep us guessing, to keep us learning.

Ultimately, the Bible does not have all the answers. It says nothing about dinosaurs. Which makes since, because at that point in human evolution dinosaurs were an unknown. For God to have tipped his hat to them would have confused and upset his plan, I think. I don't think the Bible is some infallible book of infinite knowledge and insight - I see the Bible as one way to get closer to God and not the only way. It is a tool, a conduit, to better-understand our purpose on the Earth. Some people depend on the Bible in their Walk with God. Some people do not.

I am one of the latter. My Walk has been long and arduous, showing me God's truth through the very nature of my life. I understand what the Bible teaches but have learned my lessons from hearing God directly as he guides me along.

I'm getting off-topic now. Let me get this debate firmly off by saying I think the Earth is billions of years old. Dinosaurs came and went long before us; humanity is relatively new. We evolved from primates, but our origin is not as important as our destination.

[Gil-Estel]

I know Dain that it takes faith for accepting Evolution just as much as for the bible. But then again, science is also about accepting what is most likely. I cannot prove that there is no mouse in my house at this very moment, but with my lethal cats around it is not very likely that there are mice anywhere in the mansion.

[menace64]

I know Dain that it takes faith for accepting Evolution just as much as for the bible. But then again, science is also about accepting what is most likely.

What is 'most likely' depends entirely on an individual's perspective. For me, it is far more likely that a supreme being set the universe into motion than for the universe to simply "have been" forever.

[Gil-Estel]

to scientists, it is not. What is more likely is just a matter statistics. If I have 2 dices I will say that if I throw a 100 times, I will have thrown 7 the most. Another person can challenge me, by saying I will not. Scientists will agree with me though.

[SomeRandomDude]

Hey. My comment about being a Christian Young-Earth Creationist got deleted!

To open up my case, I dig out a thread from "ye olde CC board."

http://lotrtcgwiki.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=5744

And that's enough for me.

[Elessar's Socks]

I accept the theory of evolution, yes. Thought I was the only one here who does. You guys sure could've taken some load off my back in the last debate.

[Pepin The Breve]

   As a biologist, studying this thing for more than 5 years i say that i´m evolutionist.
   
   Like Dain said you cannot prove the existence (o the non-existence) of an almighty entity, but when you study evolution and all his dinamycs and concept involved deeply as i had you realise that evolution really does a lot of sense and can even be proved! Natural Evolution is one of the most solid theory i have seen at Biology.

  Like i said before i respect other beliefs, whatever they are, but i must say that Evolution and natural selection seems must more logic for me than creacionism. You really can seal the question giving an ultimate proof of each. Scince can be kind of "religion belief" but there is something different about it: his knowloge can be extrapolated to  it´s distinct areas and things like a precision spaceship or even a new biologic species can be done associating it´s knowloge. I´m not saying that all things done by sciene are good (No way!) and things done by religion are bad or useless (in fact sometimes can be the opposite) but is clear to me that scince has direct aplication in our "real" world.

   I will not stick with it, but that´s what i think.

   Cheers.

 

[sickofpalantirs]

oh and just a comment something dinosaur like is mentioned in the bible menace, in job the behemoth and the leviathan.

As for me, I haven't done enough study to check, and all the sources are biased in the end I go with the whole does it matter argument and keep my tongue to myself.

[Gate Troll]

but is clear to me that scince has direct aplication in our "real" world.

What so called 'creationists' believe is science. The way you seem to view it is that evolution is 'real' science and 'creationism' is religious nonsense with no real application in the 'real' world. You see it as religion vs science.
No, it is scientific theory vs scientific theory.   

Now I have a question for anyone who hold the Theory of Evolution as fact. (1) How do you believe life originated, and (2) What is your view on science?

[Elrohir]

Every day, I get new vocabulary!
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evo·lu·tion·ist
noun
   a person who accepts the principles of biological evolution
   a person who believes in the possibility of political and social progress by gradual, peaceful steps
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Yes, I accept the principles of biological evolution - but, as biologist, I have to say: men do not come from monkeys. They are relatives, but seen as cousins - not as direct ancestors!

If the bible speaks about "days" in genesis - it means "day", or any other unit for time (eg: a billion of years) in its original language (just a case of Interpretation in translation in germanic languages!)! In addition, the bible shows us the right order of creating the world - prooved by science!

You see, there is no problem to believe in both, which does not mean it is truth! For example: Big Bang! It could not have ever been (endless energie released in endless little time - that is, as far as humans know, impossible!), inspite of this, nearly every one believe in this theory!

[Pepin The Breve]

   In fact Big bang it´s not infinite energy..the astrophysic field have calcaleted it (about 10 elevated at 31 J i think, but the number could be wrong).

   Yes evolution normaly deal with "common ancestor" not "direct relatives".

   Creacionism could be a theory but it´s not called scince since most of it´s principles can´t be tested.

   Life originated by chance. My goal is not to describe all theories of origin of life on earth but if you research and understand some principles of chemistry and physcis makes a lot of sense.

   Yes, you can belive in evolution and in the existence of some superior entity, it´s up to you at which level (escale) you switch one explanation for the other.