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Author Topic: Orc Butchery -- when does a minion kill vs a card?  (Read 149 times)

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November 24, 2020, 06:27:53 PM
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Steino

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Orc Butchery -- when does a minion kill vs a card?
« on: November 24, 2020, 06:27:53 PM »
I've been playing around with Orc Butchery, which says "Response: If a companion is killed by a [Sauron] Orc, the Free Peoples player must discard 3 cards from the top of his draw deck for each card in the dead pile."

My question: What counts as "killed by a [Sauron] Orc"?

Clearly these do count:
  • Overwhelming in a skirmish
  • Winning in a skirmish and dealing the final wound
  • Wounding by means of the [Sauron] Orc's game text (e.g. Orc Hunters or Orc Slayer)
But what about these?
In each of these cases, the killing of the companion wouldn't happen without the [Sauron] Orc, and yet the source of the killing could arguably be the event card, not the Orc.

Also interesting is that the text of Orc Butchery is distinct from cards like Drawn to Its Power, which says, "Each time a Nazgul kills a companion in a skirmish..." clearly limiting the card to triggering during a skirmish. (This card was later clarified in the Shadows re-print to say, "Each time a companion is killed in a skirmish involving a Nazgul, add a burden.")

Is there a clarification for Orc Butchery that I'm missing?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 06:41:51 PM by Steino »

November 25, 2020, 05:47:53 AM
Reply #1

Phallen Cassidy

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Re: Orc Butchery -- when does a minion kill vs a card?
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2020, 05:47:53 AM »
For your three questions, that's answered under "Effect" in the Comprehensive Rules:
Quote
The source of an effect is the card on which that effect is printed. Even though a card like an event may require a minion to exert to pay its cost, the source of that effect is the event card and not the minion.
So that answers that. And it makes sense when you think about it, since a cost such as exerting a character is just as important (and secondary) to the event as removing twilight or paying any other cost.

Now, I'm fairly certain that if Orc Patrol discards The Saga of Elendil from an exhausted companion it doesn't count as the Orc killing the companion either -- it would be the loss of vitality from losing Saga that kills the companion rather than the condition discarding itself. I think there's always a direct cause for things rather than indirect ones.

November 25, 2020, 08:17:39 AM
Reply #2

Steino

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Re: Orc Butchery -- when does a minion kill vs a card?
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2020, 08:17:39 AM »
Thanks, Phallen. Not sure how I missed that when I looked at the rulebook!