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November 22, 2020, 06:50:45 AM
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menace64

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Fill in the Blank Season 2: Lords #4
« on: November 22, 2020, 06:50:45 AM »
Welcome to Fill in the Blank Season 2: Lords!

Lords is a Movie-block set - meaning no 11+ cultures, and [Wraith] is Ringwraith, not Wraith. Shadows-era sites are acceptable.

Each week I'll post the collector's information for one of the cards in the set's cardlist. Contestants are free to create whatever card they see fit for that slot in the card-list, keeping in mind the card titles of previously-victorious cards. As the contest progresses, the cardlist will become more and more defined, guiding the contestants' choices. Not every card has to fit the theme, of course, but it's something to keep in mind when coming up with submissions.

To become a contestant, you gotta do three things: PM me your card submission for the active round; Vote on the last round's submissions; and leave a Comment in the current round describing your vote (yes you can vote for yourself), along with any card reviews you wish to provide. (Any unclaimed votes are subject to invalidation!)

By constraining card submissions to PMs, I hope to buff some of the excitement each week, as well as develop a private line of communication with each contestant in order to help eliminate 8-liners and other basic formatting errors that typically kill a submission before it even makes it to a vote. This should also make each newly-posted round more exciting!

In case of a tie: (and note that I've already forgotten to check for a tied-vote on Thursday, so this is yet to be properly tested. My bad!)
  • At first light on the fifth day of each round (Thursday), if two or more submissions are tied for the win, I will reset the votes and remove all losing submissions from the voting pool. During this second round of votes, you will still need to announce your vote.
  • On the last day of each round (Saturday), if we're somehow back into a tiebreaker situation, the winner of the previous round (The Tiecider) will step in to settle things once and for all.
  • (And if that person isn't available, I'll roll for it.)

If you every have any questions about what to do or who to do it to, please don't hesitate to ask!


Last week's winner...
Congrats to azogsbane for pulling off the rare double-win off of round 1! Bilbo, Translator of Elvish Verse takes the 26th Slot! That's two in a row for AB - we gotta step up our game, boys!  :lol:


Last week's entries to pick from for Card #7...

...Are to be found in the first reply in this thread! This will (hopefully) make it easier for those on mobile devices to participate! \:D/


This week's contest is...

Card #13!

This week's submission must be:
  • A [Gondor] card
  • An [Isengard] card (before Saruman, Lord of Windustry)
I cannot in good conscience allow [Gandalf] or [Gollum] to compete this week, since in-so doing we would throttle [Gondor].


Closing Date: November 28th!


:cheers: LORDS Card List  :cheers:
Number - Name - (Culture • Type) - Contestant - Week It Won
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7. SUBJECT OF THIS WEEK'S VOTE
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13. IN CREATION THIS WEEK
14.
15. •Saruman, Lord of Industry ([Isengard] • Minion) - azogsbane - 1
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.
21.
22.
23.
24.
25.
26. •Bilbo, Translator of Elvish Verse ([Shire] • Ally) - azogsbane - 2
27.
28.
29.
30.


I've also received some feedback that contestants would prefer the Misadventure Deck to return, and maybe even use placement on that list to determine who breaks ties on subsequent rounds. I'm personally all for this - lemme know what you think! If we want to do this, I'll go back and scoop-up our previous ties and retroactively include them in next week's post!

Thank you Durin's Heir!

November 22, 2020, 06:57:45 AM
Reply #1

menace64

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Re: Fill in the Blank Season 2: Lords #4
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2020, 06:57:45 AM »
Last week's entries to pick from for Card #7...

Quote from: Entry #1
[2] •Gimli, Dwarven Lord [Dwarven]
Companion • Dwarf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 3
Signet: Frodo
For each [Dwarven] companion you can spot, Gimli is strength +1 and damage +1.
"'Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.'"

Quote from: Entry #2
[2] Elven Rangers [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 9
Vitality: 2
Archer. Ranger. To play, exert Elrond.
When you play this companion, you may reveal the top card from up to 2 decks.
Discard this companion at the end of the regroup phase.
"'Some of the scouts have been sent out already. More will go tomorrow.'"
Designer's notes: The revelation ability would work with both draw decks and adventure decks, enabling you to "scout ahead" by any metric you choose. This companion is solid, but you can't take it with you.

Quote from: Entry #3
[1]The Halls of Mandos [Elven]
Event • Response
Tale. If your Elf is killed, do not remove threats from your dead pile. You may place this event on top of or beneath your draw deck to draw a card.
"Whereas the Elves remain until the end of days, and their love of the Earth and all the world is more single and more poignant therefore..."
Designer's notes: Removing threats upon death causes threat wound placement: "When a companion or ally is killed and that card is placed in the dead pile, the Free Peoples player counts the number of threats on the dead pile and then removes them. Then the Free Peoples player must assign a number of wounds equal to the number of threats removed to his companions in any way he wishes.

Quote from: Entry #4
[4] •Thranduil, Son of Oropher [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 9
Vitality: 4
Each time you assign another Elf with twilight cost 3 or more, remove from the game 4 [Elven] cards in your discard pile.
Skirmish: Play an [Elven] event or weapon to wound a minion skirmishing Thranduil.
"...they were independent, and not disposed to place themselves under the supreme command of Gil-galad."
Designer's notes: Thranduil doesn't ask for permission (no spot requirement) nor does share the spotlight willfully with other Elven Lords (all of which have a cost of [3]+, except Celeborn with whom he managed to agree in the end). So that brings the perfect excuse to give him a text to undermine Cirdan's resources big time (and Gil-galad HKotN's, in later formats). That being said, he's truly a killing machine and very able to lead a host of well-armed smaller Elves in battle (like Naith elves full of Longbows, Swords and skirmish events).

Quote from: Entry #5
[4] •Beorn, Skin Changer [Gandalf]
Companion • Man
Strength: 0
Vitality: 1
Signet: Gandalf
Damage +2. When you play Beorn, you may stack a minion from hand on him.
Beorn gains the strength and vitality of any minion stacked on him.
If Beorn kills a minion in a skirmish, stack that minion on Beorn and discard any other minions stacked on him.
Designer's notes: You could power him up by giving him Sauron, but I you use him to squash a goblin Runner (or worse, Gollum, Hopeless), he won't be much further use. He actually gets weaker every time, given that there are no weapons or other permeant buffs for him in Movie, so would be very vulnerable to self assigning weak minions, such as through SotE or Many Riddles. To save space, I haven't forbidden you to start him, but that would be silly as he can't stack a minion.

Quote from: Entry #6
(0) Power to Order All Things [Gandalf]
Event • Fellowship
Spot 2 Wizards and add [X] to reveal the top X cards from your draw deck. Replace those cards in alphabetical order.
"‘"This then is one choice before you, before us. We may join with that Power. It would be wise, Gandalf. There is hope that way."'"
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 08:45:30 PM by menace64 »

November 22, 2020, 07:03:47 AM
Reply #2

menace64

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Re: Fill in the Blank Season 2: Lords #4
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2020, 07:03:47 AM »
This week is a monster of a showing!

As you start to pick and prod at these submissions, I want you to think about this experience as-if you were able to change your vote as the week progresses. It's an option we haven't implemented in a contest before (in the history of CC through TLHH, as far as I'm aware) but it might make for more interactive voting reviews.

November 22, 2020, 03:41:01 PM
Reply #3

Legion

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Re: Fill in the Blank Season 2: Lords #4
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2020, 03:41:01 PM »
Quote from: Entry #1
[2] •Gimli, Dwarven Lord [Dwarven]
Companion • Dwarf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 3
Signet: Frodo
For each [Dwarven] companion you can spot, Gimli is strength +1 and damage +1.
"'Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.'"

I like the idea here. Gimli will always be hard to design movie format: there are two that you need to out niche: BoG and Feared Axeman. So I guess I that this does something different by focusing on strength. He's still not more powerful than Durin. If it were +1 for each elf companion, I'd love it, but this is a good card.

Quote from: Entry #2
[2] Elven Rangers [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 9
Vitality: 2
Archer. Ranger. To play, exert Elrond.
When you play this companion, you may reveal the top card from up to 2 decks.
Discard this companion at the end of the regroup phase.
"'Some of the scouts have been sent out already. More will go tomorrow.'"
Designer's notes: The revelation ability would work with both draw decks and adventure decks, enabling you to "scout ahead" by any metric you choose. This companion is solid, but you can't take it with you.

There's a lot going on here. Does scouting the site work? Anyway, I really like it! Combos nicely with Life of the Eldar, and not a bad shout for Ancient Blade. Exerting Elrond is not an insignificant cost, however. I'm just not sure how it would justify its spot in a deck. I need to think about this more.

Quote from: Entry #3
[1]The Halls of Mandos [Elven]
Event • Response
Tale. If your Elf is killed, do not remove threats from your dead pile. You may place this event on top of or beneath your draw deck to draw a card.
"Whereas the Elves remain until the end of days, and their love of the Earth and all the world is more single and more poignant therefore..."
Designer's notes: Removing threats upon death causes threat wound placement: "When a companion or ally is killed and that card is placed in the dead pile, the Free Peoples player counts the number of threats on the dead pile and then removes them. Then the Free Peoples player must assign a number of wounds equal to the number of threats removed to his companions in any way he wishes.

I'm afraid that with Red Book of Westmarch, this card is totally broken: get an elf killed to draw your deck. I'd then play 4 Last Throw and use Fearless Marksman to waltz to the finish.

Quote from: Entry #4
[4] •Thranduil, Son of Oropher [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 9
Vitality: 4
Each time you assign another Elf with twilight cost 3 or more, remove from the game 4 [Elven] cards in your discard pile.
Skirmish: Play an [Elven] event or weapon to wound a minion skirmishing Thranduil.
"...they were independent, and not disposed to place themselves under the supreme command of Gil-galad."
Designer's notes: Thranduil doesn't ask for permission (no spot requirement) nor does share the spotlight willfully with other Elven Lords (all of which have a cost of [3]+, except Celeborn with whom he managed to agree in the end). So that brings the perfect excuse to give him a text to undermine Cirdan's resources big time (and Gil-galad HKotN's, in later formats). That being said, he's truly a killing machine and very able to lead a host of well-armed smaller Elves in battle (like Naith elves full of Longbows, Swords and skirmish events).

I think this needs spotting requirements. I think this guy would actually rock in a Rohan deck. You say he shouldn't get on with other elves, but he really shouldn't get on with men.

Actually, he may be too strong for Gondor, too. I'd play 4 Knife of the Galadhrim for my Aragorn now. They're 2 wounds a pop, and he'll boost Last Alliance. Does Elf Archery with Aragorn need the buff? It's already one of the stronger Movie fellowships.

With a spotting requirement, I think he'd be quite good, especially in an Archery deck (Sword wall would be excellent here)


Quote from: Entry #5
[4] •Beorn, Skin Changer [Gandalf]
Companion • Man
Strength: 0
Vitality: 1
Signet: Gandalf
Damage +2. When you play Beorn, you may stack a minion from hand on him.
Beorn gains the strength and vitality of any minion stacked on him.
If Beorn kills a minion in a skirmish, stack that minion on Beorn and discard any other minions stacked on him.
Designer's notes: You could power him up by giving him Sauron, but I you use him to squash a goblin Runner (or worse, Gollum, Hopeless), he won't be much further use. He actually gets weaker every time, given that there are no weapons or other permeant buffs for him in Movie, so would be very vulnerable to self assigning weak minions, such as through SotE or Many Riddles. To save space, I haven't forbidden you to start him, but that would be silly as he can't stack a minion.

This card is strange, but is interesting. It would need support, or would quickly run out of steam: do you stack Sauron and kill Ulaire Nertea, meaning you are stuck losing to every other Nazgul, or wait until the Witch King shows. It could make TMayOD viable in Movie, as any support would make it so much better.

Quote from: Entry #6
(0) Power to Order All Things [Gandalf]
Event • Fellowship
Spot 2 Wizards and add [X] to reveal the top X cards from your draw deck. Replace those cards in alphabetical order.
"‘"This then is one choice before you, before us. We may join with that Power. It would be wise, Gandalf. There is hope that way."'"

When I first saw this, I laughed. It just was funny. But without a limit, it's actually completely broken. Burn a Hourn turn 1 to get this and Radagast, then add 50 to order your deck. Now you can almost certainly set up a shadow kill (you should survive site 2-chances are they won't have enough minions to kill outright). First thought is to only play this once you have Ted Sandyman, then order so all your 'Goblin xxxx' are conveniently right after 'Fool of a Took'. I'm sure you could pull a fellowship win, or set up LttG, too.

Yes. You could definitely do a LttG hit at site 2. 4x LttG, 1 Gollum, DaD, and 3 Goblins (1 scrabbler, 2 runners), 22 'Orc xxxx' and make sure your other FP cards come after 'O'. Saved from the Fire does this nicely. Use Poor Creature to discard your hand so you draw into the 8 above. Requires 7 twilight (5 at site 3 and 3 from site 4) and boom! 12 burdens if they can't exhaust their RB in the Fellowship Phase.

If it had a limit (say 8), I would have seriously considered it.


I'm going to hold off voting until I've made up my mind. It's probably between Gimli (though being card #7 does hold him back a lot to me: I don't want to have 5 Dunland cards in the limited set. Plus I like Gandalf, and we got precious little for him last time), Thranduil (though I think it should spot least two elves to play) or Beorn (totally off the wall). And I'm going to think hard about how I could make Elven Rangers work. If I can, they're right back in the running. I like the idea of the other two cards, but unfortunately, there are some interactions that make them too abusable.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 05:46:48 PM by Legion »

November 22, 2020, 08:48:49 PM
Reply #4

menace64

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Re: Fill in the Blank Season 2: Lords #4
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2020, 08:48:49 PM »
Let's see... gonna pick a color here...

Maroon? Yeah sure.

Quote from: Entry #1
[2] •Gimli, Dwarven Lord [Dwarven]
Companion • Dwarf
Strength: 5
Vitality: 3
Signet: Frodo
For each [Dwarven] companion you can spot, Gimli is strength +1 and damage +1.
"'Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens.'"

I'm immediately drawn to other Dwarves bearing this subtitle: specifically, Sindri and Uri, the closest Dwarves in terms of stats. Gimli's the only one with a signet which is a neat distinction to have among Lords of Durin. Each of the other Reflections Dwarves have access to strength and/or damage bonuses, but none of them care about what the others are doing. Gimli gets his strength from his fellowship.

Quote from: Entry #2
[2] Elven Rangers [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 9
Vitality: 2
Archer. Ranger. To play, exert Elrond.
When you play this companion, you may reveal the top card from up to 2 decks.
Discard this companion at the end of the regroup phase.
"'Some of the scouts have been sent out already. More will go tomorrow.'"
Designer's notes: The revelation ability would work with both draw decks and adventure decks, enabling you to "scout ahead" by any metric you choose. This companion is solid, but you can't take it with you.

My first thought is that [2] for a 9/2 Archer Ranger is too good at unique and hilarious at 4 copies. Play Elrond after Anduin Confluence, drop a few Rangers, double for a win. Is making the FP player use Elrond's vitality for something other than card-draw or for healing offset by this card not being potentially more problematic?

Are there other companions that self-discard? A quick search didn't turn up anything.


Quote from: Entry #3
[1]The Halls of Mandos [Elven]
Event • Response
Tale. If your Elf is killed, do not remove threats from your dead pile. You may place this event on top of or beneath your draw deck to draw a card.
"Whereas the Elves remain until the end of days, and their love of the Earth and all the world is more single and more poignant therefore..."
Designer's notes: Removing threats upon death causes threat wound placement: "When a companion or ally is killed and that card is placed in the dead pile, the Free Peoples player counts the number of threats on the dead pile and then removes them. Then the Free Peoples player must assign a number of wounds equal to the number of threats removed to his companions in any way he wishes.

I'm interested in the timing rules here. Regarding Red Book of Westmarch's card draw: would the draw happen as soon as you play Halls of Mandos; or would the draw happen after Halls of Mandos resolves? If the former, yes this card is busted by the Book, and if the latter, then I think this merely spawns an infinite loop. (I could be wrong in both cases.)

Quote from: Entry #4
[4] •Thranduil, Son of Oropher [Elven]
Companion • Elf
Strength: 9
Vitality: 4
Each time you assign another Elf with twilight cost 3 or more, remove from the game 4 [Elven] cards in your discard pile.
Skirmish: Play an [Elven] event or weapon to wound a minion skirmishing Thranduil.
"...they were independent, and not disposed to place themselves under the supreme command of Gil-galad."
Designer's notes: Thranduil doesn't ask for permission (no spot requirement) nor does share the spotlight willfully with other Elven Lords (all of which have a cost of [3]+, except Celeborn with whom he managed to agree in the end). So that brings the perfect excuse to give him a text to undermine Cirdan's resources big time (and Gil-galad HKotN's, in later formats). That being said, he's truly a killing machine and very able to lead a host of well-armed smaller Elves in battle (like Naith elves full of Longbows, Swords and skirmish events).

Another entry in the "empower something else for Elves to do in order to balance [Elven]" idea! Interesting! The skirmish ability feels very [Rohan] to me, and pushed [Rohan]. It's such a tough line to draw though: good enough to warrant sacrificing Cirdan, but limited enough not to merely create a second Cirdan. I'd like this card more if the skirmish ability was just "Skirmish: Play a weapon on Thranduil." and maybe a cheeky "(or mount)" in there for the flavor-pinch... but that ability isn't good enough to leave Cirdan in the binder.

(Thranduil is now PISSED that I made this conversation about Cirdan instead of, well, Thranduil. :lol:)


Quote from: Entry #5
[4] •Beorn, Skin Changer [Gandalf]
Companion • Man
Strength: 0
Vitality: 1
Signet: Gandalf
Damage +2. When you play Beorn, you may stack a minion from hand on him.
Beorn gains the strength and vitality of any minion stacked on him.
If Beorn kills a minion in a skirmish, stack that minion on Beorn and discard any other minions stacked on him.
Designer's notes: You could power him up by giving him Sauron, but I you use him to squash a goblin Runner (or worse, Gollum, Hopeless), he won't be much further use. He actually gets weaker every time, given that there are no weapons or other permeant buffs for him in Movie, so would be very vulnerable to self assigning weak minions, such as through SotE or Many Riddles. To save space, I haven't forbidden you to start him, but that would be silly as he can't stack a minion.

I had to stare at this card for a long time. I understand how it works, but something feels... off about it. And then it hit me: in neither form of Beorn does he have a Strength of 0 or a Vitality of 1. I still like the mechanics and hope to see Beorn again some time! But I think Beorn deserves a healthy spread of base stats. The static Damage +2 I feel actually works against Beorn over-all, since this makes him far more likely to kill the minion he's fighting, thus becoming weaker on the transfer.

Quote from: Entry #6
(0) Power to Order All Things [Gandalf]
Event • Fellowship
Spot 2 Wizards and add [X] to reveal the top X cards from your draw deck. Replace those cards in alphabetical order.
"‘"This then is one choice before you, before us. We may join with that Power. It would be wise, Gandalf. There is hope that way."'"

Got a good lol out of me. Automatic imaginary-points are awarded for submitting an Event card!

------

Now, lemme check how these might affect the cardlist. #7 would be the home. Gimli at #7 puts a HEAVY emphasis on either just Dwarves or both Dwarves and Dunland. Elven Rangers and Halls of Mandos both feel middle-of-the-road, allowing no less than 6 card slots of [Dwarven] (and maybe [Dunland] snipes a slot?); and no less than 7 cards for [Gandalf], [Gollum], and [Gondor]. Thranduil is slightly less-nice to the Dwarves, as his placement at #7 forces most other [Elven] card entries to land above him: Arwen, Celeborn, Elrond, Galadriel, Glorfindel, Legolas... if those characters show up, they'll all be poking up into potentially-[Dwarven] territory! Beorn is a solid stake in the ground. This would likely result in 3 cards for [Dwarven] and 3 cards for [Elven], a clean and fair solution to a longstanding problem. Ordering of All Things presents more questions than it answers.

I was leaning towards Gimli this week, but the skew is too sharp. My next question to myself is: Are my grievances with Beorn heavier than its idealized placement in the cardlist? 0 Strength and 1 Vitality for Beorn + is likely to get weaker with each subsequent skirmish... I dunno. That's tough. Halls of Mandos is my pick at this stage, but it's hanging on the resolution of a fine timing issue. Beorn might be my #2 at the moment.

« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 08:52:15 PM by menace64 »

November 23, 2020, 02:29:13 AM
Reply #5

Legion

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Re: Fill in the Blank Season 2: Lords #4
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2020, 02:29:13 AM »
Quote from: Entry #3
[1]The Halls of Mandos [Elven]
Event • Response
Tale. If your Elf is killed, do not remove threats from your dead pile. You may place this event on top of or beneath your draw deck to draw a card.
"Whereas the Elves remain until the end of days, and their love of the Earth and all the world is more single and more poignant therefore..."
Designer's notes: Removing threats upon death causes threat wound placement: "When a companion or ally is killed and that card is placed in the dead pile, the Free Peoples player counts the number of threats on the dead pile and then removes them. Then the Free Peoples player must assign a number of wounds equal to the number of threats removed to his companions in any way he wishes.

I'm interested in the timing rules here. Regarding Red Book of Westmarch's card draw: would the draw happen as soon as you play Halls of Mandos; or would the draw happen after Halls of Mandos resolves? If the former, yes this card is busted by the Book, and if the latter, then I think this merely spawns an infinite loop. (I could be wrong in both cases.)

The card is already an infinite as it can redraw itself (and so replay itself). This would be a problem with SotBR, removing every burden (oddly you probably would want to take the threat wounds in this case, have them as burdens and then remove them). However, with Red Book of Westmarch, it can redraw itself plus one from the book (I believe it would work that the book activates first, and then it puts itself on the deck and redraws itself).

And yes, it can trigger itself every time: there's no limit to how many responses can be played.

November 24, 2020, 02:27:13 AM
Reply #6

Cw0rk

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Re: Fill in the Blank Season 2: Lords #4
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2020, 02:27:13 AM »
Lots of interesting stuff here. Too bad that the two events are likely to be broken, as you guys mentioned earlier.

This week, my vote goes to Elven Rangers. I like this idea of a strong companion that gets discarded at the end of the turn.  Wasn't too sure at first with the exert Elrond requirement, but after all... the set is called Lords. Oh and @menace64... you can't double move with them as they get discarded at the end of the regroup phase, not end of turn.

I almost voted for Beorn but I'm quite picky with cards not having a lore. Just a tip if you want to get my vote next time ;)

November 25, 2020, 07:33:41 AM
Reply #7

JamesCB

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Re: Fill in the Blank Season 2: Lords #4
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2020, 07:33:41 AM »
My vote goes to Beorn this week. I like the uniqueness, and think it would certainly work very well in some decks.
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November 25, 2020, 07:25:26 PM
Reply #8

menace64

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Re: Fill in the Blank Season 2: Lords #4
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2020, 07:25:26 PM »
Thought about it more. My vote goes to Elven Rangers.